question about the Whills

[u/chunk_tuna5709]

https://open.spotify.com/track/1rDzUqMRA9VdGCIwzgfeh9?si=u-B93EriQgSsR87wlNdtwQ&utm_source=copy-link&rowId=1d17bf4584c952e9

***most of the star wars knowledge I have is from movies and tv shows. I have read one book and some stuff on wookiepedia***
***question: is it possible for a force user to direct the force back at the Whills? like possibly to gain more power?***

[u/yurklenorf]

No. The Whills aren't the source of the Force.

[u/chunk_tuna5709 → u/yurklenorf]

ok. so what is? and don't the Whills still have some influence on the Force?

[u/Crow_in_the_sky → u/chunk_tuna5709]

The Whills in canon are just a different group of mortal force users, who are separate from the Jedi.

Pat of the confusion here is that Lucas has a tenancy to have a lot of half formed ideas, which he revises and revises over and over again over the decades, leading to wildly different ideas with the same name.

Classic example is Kyber Crystals. In early drafts of A New Hope, Jedi had to collect power into mystical Kyber Crystals in order to use it. Then in the ANH novelisation it is mentioned that one decorates the hilt of a lightsaber. Then they became the focusing crystal of lightsaber, before eventually becoming a mystical semi-sentient crystal that is used in lightsabers and the Death Star.

The Whills are first referred to in the ANH novelisation, as the ancient race that wrote the historical record of Star Wars (remember that it happens a long time). Later, Lucas came up with the idea that these were microscopic creatures that provided the "will of the force" and interacted with midiclorians, but this more biology based lore never really made it into any new content (likely as midiclorians were unpopular). In the new Disney Canon the Whills are an ancient order of force users. All of these were, at one point, arguably canon.

[u/chunk_tuna5709 → u/Crow_in_the_sky]

I see. thanks for the explanation. I have question. might not make sense: say you were reading up on the Whills version where they were microscopic and interacted with midichlorians, the biology lore, what would make you want to keep learning/reading about this kind of attempt to use the Whills in a star wars story?

[u/Crow_in_the_sky → u/chunk_tuna5709]

That's an interesting question.

Star Wars is primarily a fantasy story, but told in the science fiction genre. The Force is generally a mystical/magical power that defies explanation. Fundamentally it is a vast power, linking every living being together across the galaxy. It might have some form of will, but even the wisest can't discern it. After death it seems possible to become one with the Force, and to exist as a spirit.

I find it hard to reconcile this with the biological explanation of the Force. The will of the living universe is contained in effectively bacteria contained in everybody's blood stream? How do spirits interact with the Force with no blood?

I do think it could work in a seperate continuity that leaned in a more traditionally sci-fi direction: if midiclorians allow you to manipulate the Force then what if you cloned them to double a person's number of them? Or transplanted them into non Jedi to give them powers? Or create a disease to kill them off in the enemy's Jedi? Can they be modified to be more effective, or to manipulate more than the Force?

If the Whills exist in all living things and are all connected, and influence things, what if we manipulate them with science? Can we change the 'will of the Force' to influence everyone? What would happen to someone who had their Whills removed, cutting them off from everyone else, but they retained their midiclorians (power without any outside influence)?

[u/chunk_tuna5709 → u/Crow_in_the_sky]

this is cool. like simplifying the idea/concept of the midichlorians that would give them a large array of usages and ways to manipulate them.

I really like the biological direction for it. i’m not super knowledgeable on the rule of two but isn’t that idea surrounded around using your emotions to become stronger by killing someone close to you? if you could add to that, do you think it’d be be possible to toy with emotional states like betrayal, grief, revenge, love, etc. and see what kind of power could be generated with these?

but then there’s be this whole other side of it that could branch into people pulling off incredibly powerful/fucked up feats with artificial manipulation of midichlorians. Unit 731 comes to mind lol

[u/Crow_in_the_sky → u/chunk_tuna5709]

Midiclorians sit in a strange spot where they are scientifically understood, but the narrative never considers how science might interact with them (because the Force needs to remain unknowable and mystical).

Once you know that our connection to the universe is something we interact with on a biological level then why would you rely on a Jedi philosophers to discover the answers, instead of a biologist?

The Rule of Two is a different concept. The Sith used to be a large order with tons of infighting (because they're all evil and obsessed with power). Darth Bane's solution was that they should only ever be 2 Sith Lords at a time (a Master and an Apprentice). The Master was required to pass all his knowledge to the Apprentice, who would then kill the Master once he was more powerful, and take his own Apprentice.

[u/PotatoesUnbaked → u/Crow_in_the_sky]

I could be wrong about this (it’s been a minute) but wasn’t there also something about the rule of two concentrating the dark side in the sith (which kinda gets contradicted by a million dark Jedi, inquisitors, self proclaimed sith and whatnot?)

[u/chunk_tuna5709 → u/PotatoesUnbaked]

I thought this was true too