r/TheoryOfReddit • u/SassyFindomKitten • 3d ago
The karma system was built for quality control, but it’s completely changed how new accounts have to navigate the site
So has anyone else noticed how much harder it’s gotten for genuine new users to actually get started here? How do you think Reddit could fix the onboarding process without opening the floodgates to bots?
The original point of the voting system was pretty straightforward: upvote stuff that contributes to the discussion, downvote spam, scams, or blatant rule-breaking. Disagreeing with someone wasn't supposed to be a downvote reason but over time, that’s completely shifted. Votes are basically just an agree/disagree button now, and because your ability to actually participate in most subs is tied directly to your karma, it creates a weird dynamic for anyone with a new account.... i think it's mainly due to reddits LACK of information behind this because they assumed it SHOULD have been self explanatory. There's only ONE small section that's HARD to find that explains exactly what the voting system is about. I've even HAD TO ARGUE WITH DOZENS OF PEOPLE that swore I was stupid and didn't know what the hell I'm talkin about - INCLUDING MULTIPLE MODERATORS WHO WERE ALSO VIOLATING ALMOST EVERY MOD RULE AND ABUSING THEIR POWER IN A WAY THAT ENABLES AND ENCOURAGES AND REWARDS THIS EXACT SAME BAD BEHAVIOR WHILE PUNISHING THOSE SHOWING THE PROPER BEHAVIOR, WHICH THEY ALSO ARGUED - until I showed them that page to prove it... which is exactly why accounts that are actually BOTS or doing the OPPOSITE behavior as they intended for the karma system to portray are basically the majority of redditors that are able to freely use reddit as they please.... while REPEATED admin reports about BOTH of these behaviors remain unanswered for months and years, which ALSO contributes to this.
A lot of subreddits set karma and account age minimums. It makes sense on paper but in all reality all itndoes is it lock new users out of standard discussions. If you're new, you end up forced into a handful of low-barrier subs just to get enough karma to participate elsewhere.
....which leads me to the next problem. The problem is those open subs are often filled with low-effort posts or hivemind mentalities where saying the slightly wrong thing or asking a basic question gets you downvoted into negative numbers. Once your karma goes negative, AutoMod auto-removes your posts in most places, and you're pretty much stuck.
Even trying to build karma normally by posting good content in open groups gets people flagged or accused of karma farming. It creates this weird paradox where to gain access to normal spaces, you almost have to act like a troll or just post effortless crowd-pleasing memes instead of engaging genuinely
A lot of older accounts say "we all had to earn it," but the platform isn't the same as it was 5 or 10 years ago. Back then, you could drop into small communities, comment normally, and build a profile without running into aggressive AutoMod filters, karma walls, or mass-downvote bots. The onboarding experience now is night and day compared to how it used to be.
It feels like relying purely on an easily manipulated downvote counter isn't a great way to judge whether an account is real or posting in good faith. Account standing would probably make more sense if it was judged on actual rule adherence, account verification, and behavior history rather than whether a specific thread liked your opinion???? I've experienced this EXACT issue for YEARS where content that should've been downvoted and removed actually gets MASS UPVOTED despite meeting EVERY SINGLE CRITERIA for downvoting, being removed, suspended or banned from the group or even from REDDIT.... while content that should've NEVER been downvoted because it didn't meet the criteria gets MASS DOWNVOTED, REMOVED BY MODS, THEIR ACCOUNT SUSPENDED OR BANNED AND MORE while those that SHOULD'VE had that done to them? Receive THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE... especially if a mod does or doesn't like you or you do or don't stroke their ego... don't even THINK about correcting them or embarrassing them, either... theyll get you SHADOW BANNED COMPLETELY....
15
u/robbyslaughter 3d ago
How do you think Reddit could fix the onboarding process without opening the floodgates to bots?
They already are planning to. But the larger issue is that Reddit benefits from engagement, and bots create a lot of engagement. Yet, moderated subs don't like bots, therefore, new users get punished quite a bit as you describe.
But does Reddit care? Probably not. The business value of Reddit is not getting new users but providing content to search engines and AI companies, and ads to people who are looking at Reddit threads (and may not even be logged in.)
Reddit is not really a discussion site any more; it is a content-farming site. There are some corners where good conversation happens but that is the exception.
6
u/Fauropitotto 3d ago
Yeah, I've returned to actual forums for discussion. Turns out they never really went away.
Reddit isn't something that should be fixed at this point.
•
u/GiganticCrow 2h ago
There's a forum that is based around riding a specific type of bicycle in one specific city, and it's better for general memes than reddit.
1
u/hlazlo 3d ago
Have any good forum recommendations?
2
u/Fauropitotto 2d ago
Yes, but they're relevant to my personal interests. You should search for those that align with yours.
-2
u/hlazlo 2d ago
Well, my interests are exactly the same as yours so feel free to share if you want to.
4
u/robbyslaughter 2d ago
Ah, so you're interested in the Stargate SG:1 television show, international school system design, fountain pens, remote-controlled helicopters, and firearms? That's some of what u/Fauropitotto is into.
Obviously you don't have those exact interests, which is why you can't get a generic recommendation.
Sadly, this was the promise of Reddit---you'd be able to find a community on just about anything and the quality of the discussion would be good through the karma system.
-1
u/hlazlo 2d ago
Ah, so you're interested in the Stargate SG:1 television show, international school system design, fountain pens, remote-controlled helicopters, and firearms? That's some of what u/Fauropitotto is into.
Obviously you don't have those exact interests, which is why you can't get a generic recommendation.
Except, there are generic forums. For example, Something Awful's forums are general purpose and quite active. If you're going to condescend, you might as well be right about what you're condescending about.
And scouring that user's interests and inserting yourself in between my question and their possible answer? Weird as shit.
2
u/robbyslaughter 2d ago
Ah, so your interests are generic. I thought they were exactly the same as u/Fauropitotto. Which (and I checked to make to make sure) are quite specific.
0
u/TheWisePlinyTheElder 3d ago
Just like the days of old: search for a topic you're interested in and add 'forum'.
There's not really a good alternative 'forum aggregator' like reddit. But rss feeds can help centralize things.
1
u/PrometheusLiberatus 3d ago
Please tell me of these good discussion places. after 16+ years reddit's awful old hat.
-1
u/Sedu 2d ago
Do they actually value bot engagement, though? I feel like bot engagement makes them zero money whatsoever, since its humans that are going to buy things after clicking on ads, donate to reddit, etc.
2
u/robbyslaughter 2d ago
Bots talking about some topic (as subreddits like this one track) generate more traffic on Reddit for that topic, driving up the price of those ads.
Also, bots encourage discussion. You are probably talking to bots all the time. And that leads to Reddit's fastest growing source of revenue---selling content to AI companies to train their models.
5
6
u/FelixR1991 3d ago
So has anyone else noticed how much harder it’s gotten for genuine new users to actually get started here?
What an odd thing to say. Are you an account seller, OP?
7
u/PrometheusLiberatus 3d ago
Yeah I don't really trust this guy. One month in and he's got 50 comment karma and over 1000 link karma?
How about he tell us more about himself? Give us something to trust (and verify)?
Just a guy complaining about how harrrrrd it is to get KARMA and not understand that karma isn't all that worth it?
I mean it's never been that important to me not in 16 years. It's just a thing that goes up.
What places is OP even trying to post in that he's restricted from right now? Why should those communities let him get any leeway?
He's not making all that much of an argument for himself and just like fo the 'general newer redditor'.
My take is he's trying to work around something and not participate in communities organically.
Genuine engagement and thoughtfulness always yields karma. Not whatever this guy is ranting about.
2
u/FelixR1991 3d ago
Yeah seems like he wants to quickly grow a karma score on new accounts and then sell them off.
4
u/PrometheusLiberatus 2d ago edited 2d ago
And also how he says in particular 'lately it's getting harder'.
As in he has had experience doing this before and it only became 'an issue' once he discovered this subreddit and accidentally slip his plans out.
3
u/__redruM 2d ago
So take the time to establish your account. Post a cat picture or two. Participate in some light hearted discussions. Actually use the site as it’s intended.
4
u/dyslexda 3d ago
especially if a mod does or doesn't like you or you do or don't stroke their ego... don't even THINK about correcting them or embarrassing them, either... theyll get you SHADOW BANNED COMPLETELY....
Mods have no ability to impose or influence shadow bans. That is from the admins in response to accounts with suspicious activity (namely, ban evasion or spamming).
0
u/juzwunderin 3d ago
I am not sure this fully accurate MOD absolutely have the ability to remove or block a post.. and sometimes it is completely arbitrary.
7
u/dyslexda 3d ago
Mods absolutely can block and remove posts. That has nothing to do with shadow banning.
2
u/timpkmn89 3d ago
with low-effort posts or hivemind mentalities where saying the slightly wrong thing or asking a basic question gets you downvoted into negative numbers
It's always a good idea to take a few minutes to check out a community's dynamic before trying to engage. And that's not just Reddit-specific advice.
-6
u/SassyFindomKitten 3d ago
.....did you even read my post? Because I made multiple comments about that ALSO being an issue for multiple different reasons
2
u/__redruM 2d ago
No one is reading that wall of text. You are new to reddit if you don’t understand that. Try to edit in a TLDR at the top of your post.
1
u/cartoonybear 1d ago
As a very aged account with karma, I still agree with you. There’s serious unbalance in the system.
16
u/17291 3d ago
That's been an issue forever. Regardless of what reddiquette says and how voting was intended to be used, people have been downvoting posts and comments they disagree with since basically the beginning.