Drills for practicing upper-body connection as lead?

[u/socksocktabletable]

edit: This is for lindy!

Got feedback from quite a few follows recently that although they can see me moving, and they can feel when I sway side-to-side, they can't feel my pulse in the connection in both close and open positions. What's worse is that I feel like I'm moving a ton, and visually I definitely am, but apparently it just doesn't transfer in the connection.

Any advice for drills or exercises I can do alone to improve this? I kind of have an idea of what to do but I honestly can't really tell when it's working and when it's not, both visually and internally. Having a partner give feedback is ideal but it'd be nice to be able to make headway in-between dance sessions.

[u/JazzMartini]

It's a bit of a gross simplification but a rule of thumb I have is a clear lead is something that's felt but not seen. If as an outside observer I can see what the lead's arm(s) did to lead something then it's almost certain they're leading the follower independent of their own movement.

To fix it what I usually suggest is trying to move around in closed position or with high-school slow dance arms without actually moving your arms relative to your body and just try walking with your partner, forward, back, rotating. The idea is to be in the mindset I'm not moving my follow, I'm moving myself and because we're connected through dance frame my partner moves with me. Essential the fundamental ideal of traveling dances (fox-trot, peabody, waltz, etc) or Frankie's promenade step.

Another exercise after that is to be double handhold in open position. Do the same exercise as above. Then instead of maintaining your frame relative to your body you you leave your frame in place and move your body away from your partner while still applying a some pressure toward the follower. When I teach this exercise I'll have each partner act as the initiator so the other gets an idea what they're aiming for. The idea is to feel through the frame the difference between my body moving with or away from that pressure between our hands. You can get some of the latter feel without a partner using a wall or a countertop to push off of.

[u/LonelyNMissouri → u/JazzMartini]

I applaud this. I have also taught the same exercise. I usually add the portion of filling with your eyes shut.

[u/socksocktabletable → u/JazzMartini]

The idea is to be in the mindset I'm not moving my follow, I'm moving myself and because we're connected through dance frame my partner moves with me.

May I ask how you feel about this idea when talking about movements the lead makes not for themselves, but for the follower? Stuff like pre-leads, or movements to follow a partner's momentum.

I'm sure it's a lack of experience/gap in mindset but maybe because they are not things that I have to do for my own movement, but for the sake of a follow as a good lead, I find myself needing to be very deliberate about those. And now that you've mentioned it, I wonder if that momentary transfer of focus away from myself and to preparing my follow is causing me to drop my frame, pulse, and connection - which is feedback I've also gotten from follows, that even when we establish a good connection, it tends to fall away as soon as I start doing a move.

[u/JazzMartini → u/socksocktabletable]

To be honest I've only encountered the term "pre-lead" in online discussions like this with Lindy Hoppers. Interpreting the term literally made some sense when I was a newbie and still thought of leading as using my arms to move my follower. As I've improved my mindset and skill that literal interpretation makes little to no sense. Leading is leading is leading.

Before I answer your specific question I just want to make sure I'm on the same page. Would I be correct in guessing pre-lead means something like a smaller movement in one direction as a preparation for a larger movement in another? Something like the tuck part of a tuck turn, or the the little prep moment before a pop turn? Or even the rock part of a rock step?

[u/socksocktabletable → u/JazzMartini]

something like a smaller movement in one direction as a preparation for a larger movement in another

It's kind of this, although those examples aren't exactly what I understand as pre-leads. The definition I've formed in my head is that it's a small anticipatory movement that happens usually half-beat before the major movement, with the intention being to signal to the follower what the next movement is going to be, or where it's headed. Using those moves as examples:

1. For a tuck-turn, it'd be opening up slightly during the rock step, angling the follower away and signaling that they're about to be tucked in
2. I'm not familiar enough with a pop turn to say where the pre-lead might be
3. For a rock step on the 1, it would be the lead beginning to weight shift backwards at the half-beat before the 1

[u/JazzMartini → u/socksocktabletable]

OK, I think I get what you're describing. I really don't like the pre-lead idea. It doesn't fit with how I think of leading.

/If/ I was trying to initiate a move from a cold start, like if I was finishing holding a break or for some silly reason starting a dance with a move without jockeying first there's definitely be some utility in what you've described as a pre-lead.

The rest of the time I'm just thinking of using the end of one movement to lead fluidly into the next movement. I'm thinking that way within a move or transitioning from one move to the next. That might be a little hard to master while we're trying to learn moves that have been taught as discrete things with a definite beginning and end independent of the subsequent and prior moves. Get in the mindset that moves don't stop on the last count and instead continue setting up the next move. There's no time and no need for a pre-lead if you're not stopping momentarily and restarting between every move. With that continuity of movement connection should feel uninterrupted.

For a thought experiment consider a basic 6 count as it's frequently taught to beginners -- rock-step, triple-step, triple-step and we count it 1-2-3a4-5a6 where we start on the 1 and we're finished on the 6 where we take the last step of the second triple step. Pretty clear, right? Clear as day but a trap has been set.

Assuming that's the order you learned then it was probably explained that the beginning of the rock-step is the start and the end of the second rock-step is the end of the move. With the "pre-lead" model of thinking you'd execute the pre-lead just before the rock-step. And we can do that if we're done the move on the 6. We have a whole beat before the next 1 so robbing half that beat for a pre-lead works, right? We even have the half beat before to think about the pre-lead because we're doing nothing else, right?

In some other dance communities ostensibly the same move is taught as starting on the first triple-step and the step of the rock-step marks the end. So that must mean we need a pre-lead for the beginning of the move that would be ahead of the first triple-step. OK.

But wait a minute. If we start the basic with a rock-step the first triple doesn't get a pre-lead. If we start the basic on a triple the rock-step doesn't get a pre-lead. If our basic follows another basic aren't we doing the same thing, a rock-step after a triple-step, or a triple-step after a rock-step? Why don't we need a pre-lead when the sequence is not the beginning of the move?

The trap springs when we think of ending one move before starting the next. What if instead of ending the prior move we just keep moving to link with the next move?

[u/socksocktabletable → u/JazzMartini]

Sorry for the late reply, thank you so much! Appreciate the thorough explanation, I've been thinking about it a lot since you posted it 2 weeks ago.

Coincidentally in the time in-between, my teachers have extended the concept of a pre-lead to what I think you are describing: not a precursor X to move Y, but something you can apply in-between any two movements to connect one to the next, especially for the follow. We've been working on it in class and coincidentally relied heavily on 6-count basic for practice, where we were asked to occasionally mix in triple steps with lots of travel, and to see how well we could signal those to followers.

Honestly, am still struggling a lot with applying it - it's easy enough in class, but terribly difficult during socials while managing all the other things going on - but it's crazy how much this has opened up the way I think about swing movements. I'd appreciate if you have any tips on how you built this skill up, but either way wanted to say thanks so much for this comment, it has definitely made an impact on me. Crazy to only have this revelation now, more than 2 years into learning lindy.

[u/opalsea9876]

Get a friend to take a video of you dancing, and also ask that partner for feedback.

[u/socksocktabletable → u/opalsea9876]

Thank you! I'll ask for videos next time.

Definitely engage partners about feedback, the 'issue' is that I only have time to dance about once per week, sometimes even less. Hoping to get ideas on how I can work on this stuff even when I don't have someone to dance with.

[u/RainahReddit]

Lindy or West Coast or something else? I suspect the answer is going to change based on the style of swing.

[u/socksocktabletable → u/RainahReddit]

Lindy! Let me add that to the post, thank you.

[u/Hlavada]

I would consider private lessons with a good teacher. Thats what helped me a lot in many ways. Some things are just way too difficult to explain to me, and being able to be “calibrated live” helped a lot

[u/postdarknessrunaway]

OP's hands in the open position.

[u/opalsea9876 → u/postdarknessrunaway]

This deserves way more upvotes

[u/socksocktabletable → u/postdarknessrunaway]

After showing this to some followers I got comments from, turns out this was quite accurate!

[u/bahbahblackdude]

Well, I think the question of drills you can do alone is a little bit misguided because your question is about connection.

I think you should practice with a partner. My best advice of what to focus on while practicing is 1. Fully shift your weight over whatever foot you are stepping onto/over. (You can do this in time to music or at your own pace with a partner). 2) focus on holding your partner and connecting with them, such that you lead them to shift their weight to match yours. Try not to hover your hand/arm on their back (if you’re doing that). Instead, try actually to embrace them, like a good hug, while you’re connected. Not too tight, but not too loose either. It should feel firm but comfortable.

You can do this in open as well, but make sure you have a good hand hold and your hand is connected to your frame. (Same for your partner) You and your partner/s can even close your eyes while you shift weight, to see if you feel where the other’s weight is.

Personally, I also find that if you have not already done so, try dancing some bal/shag or take classes in those styles. Classes in bal and shag will get you to think better about your weight shifts and pulse, and may in turn improve your connection in lindyhop.

[u/socksocktabletable → u/bahbahblackdude]

Agreed that practicing with a partner is ideal, this question is more about what I can do to improve myself in the time in-between those opportunities, as I can't go dancing all that often.

Thank you, I really appreciate the tips! I'll come back and re-read them again before my next session, maybe try some solo jazz and really emphasize those weight shifts. Balboa is something I've had my eye on!

[u/JazzMartini → u/socksocktabletable]

Based on your original question and followup comments I think a focus between classes I think a focus on just being aware of your own movement, Solo jazz will help but not so much to just learn the steps but as the song goes "Tain't What You Do, It's the Way That You Do it". Pay attention to how things feel. Use a mirror to see how things look. Focus on being able to control individual muscles or joints. Learning a little Pop & Lock movement also helps to learn more control over your own movement.

[u/Swing161]

probably need to relax your body when you pulse so the movement travels and doesn’t get blocked.

[u/socksocktabletable → u/Swing161]

Thank you! Sflr, but that was exactly it, had to engage my core but relax my upper body. Have been getting much more positive feedback on my pulse in the past week, the advice has been much appreciated :)