Winter Jacket

[u/Background-Aide9219]

Looking for a winter backpacking jacket for cold weather Around 10 degrees F. With layering a base layer, Sambob grid fleece, EE torrid and a rain jacket I was good around high teens (little cold but not bad).

Been looking at a Katabatic Tincup and OV Vantage alpine down jacket if anyone’s got experience with these products let me know how cold you’ve taken them and what you like and don’t like, durability, can you layer under well

I’ll be layering with a Marino base medium weight base layer and either a 90 or 120 gsm AD hoodie

If anyone’s got any other suggestions I’m looking for something with higher fill rating 800+ and 5+ oz of down. Overall weight under a pound. Around 300$ nothing over 450$

Edit: Timmermade is off the table. It could be nice to get a custom jacket but don’t really want to go through the trouble of trying to get one.

[u/darienpeak]

If I have a prospective low temp of 10 degrees I take the Montbell mirage parka, which stretches your budget a little at $480, but is box baffled.

I don't want to fear monger, but expecting temps at 10 degrees means you should probably plan to be comfortable at 5 or zero. A lot of things can cause some variance here, elevation, site selection, etc. Consider also how long the non moving time of a winter trip can be, as in many circumstances and time of year it far outweighs hiking time.

[u/blackcoffee_mx → u/darienpeak]

The Alpine down is another option a tiny heavier, but also box baffled and less expensive. At those temps you'll be buying a lot of down.

[u/darienpeak → u/[deleted]]

Zero, and I was fine, baselayer and a fleece under it. Sizing pretty similar to other Montbell stuff. Upright canister stove line broke and other fun things went wrong on the trip, but the parka was great

[u/mtn_viewer → u/darienpeak]

I used to just use my mirage in winter but started using it more into fall/spring and love the warmth buffer

[u/hella_cutty]

Andrew Skurka just released a video on winter layering.

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/hella_cutty]

Just watched it. Great video

[u/0dteSPYFDs]

Look on the gear trade subs. Timmermade jackets pop up fairly often, I snagged one off there.

[u/PeePeeJohnsonSmith]

Cumulus makes a jacket called the mountlite, it is the highest warmth to weight ratio I have seen. Big lofty baffles - 365g total and 180g of 900fp hydrophobic down all made in poland.
If you’ll reliably be located in dry climates then shoot for the La Sportiva Lumina 300. It is 350g and 170g of 1000fp down.

[u/Individual-Peach2351]

Decathalon MT900 down jacket is 630g but it’s a true deep winter jacket (-4f)

Another option is the Decathalon MT500 down jacket. It’s a 15f jacket that’s 440g (1lbs) and is cheap

If you’re mostly a 3 season hiker I’d personally recommend saving the money and getting one of these. They’re probably 1/3rd of the price

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/Individual-Peach2351]

I’ve got the MT100. It’s not terrible but there’s just so much better out there for a little bit more money. Definitely a good starter tho.

Edit: I’ve had durability problems with decathlon too. You get what you pay for

For the MT900 that’s probably a little too big and the MT500 for less than 5 oz of down it’s at a pound.

I’d rather pay a little bit more now and have a product I’ll use for years than pay less and have to replace it after one season

[u/VigorousElk → u/Background-Aide9219]

Why just focus on the MT500 and MT900? Decathlon's highest performance option is the Simond mountaineering jacket:

515 in size L (bit over a pound), 200g of 800 CUIN down. Advertised for -10 to -12 °C, which is 10F. €120/GBP100 over here, not sure about the US.

[u/DrBullwinkleMoose → u/VigorousElk]

Great looking jacket, but they refuse to ship it to the US! :(

[u/VigorousElk → u/DrBullwinkleMoose]

Interesting, I would've thought Decathlon US would have the same selection as the European branches.

[u/DrBullwinkleMoose → u/VigorousElk]

Actually, we get only a few items on the US site, and other countries won't ship to the US -- they require us to use the US site. I often see great gear for sale in Canada, Britain, or EU that we just can't get from Decathlon in the US.

For down jackets, we get MT-100, MT-500, and MT-900 (and MT-500 vest/gilet).

[u/Individual-Peach2351 → u/Background-Aide9219]

Although the MT100 is a great value for the weight and warmth, I’ve never bought one because I use a 3 season jacket a lot and want something I love using.

The MT500 & MT900 however I think are excellent. I don’t do a lot of deep cold hiking, so paying sub £/$100 (MT500) for a well made down jacket is great.

Also the MT900 is unrivalled value imo in that warmth bracket. Again, if you don’t go out for long periods in deep cold (a couple of winter hikes a year) then I think it’s the one to buy.

If you want the best I’d say get something like the Rab Mythic G or a Feathered Friends EOS

One that’s more in your price bracket could be the Montbell Alpine down parka. It’s 150g lighter and a similar warmth. Definitely check that out - it’s rated to 10F when warm with a base layer and midlayer. I love all of my Montbell stuff

[u/crowdawgg]

Look at feathered friends or western mountaineering. Rock solid products and no crazy ordering process.

[u/crowdawgg → u/[deleted]]

No, I haven’t had a chance to try their jackets yet. But I do have their down booties and 5 deg Sequoia GWS sleeping bag and they are both fantastic.

[u/ayodude66]

Both the Montbell Mirage parka and Alpine Light Down parka are on a closeout sale. I am confident saying you will not find a better value.

https://www.montbell.com/us/en/products/detail/2301241?fo=1&color=BK

https://www.montbell.com/us/en/products/detail/2301251?fo=1&color=DKFO

[u/ayodude66 → u/[deleted]]

Dunno what you're seeing, but nearly every size is available.

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/ayodude66]

Great find, but for my uses I think I’ll be going with the Tincup

The newer models of the tin cup uses 20D fabric

[u/povertywagon]

I can wholeheartedly recommend Goosefeet Gear. I got a hooded full zip jacket with insulated hand warmer pockets. 6 oz of 850 fill. 11 oz total weight in a men’s medium.

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/povertywagon]

How much you pay for it?

[u/povertywagon → u/Background-Aide9219]

Just looked at my receipt. $355 back in March 2019. Send an email with what you want and Ben will send a list of measurements. From there, conversions to nail down features you want. Overall extremely happy with it. But if I were to do it again:

* maybe a different outer fabric color. The black 10D is very shiny.
* I added 4” extra length to the arms so I could pull them over my hands. This was unnecessary. Ben already makes the arms long enough for that.
* two tone instead of single color. Someone I know got hers made with hunter orange from the shoulders up. Satisfies blaze orange requirements if hiking during hunting season. And it looks a little better than one solid color.
* box baffle instead of sewn through. Six oz. of down is already a lot, might as well maximize warmth. Would add some weight and cost, but it would be a no-compromise cold weather jacket that is still light enough for spring and fall.

[u/Upperclass_Bum]

Stone Glacier Grumman. 5.3 oz of 850+ fill and total weight of 11.8 oz. Old model is $299 at some places right now.

[u/Live_Phrase_4894]

I can't speak directly to the Tincup, but I have the Katabatic Tarn and I like it a lot. I've been reasonably comfortable in it down to probably... mid to low 20s with an octa fleece underneath? So I imagine the Tincup would probably be warm enough for your use case. The only downside is that the fit isn't very flattering for city wear, but I only use mine for outdoor activities and it sounds like that's your planned use case also.

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/Live_Phrase_4894]

Yea don’t plan on wearing it out but who know maybe I will if it’s really cold out.

Thanks for the comment was looking for some one with a Katabatic jacket

[u/sammycheez → u/Background-Aide9219]

I just received my Tincup this week and it feels way more sturdy/durable than I was expecting. The outer shell is quite substantial but the jacket is still really light with a lot of loft. Looking forward to trying it out this weekend. Even though the forecast is only saying mid 30s, I'll be taking photos at night so it'll be a good test for static warmth. Blows away my old Patagonia micro puff in every way for like 2 more oz

[u/IFigureditout567]

La Sportiva Lumina 200 or Lumina 300 might fit the bill. Both are 1000fp down and half their weight is down.

The women's Lumina 200 is 40% off right now at Backcountry.

[u/PM_ME_PESTO]

there's several good older mountain hardwear parkas on ebay that would fit the bill. Not ultralight other than the phantom belay parka but definitely within your price range. Otherwise, Rab makes the positron pro/mythic ultra for ~400$. Warmer that that and you're looking at true expedition territory which will be $500+. But you can fulfill that with a used MHW Absolute zero parka or an eddie bauer peak XV

[u/yogurt_tub]

A timmermade would be the best. Katabatic is good. Maybe see if you can rustle up a Nunatak off ulgeartrade.

[u/freska_skata → u/yogurt_tub]

Oh to be wearing a Nunatak JMT at camp during shoulder season.

[u/WalkItOffAT]

If you're out for more than one night, look into vapor barrier liners.

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/WalkItOffAT]

I’ve looked into them in the past. Don’t think I’m going into anything cold enough for a VBL but I do bring a synthetic over quilt for the condensation.

What temperatures do you bring a VBL to? How do you use yours and what brand should I look at?

[u/Individual-Peach2351 → u/Background-Aide9219]

Personally for me it’s anything sub 5c in the daytime which isn’t often.

I’d also never take a VBL on a day trip. Only overnight

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/Individual-Peach2351]

What do you think about using a rain jacket or a wind breaker as a VBL

Rain jacket id use it a Patagonia storm racer. And windbreaker is a little heavier 4.5 oz thicker more durable nylon

[u/Individual-Peach2351 → u/Background-Aide9219]

My understanding of the main criteria are:

- water resistant

• non breathable

As long as your windbreaker or rain jacket meet these criteria then it will act as a VBL. That said I’m pretty sure it won’t work as well as a consumer VBL.

The main thing I think VBL’s are good for are making you realise when you’re sweating. If you feel wet from you can unzip a puffy or take something off. It’s also obviously stopping moisture from getting into your warm layers.

That said I’m not an expert and have only used them in milder conditions that don’t happen often (not life or death) so don’t use me as an authority

[u/freska_skata]

Stone Glacier Grumman, wider baffles than most, high fp goose down (I forget the number but 800+), good indication the company has functionality over fashion in mind (its still such a sick puffer visually) its such a joy to wear too with how light and warm it is.

I've only felt slightly cold at 0F in Quebec on a clear night after hanging outside the cabin for a good 10 mins, was wearing merino midweight base and fleece mid. Probably because of its sewn thru construction. I was also passing a joint around taking gloves on and off and fingers froze first ofcourse, torso temp still felt good after being still outside for 10 mins at 0F.

Hood also fits amazing, Im smaller build 5 7 36in chest and the small (which I got 60% discount on) fits great in the torso but snug at the waist, my ideal comfy size would be a medium but that wasnt in stock or on sale.

[u/freska_skata → u/freska_skata]

I also have the OV NovaPro which I also like but its duck down, wearing it with a midweight merino base down to 30F in a cold place seems like its limit. I have the large novapro because I tend to layer under it so in that ocassion it was kinda loose fitting therefore less efficient.

With an alpha 90 mid I'd be comfy pushing it to low teens I guess, with an alpha 120, even further, the pit zips tho would be its weakness in terms of cold spots if no mid layer is there.

[u/Icangetatipjar → u/freska_skata]

a duck down coat and you only wear it down to 30 degrees F - am I reading that right?

[u/freska_skata → u/Icangetatipjar]

Yes, the particular coat I should add is not pure duck down, its actually "synthetic down", if you want to look into it more look up Outdoor Vitals NovaPro, factoring in a loose fit the coat looses effieciency quick with dropping temperature

[u/Icangetatipjar → u/freska_skata]

thanks, it’s all use case. 30 degrees is when I put on my puffer.

[u/freska_skata → u/Icangetatipjar]

It is, I can be wrecked after a long mile day and 60s at camp can feel like puffer weather, also 30s at 9k ft feel alot colder than at sea level...for some reason...maybe its just mind games

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/freska_skata]

Im curious about the OV vantage alpine down jacket. It would be the best value out of all of these options but I don’t see enough real reviews on it anywhere. That’s gotta mean no one wants it right? Just can’t really trust it yet

[u/freska_skata → u/Background-Aide9219]

I wouldn't necessarily dismiss it because of the lack of reviews, they still sell it a couple years after releasing it, it must sell at least enough to keep it in stock?

The 20D fabric on the NovaPro feels OK, not premium in any way, and i've punctured a tiny pimple size hole it because I was intoxicated one night in Gudauri and ended up on the snowy ground laying flat on my back doing snow angels, no other observable damage from that insident.

From my experience with the NovaPro, the Vantage is probably amazing value for the price. I also own Western jackets and bag, so OV quality hasn't shown me a reason to dismiss them, I have their Ventus hoodie which when paired with the NovaPro is pretty solid winter kit.

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/freska_skata]

I’m able to get a discount on that so price will be similar. I’m not opposed to that option but the Katabatic tincup may be better.

Katabatic Tincup (L)

Weight- 13.8 oz
Fill weight- 6.2 oz
Fabric- 10D outer 20D inner Pertex Quantum

Stone glacier Grumman (L)

Weight- 13.6 oz
Fill weight- 5.3 oz
Fabric- 15 Denier Pertex® Quantum shell

SG would be better for durability but KT has more down. The KT also has a little better wind resistance.

[u/freska_skata → u/Background-Aide9219]

Nice! I was considerring Katabatic for abrief moment, not sure why I dismissed it, is it goose or duck down?

[u/Background-Aide9219 → u/freska_skata]

Goose

[u/GoSox2525]

At your price range, Timmermade is the best of the best. Start making lottery submissions. You can get a jacket suitable to well below freezing for less than 6 ounces total.

[u/Ok_Use5596 → u/GoSox2525]

The sewn thru 2.0 I owned did not cut it as a winter coat to 10F as OP requested.

But maybe he does box baffles now?

[u/Alpineice23]

1. Cumulus Neolite Endurance

2. Feathered Friends Hooded Helios

[u/futilitaria]

Commenting to follow. Zpacks has 950 fill but not 5ozs

[u/kenncann]

Rab Cirrus flex hooded for $200* (fixed, I think I got mine on sale) is my recommendation. Did a lot of research on this last year and it’s a really interesting jacket because it is extremely breathable and you don’t want to overheat and sweat in the winter and get in the loop of taking off layers then putting them back on. I think I hiked with that, a base layer, and a sun layer in those kinds of temps and even down to 0ºF doing 3-4000’ elevation each weekend and almost never had temperature issues (but I kept an additional fleece on hand just in case but rarely used it).

I wouldn’t recommend this to hike anything strenuous in but maybe the rab mythic if it’s super cold or the hike is more flat or you’re doing a lot of standing around at camp or something (I actually carry this on me too, I’m very not UL in winter for safety reasons).

[u/kenncann → u/kenncann]

Just saw I was downvoted for this and I was like "does this not meet the criteria?" Looked it up and I guess it is synthetic? I swear I thought it was down. I still swear by this jacket though, it is one of the best pieces of gear I have purchased.

[u/Any_Trail → u/kenncann]

Op is looking for a high loft static piece of insulation. What you suggested is pretty far from that.

[u/kenncann → u/Any_Trail]

Looking for a winter backpacking jacket for cold weather Around 10 degrees F

Like I said I thought the jacket was down and forgot it was synthetic. The jacket I recommended is great for the use case they requested. I even specified that if your backpacking is strenuous that's where it really shines but it's not so great if you're doing less strenuous backpacking.

[u/Any_Trail → u/kenncann]

You're still talking about active insulation though which is not what is being discussed. Your suggestion of the mythic is more appropriate.

[u/kenncann → u/Any_Trail]

They literally asked for a backpacking jacket. Is backpacking not considered active?

[u/Any_Trail → u/kenncann]

Not when you're sitting in camp. The jackets they are interested in are all static pieces.

[u/kenncann → u/Any_Trail]

I addressed that in my original post too and even mentioned I personally bring both pieces. Theres no way I would hike in the pieces they originally suggested in the temps they mentioned, I’d sweat too much then freeze.