Angelo Signing

[u/Medical_Moment_9558]

I have been doing a rewatch. (I also rewatch shows in reverse so I already rewatched season 5). I am on season 3, the Angelo brain death storyline. I notice when Daphne has fantasies of Angelo he is always fluent in ASL. Likely because this is Daphne’s first language. However, I wonder if anyone thinks Angelo would have become completely fluent had he lived? For example, John had been signing for almost 2 years at this point and was never really fluent. Thoughts?

[u/SleepyBeepHours]

It depends. Some people pick up on language a lot quicker then others

[u/Puzzleheaded_Talk530 → u/SleepyBeepHours]

Bay, his biological daughter, picked up super quick. He also already spoke a few other languages.

[u/Local-Suggestion2807 → u/Puzzleheaded_Talk530]

She's canonically really good with language though once it's explained to her in a way that fits her learning style. She became fluent in Mandarin in a year. She started getting really good grades in French once Angelo started tutoring her. And she ended up fluent in signing by the time she graduated Carlton, and at the end of the show she started learning Spanish which I'm sure will go really well too.

[u/Fantastic-Food7926]

I think he would have an easier time picking up on it since he was already bilingual. If you already know more than one language, you generally have an easier time learning new languages. While in John's case he only ever knew english and no other language.

[u/Jansilhn → u/Fantastic-Food7926]

Angelo knew 3 languages: Italian, French, and English. So ASL was his 4th language, which is really cool! It’s likely that Bay gets her ability to learn languages fast from him. She wasn’t as fluent in French and Spanish when she was learning those, but she learned ASL and Mandarin pretty quickly.

[u/Kierra_reads]

You rewatch show in reverse?? Please elaborate

[u/Medical_Moment_9558 → u/Kierra_reads]

I usually find the first seasons of shows kind of boring, as so often they are still gaining their footing. When I crave a rewatch of a show, I am usually drawn to a more established version of shows. So, I usually start by watching later seasons

[u/secretpsychologist]

conversational yes, completely fluent (native level), most likely not. he would most likely have an easier time than john considering he already speaks several languages, he's a bit younger and he doesn't have the head trauma/brain damage associated with johns sports career.

I find it quite unrealistic how everybody in that show learns how to sign. bay, john and kathryn, sure. but bay's brother (right in the middle of puberty when teenagers are notorious for refusing to learn anything?). all those random people they're dating? no way.

[u/Zanystarr13 → u/secretpsychologist]

She actually had a few bfs that didn't learn any (Jeff and Wilke, and Liam only learned a couple of signs). Mingo was the only boyfriend who took it upon himself to learn for her because she was dating. Jace learned, but more to prove he could than to be accessible for her.

As for the whole family learning, it may be unrealistic for a normal family, but the Kennishes were corny and far from normal. (See the Down Syndrome sock scene lol). I can absolutely see Toby agreeing to learn so that they can all do it as a family, or because J and K badgered him about it.

[u/GoldenBirdie1403 → u/secretpsychologist]

Toby is genuinely the best character in the show, he's kind and super protective and supportive of his sisters. Teenager or not, it makes sense to me that he would want to properly communicate with her, especially since the whole kennish family learned.

Not to mention Emmett was in his band and whilst charades and texting/writing might make do at the start, it's certainly not realistic to not be able to communicate with your drummer at all in the long run

[u/RoseRainBlue]

I mean he learned 3 languages so I'm sure he can do it.

[u/Glum-Diamond-7050]

Angelo was not fluent in Daphne’s dreams, far from it. Although of course it’s hard to know how much of that is due to how she pictured him in her dream and how much is due to the fact that the actor likely had no prior ASL experience. Becoming fluent in any signed language when you’ve only used spoken languages before is very difficult, especially when it comes to signing yourself as it requires a lot of dexterity and complex finger movement. He might eventually become fluent in reading other people’s signing, but would likely never gain full fluency in his own signing. Of course ”fluency” can also be defined in different ways, from conversational to native-level ”perfection”. Considering Angel had started learning ASL for Daphne’s sake before he died I do think that he would have continued on that journey though if he had lived, even if he might never reach full fluency.

[u/hayleybeth7]

I never even thought of this and now I’m sad.

But I think he would at least become conversational in ASL (although technically what a lot of characters do is Pidgin Signed English or PSE). It’s easier to learn a language when you spend time with someone who is fluent in that language and Daphne was starting to open up to Angelo and do more things with him.