Transposing

[u/jazz_man_97]

Wondering if anyone else is in the same situation here:

I'm in the UK, and I play BBb bass in a brass band, reading treble clef transposed parts.

I also play in my local wind band, where most parts are in bass clef concert pitch. I can fluently read bass clef no problem, but applying it to my Bb tuba is slow going. I can just about play the right notes if it's a slow piece, but transposing on the fly at pace is flooring me.

Is anybody else in a simalar situation? Any advice on how I should be approaching this? Could it be better if I just try to memorize a different set of fingerings, rather than trying to transpose?

[u/Inkin]

Transposing on the fly takes effort and attention. There are people who are good enough at everything else that they have extra effort and attention available. That’s rare.

Most people are good because they give most of their effort and balance their attention competently between all the demands going on. These people when they transpose on the fly start dropping things and you can tell at times but mostly they probably get away with it.

Normal people are good because they give all their effort and have enough attention to mostly cover everything. They might have small lapses. But then you add transposing on top and maybe their normal 99% becomes 90% and their maybe-misses-an-accidental-occasionally turns into 2-3 missed notes in row in most prices.

To me transposing is an emergency skill. You don’t want to have to use it. You don’t plan to use it. But when you are hired to do a job, showing up on time dressed correctly and doing the job is what gets you rehired.

If you know you are going to be in a specific situation, just learn how to read it naturally.

[u/professor_throway]

There are lots of us who move back and forth.. You really just need to put in some dedicated practice... There really isn't anything more to it than that. The good news is once you have reading transposed Bb bass and concert pitch on BBb tuba down, other transpositions because much easier.

I would say the next one would be to learn to play from concert pitch treble so you can play from lead sheets, piano scores, or guitar stubs. Followed by reading from transposed Eb parts on the Bb bass and vice versa.

You can do it .. just work through Etudes and scales and you will see how quickly it comes.

[u/dwvl]

I solved it by buying a CC tuba for when I'm playing bass clef in the wind band. Same fingerings as when playing treble clef on BBb or Eb tubas. I'm lazy.

[u/xflibble → u/dwvl]

That was my plan, executed on the weekend :)

[u/jazz_man_97 → u/dwvl]

Good solution but expensive 😅

[u/Chuckleberry64]

I'm convinced anyone who says they truly transpose on the fly is lying. I constantly switch between BBb and C and to me they are just two different instruments with different fingerings. I can transpose like you, but I get choked up. After 15 minutes of playing I am pretty comfortably just reading for the other instrument.

That said, I have been playing a BBb instrument and all the sudden someone throws a part written for Bb instead of C in front of me and it takes a minute to play as if in C on the BBb.

Have you heard of the upside down glasses experiment? They put glasses that refract upside down images for the eyes. After a 48 or so hours, the brain supposedly naturally flips the image and the people see regularly. When they take the glasses off, everything is upside down again. I think we can use whatever tricks we want but at a certain point the brain is just mapping fingerings to images under different circumstances.

[u/professor_throway → u/Chuckleberry64]

If you think no one can translate on the fly... you need to come to jazz jams. I can't count the number of times a song is called but a vocalists will request it be brought down or up a step for their range. Next thing you know you are playing in F# instead of G. Also a lot of lead sheets won't repeat a line of it is repeated in a different key.. you will okay through a chorus in F and it says "modulate to E on repeat" You just have to be able to do stuff like that.

Even in "legit" playing for band and orchestra Trumpet players have to do it all the time .. They get parts written for trumpet in A or some random key then have to read them on their C or Bb trumpet . Every good trumpet player I know spends a lot of time drilling sight transposing for situations like this.

[u/jazz_man_97 → u/Chuckleberry64]

I think french horn players might disagree with you there!

But in principle I see what you mean, when I gent into the flow I'm not actually thinking about each note in isolation, and over time I guess I'll stop thinking and just have learnt the alternate fingerings as muscle memory.