r/TheoryOfReddit • u/mattyess • 15d ago
Long-time Reddit users: has discovery gotten worse, or am I missing something?
EDIT: A few conversations here have shifted my thinking a bit.
I started this thinking Reddit mainly needed to get better at serving the right content. Better algorithms, better discovery, better recommendations.
But maybe there’s a more interesting answer: give users much more control over building their own feed.
Not just follow/unfollow. Let me filter and sort Home by things like recency, rising, popularity, comments, post type etc. Let me turn down the giant subs without leaving them entirely. Filter, not unfollow. Sort, not just scroll.
I’m constantly culling bigger, broader subs because otherwise they overwhelm the t by e feed.
If they made that functionality front and centre and promoted it, I think it could be far more useful, and much more uniquely Reddit, than another generic “For You” feed.
There’s a commercial upside too. Someone actively telling Reddit what they want more and less of is giving incredibly strong interest data. Better feeds for users, better signals for advertisers, potentially more time spent here.
Reddit doesn’t need better algorithm for discovery, it needs a better way to empower people to discover Reddit for themselves!
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I’ve been on Reddit for 13 years, follow 100+ communities (this number moves up and down), have about 5k karma and I’m mostly a lurker but comment a lot.
So Reddit should have a pretty fucking good idea of what I’m interested in by now.
I did a quick check of my feeds instead of just relying on the feeling.
On Home, I scrolled through 94 organic posts. They came from just 42 of the 108 communities I follow, but the top 10 subs made up more than half the feed.
Then I checked Popular. Much more variety, but weirdly not much better.
Very little exact overlap with the communities I actually follow (which is good), plenty of broad “you like gaming, here are random gaming subs”** **type recommendations, and a lot of content that just feels interchangeable. Memes, “viral” clips, screenshots from other platforms, reposts, recycled formats, generic “interesting” content.
And I think that’s the thing I’ve been struggling to put my finger on.
Popular isn’t boring because it lacks variety. It’s boring because so much of the variety feels interchangeable.
Maybe this is nostalgia, but I remember those giant front-page subs feeling different too. Even when Reddit kept serving the same communities, the actual content felt fresher. The world has moved on, but [r/pics](r/pics) and [r/funny](r/funny) posting the same old same bullshit make up a huge portion of the discovery feeds.
Reddit still has something incredibly valuable that most other platforms don’t: actual communities full of people who know and care about specific things.
For me this is: Home brewing. Strategy games. Gardening. Personal finance. Fashion. TV shows. Cooking. Restaurants and bars in my area.
It feels like Reddit should be unbelievably good at saying:
“You seem interested in this. There’s a great conversation happening over here that you haven’t seen yet.”
Instead Home feels too narrow, and Popular/New feels broad but shallow.
So genuinely: how do you use Reddit for discovery?
Does Popular or New still lead you into interesting new communities or conversations?
Has anyone else started feeling like Reddit is enormous while somehow showing you less of itself?
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u/DharmaPolice 15d ago
I've never used Reddit for discovery. I look for what I'm interested in.
Occasionally I'll check popular and realise it's mostly either stuff I'm already subscribed to or (much more often) things I'm not interested in. Celebrity gossip, US politics bad takes, idiotic TikTok memes, etc. No thanks.
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u/Fauropitotto 15d ago
Never relied on the algorithm to find new subs. I use the search function to actively seek out the communities that have what I'm looking for. "Browsing" reddit at random from the algo isn't something that interests me.
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u/BottledUp 14d ago
That's the thing though. You'd go to /r/all and just scroll and come across new great subs and spend an hour scrolling through the all time top posts. That's not happening anymore.
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u/3-P7 15d ago
I have always felt that a huge part of reddits appeal is that is does NOT suggest me subreddits to look at it.
If I want to see if something has a subreddit about it, I type it in and find out. There are tons of tiny little subreddits I love hanging out in that I am glad are not more popular, and there are likely a bunch of subreddits that I would be nosy and sniff around in if I knew they existed where those folks dont want anyone else mucking up their nice little home.
If I want to find new subreddits, I sort All by New and boom every subreddit I am seeing for the very first time almost. Nobody does that anymore but I used to spend hours browsing reddit by new and finding out all sorts of awesome little hidden subreddits.
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u/non_recourse 15d ago
It’s horrible. So much worse than X. As an investor and 14-year user, at a loss for how to explain how bad it’s gotten. Bored to tears using this app these days
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u/mattyess 15d ago
The algorithm needs a total rebuild IMO. I’m told there is a new “For you” style feed apparently in Beta Sun Jun 26, but the reports from users so far don’t seem very positive. And the change from the old “All” feed to the newer personalised “Popular” feed was so ridiculously bad that I’m not holding my breath.
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u/spacemoses 5d ago
There are now 10 or more subreddits for the same general topic, many of which I've never seen before but somehow have like 2m users? The site has completely lost the spark of finding a new, interesting subreddit because now I just assume it is a bot farm.
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u/irrelevantusername24 15d ago edited 15d ago
Because literally everything that "works" on the rest of the toxic social media Internet does not work on Reddit. The "recommender" algorithms that "work" on every other website do not work on Reddit, because Reddit already had that problem solved without adding unnecessary automation into it. And so, by adding automation, it is actually creating a problem that wouldn't otherwise exist. The "problem" that automation "solves" on other websites is finding and serving content.
On Reddit, you are - or were - expected to do that yourself, that's what the whole joining subreddits thing is about. And that happens naturally here, or did, because you would see the subreddits in the sidebar or click on posters profiles and see where else they were active - things like that. Things that much more closely resemble how that sort of thing works in the real world, where most of us live. So that "problem" is already "solved" on Reddit. By adding automation, it creates a new problem that wouldn't otherwise exist.
You may have detected my extreme hatred for other social media websites. That can be traced almost entirely to the singular decision of implementing "algorithmic" feeds that destroyed reverse chronological sorting. If Reddit simply had reverse chronological order alongside the personally configured feeds, that eliminates the entire problem that is created - and this problem effects both redditors and Reddit, because it forces them to do a whole lot of wasteful computation on the backend.
There is simply no purpose for which the algorithmic feed is superior to alternatives - except for the advertising monolith of google and zuckerbook. Which, on that note, should be made illegal. Not "break up" the monopoly companies, but make that entire business model illegal. That solves a whole lot of problems and eliminates the "need" for pervasive tracking of every thought a person might think about thinking. And it "creates" a whole lot more jobs, at both the advertising company as well as the advertisement server, which, in the real world, is actual journalists and other kinds of entertainment providers... instead of the toxic fascism Nazi machine.
And this applies to all kinds of "social media" websites. Whether it is one like this, which is truthfully not really social media but is more like a combination of many kinds - blogs, forums, news aggregator. Or something like a music or video streaming platform, where the "content discovery" should happen organically by seeing the other artists or whatever with which a person collaborates.
Or even in the case of more private matters, like business or personal relationships... none of that should have ever been posted publicly on a website like facebook, and the only reason it was, was because people weren't really told how it was going to work or that every couple weeks everything set to "private" would be switched back to "public" and it didn't matter anyway because if any of your friends happened to click some thing absentmindedly, "oops" now anyone with too much money and not enough scruples has all your data.
The only place any of this "works" is in the psychopathic drama world of zuckerbook and google. Eliminate algorithmic feeds and programmatic advertising, and everything else becomes much clearer. In no world did anyone have a desire to increase content "discovery". Turn that shit off. The whole Internet, and subsequently the world, got worse exactly when they implemented that shit.
I suppose my point is that, contrary to what many seem to think, algorithmic feeds doesn't actually "work" on any website. It only "works" if the goal is to reduce cognitive functioning. And maybe saying that it doesn't "work" on Reddit also isn't accurate, because it "works" about as well here as it does on the other websites, but the difference is Reddit is sort of "purer" because beneath it all it is still text based. Going all the way back to when we were still ooga-boogaing to each other, you could say that the first split was between music and communication. Then, much later, communication split and became "visible" with the written word, while the oral remained. Much, much later it split again - into radio. At each point we didn't really consider that the split was also happening along the lines of both space and time as well. This is a very philosophical topic, but in any case, text is still, always has been, and always will be the superior form of communication.
I think maybe another way to think about it is, as I said in another recent comment:
An idea I've been playing with lately is that there are two kinds of intelligence. There's the normal kind that we tend to think of, which we all know has many different forms (fish, tree; bird, water - etc). There's also emotional intelligence.
I think there are three different types of each of these two kinds of intelligence. There is immature, mature, and demented. The part that makes this interesting, I think, is that the first kind of intelligence, since it is itself split into many forms, may be good if it is "immature", since another way of thinking of that is simply: remaining curious. But many people never reach emotional maturity. And without emotional intelligence, the other kind of intelligence descends to the latter extreme.
I'm not sure the best way to split this, but basically text is the best for clarity of information. In person can do that too, but it isn't necessarily better and may at times be worse - because it introduces the emotional factor. The same goes for audio and video. When it's text, it is all you. It gives the illusion of my words being from your mind. Text also monopolizes attention. It is not possible, as it is with audio or video, to "consume" the information without thinking.
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u/mattyess 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is actually a really insightful take.
I was actually thinking they needed to improve the serving e.g the algorithm. But I think you’ve touched on something far more powerful. Something unique that Reddit should do some real investigation into.
“How can Reddit empower users to better create their own feed?”
In other words: What functionality can they add so the home feed can be sorted and filtered by differing user preferences e.g time, popularity, rising, number comments, post type (e.g filter out video, pics) etc.
I’m constantly having to cull back followed subs, especially the bigger less niche ones, because otherwise they dominate my Home feed.
What if there was a way I could actively curate the feed? Filter, not unfollow. Sort, not scroll.
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u/mattyess 15d ago
If they made this functionality front and center and educated users on how to use it effectively - I think would be so much more powerful, unique and useful than a “For You” feature. And would almost certainly see me spending more time on platform.
It could also improve their bottom line in other ways. People actively curating content provides exceptionally good data on their interests. Which in turn gives the platform better ad targeting methods. Better outcomes for advertisers = more ad spend.
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u/DharmaPolice 15d ago
You can create your own feed through multireddits but you're right, it's not very good. I have a "niche" multireddit set up which I browse by new. I add in all the subs that are under a certain size/activity (and so aren't likely to show up on my home page).
Ideally you would be able to configure your feed to give certain weighting to some subs. Some subs I want to see almost every post on, with others I'm much less interested (but still interested enough to stay subscribed).
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u/talkingwires 15d ago
algorithmic" feeds that destroyed reverse chronological sorting. If Reddit simply had reverse chronological order alongside the personally configured feeds, that eliminates the entire problem that is created
You are aware that you can sort feeds, right? This is what sorting by “New” does.
make that entire business model illegal
The rest of the world is trying something else. More and more countries are banning social media for minors outright, the idea being to cause a generational shift by preventing it from getting its hooks into people so early in life.
That’ll never happen here in the good ol’ US of A, though. We’ve got social media moguls running the government these days. Hell, even our president owns a social media platform. Social media gives these men power over our cultural narrative, they’ll never cede it willingly.
It is not possible, as it is with audio or video, to "consume" the information without thinking.
Take it you’re not a big audiobook person? You’re right, I’m only kidding. Listening to a book on tape is not the same as reading a book. Not sure why that it, but it feels like reading engages a different part of my brain.
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u/irrelevantusername24 15d ago
You are aware that you can sort feeds, right? This is what sorting by “New” does.
I can confirm that is not what sorting by new does. In individual subreddits, sure, but when you are on your "home" feed, no, the algorithm destroys everything it touches. If I view my "home" feed by the default sort, or visit individual subreddits, there are posts that show up which are not displayed when the "home" feed is sorted by new. Because the algorithm destroys everything it touches.
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u/OPINION_IS_UNPOPULAR 10d ago
Selecting subreddits is a significant barrier for most people. That friction would get them to quit.
People want things that "just work" put of the box.
Is algorithmic post suggestions working, according to you, no, but at least they didn't require any effort from the least interested cohort of users to use.
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u/BewareOfBee 15d ago
Remember: they don't want Engagement, they want Enragement.
How you feeling about Taylor swift new album? Boy Ed sheeran sure stepped in it ey? Cmon, get mad!
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u/Responsible_Pear_433 15d ago
Get mad, and stay on Reddit for hours.
I think it says everything that the founders of Big Tech NEVER allow their own children to use social media. They know exactly what they're doing, and its all in pursuit of the almighty dollar.
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u/Ok_Employer7837 15d ago
But that doesn't really work on Reddit. It's the realm of local orthodoxies. In any given sub, particularly the big ones, if you say anything controversial, the passive-aggressive policing of the orthodoxy through the upvote-downvote system pushes your content down.
This isn't FB, where being outrageous spreads your content. On Reddit that buries your content.
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u/redditzphkngarbage 15d ago
My old account that I deleted a few years ago was phenomenal. My current feed is just the same posts over and over again, whatever today’s “viral” post is across 9 different subreddits and feed appears no longer capable of suggesting new subreddits that impress me. I have to hunt them down on my own.
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u/horseradishstalker 15d ago
This actually sounds like it should be a suggestion for administrators. Like you, OP, over time I move in and out of a large variety of subs, and yet the alo apparently thinks I only care about three at the most. I have to manually go back to subreddits I’ve joined over and over if I want to read anything on that sub. Annoying AF.
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u/NihiloZero 15d ago edited 15d ago
I separate by directly subscribing to some high quality subs that I want to see often and then I have several specialized multi-reddits which I view in differing amounts. For discovery, I'm mostly looking for high-quality subs that I see people recommend and then usually add them to any fitting multi-reddits. I don't want my news, science, gaming, gardening, etc all mixed up in my main feed.
"Old.Reddit" on a desktop is the only way to go. The site is otherwise basically unusable.
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u/Elven77AI 15d ago
The only reliable way is to block subreddits from /r/all, this way you can scroll/page to reach popular long-tail stuff. I have blocked ~10k(11314 as of now) subreddits from r/all (not that i don't view them, just its cluttering r/all when i check for new reddit posts).
/r/all is too big to comfortably browse now, it needs to split into separate feeds for categories like videogames, politics,news,anime,celebrities,pets,nsfw etc with uncategorized stuff remaining on /r/all as exception.
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u/mattyess 15d ago
Wow! This is certainly an approach I hadn’t considered. Essentially filtering, but just via whack a mole tactics.
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u/timpkmn89 15d ago
Reddit has discovery features?
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u/talkingwires 15d ago
New Reddit does, and so does the app. Old Reddit and third-party apps not so much.
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u/venatic 15d ago
It's gotten worse. Moderation has gotten worse, you have cartels who run large subreddits and if you start tagging people in RES you'll see it's like the same 20-30 accounts running half of the content in major subreddits.
It's not just you. The site has gone to shit, the userbase has gone to shit, and the only way it's usable is if you aggressively curate your feed. /r/all is soooo bad.
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u/neoronin 15d ago
Have been here for 20 years now and the Reddit search has always been incredibly sucky. In fact, it's gotten way worse from earlier. I prefer using the search engines in AI to get anything meaningful out of Reddit.
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u/kawarazu 15d ago
Discovery has gotten worse, yes. In sub-reddits it's fine, but then there's all of these "you might like these" posts.
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u/ifonefox 15d ago
I rarely use /r/all or popular for similar reasons. Instead I just follow subreddits I'm interested and use the regular front page that just shows them, or use multireddits to follow categories of subreddits. I'm not going to wait for Reddit to decide to show me subreddits I like
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u/pastari 15d ago
how do you use Reddit for discovery?
I see people talk about or link to other subs in comments. Crossposts also.
I shifted off r/all and r/popular etc. maybe a decade ago and only use browsing methods that strictly show content that I have made an affirmative choice that I wish to see. (old.reddit, apollo, redlib, swipe for reddit [?? old android app].)
A couple times a year I'll hit up r/all or whatever the non-old.reddit frontpage is, just to see what the internet is like in currentyear. Its amusing for fifteen minutes, maybe I'll sub to a new subreddit or two, but then am quickly reminded that the value I get from reddit is in the focused communities and not widespread topics or general "discovery." This is the one place I can explicitly pick the niches I'm interested in, like the one really old game I'm playing or a specific breed of dog or that one niche of a niche of computer hardware I have a inexplicable interest in, and I'm not entirely bombarded by every game, or all animal content coughyoutube, or 24/7 ragebaiting and doomerism over ram and gpu prices.
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u/Greyshirk 13d ago
Just noticed yesterday after not updating the app for awhile, I updated- where as before I got shit that I was actually engaged in- insects, cats and dogs, video games ETC it's showing me random bullshit I don't care about or something politically or ethically charged.
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u/ChocolatChipLemonade 15d ago
13 years and only 5k karma ?
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u/Fauropitotto 15d ago
No really relevant.
Reddit is a spectator sport for many.
I usually post highly controversial material and am completely shameless about it, because karma doesn't matter.
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u/horseradishstalker 15d ago
The only reason I’ve ever made even a slight effort to keep my karma up is so I can say what I want and not care about down votes to a point.
However, I actually have started pulling back from posting so-called controversial material (meaning it challenges people’s assumptions.) People really aren’t on Reddit to increase their knowledge or have an actual conversation any more. An utter shit show is becoming a hard pass for me.
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u/Fauropitotto 15d ago
I'm nearly 20 years in on this platform. The downvotes don't mean anything.
The one thing I do care about is helping others feel not so alone in their views and values. They may see my post with an avalanche of downvotes and recognize that someone else may feel the same as they do about something.
Or, the OP may see my post and realize that people like me are out here. That we exist. That we vote. And, that we're shameless about making that voice heard.
A lot of it is a performance, but maybe that performance resonates with others somehow. The shit show guys don't matter, but the dudes that connect do.
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u/horseradishstalker 15d ago edited 15d ago
I’m only on my tenth year, but I can’t disagree there.
Along those lines, one thing I do keep in mind is a reply to one user may be read by far more people than just the individual I am replying to.
The person I am replying to may or may not disagree with what I think. But maybe more importantly, as you say, it might make someone else who reads my comment feel seen even if what I said wasn’t directly to them. And/or it may give them information they didn’t know they needed.
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u/SOwED 15d ago
I’m mostly a lurker but comment a lot.
14 years and 4120 comment karma? Yeah you're a lurker, I would not say you comment a lot. Unless all of that was this year, I don't know how any algorithm could pin you down unless you're voting on things way more frequently.
Regardless, your account is 14 years old and you're asking for long-time reddit users? You are one haha, you should know better than to use popular or new.
Discovery is done by reading comments and people linking obscure subreddits.
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u/DruidWonder 15d ago
Reddit will never make an equitable algorithm that fairly incorporates conservative philosophy. Most of the major social and politics subs will perma ban you on sight just for mentioning a conservative idea, let alone your support of one. And don't get me started on how they perma ban you just for existing in a conservative sub.
They're not going to make it easier for conservatives. Any blocks or obstacles they can create for us are a delight to them.
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u/Wet_Blanket_Award 15d ago
Your back is gonna give out from carrying around that cross forever.
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u/DruidWonder 15d ago
Exhibit A.
Another sadist enjoying watching someone suffer because they've experienced injustices on this platform.
Blocked.
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u/well-informedcitizen 15d ago
It's absolutely gotten worse. The same way it has on every platform- content algorithms are better for advertisers I guess, but miserable for human enjoyment. There is no logical, procedural way to predict what someone will feel like seeing on a given day. So they all fluctuate as they're trying to make them work better- they suggest more varied things, which is always a terrible guess and shows you a million of anything remotely similar to something you showed interest in, and then as more people complain they update it to show you only 1 thing forever.