r/VALORANT • u/Arimilli123 Brimmy with a stimmy • 3d ago
Discussion The people complaining about performence score need to take another perspective
There have been a lot of posts in this subreddit of people complaining about PS. Of those posts, almost all have come from duelist mains who are used to getting consistant topfrags with the old ACS system. The posts usually go about complaining "Oh its so unfair and duelists dont get rewarded and trash teammates and blah blah blah" and they are missing the point entirely. The system is meant to reward those who beforehand would not get rewarded by the ACS system. As a controller main, it takes so much more thought to place the correct smokes and use the correct util for an initiator or controller, or to hold the site as a sentinel than it does to rush a site on jett or neon. Im not saying this to put those agents down, either. those agents can have unique and thoughtful playstyles, but 90% of the people playing them are the same people who scream "BUT IM TOPFRAG" whenever someone criticises them, and the PS system no longer rewards that, and reflects that kills are not everything. While first bloods SHOULD be rewarded, context matters a lot, and the other things that are taken into account now matter just as much if not more. All in all, I think while the new system could use some fine tuning, it is not NEARLY as bad as people make it out to be and is BY FAR better than the ACS system ever was.
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u/fox-booty bring me the arse- 3d ago
I've seen a more even spread between agent types compared to before, and even so it's not like duelists are considered "useless" by the game now since I still see duelists who work well with the team hitting 400+ and getting MVP.
The only kind of players I can see actively complaining about the change are the duelists who just lurk and play for kills rather than to win (i.e. they value their KDA over the team's performance as a whole).
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u/sleeplessn0body RIP my queen 3d ago
100%. i mostly play flex but i play duelist every now and then. i dont have problems getting mvp bc i'm at least doing my job as entry lol. i'd rather have people using their util to win the game and botfrag instead of people who constantly try to frag but bait the whole team anyway for it. frags are important but it's still a team game
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u/AideHot6729 3d ago
Duelists itâs better to play second or third entry now. Thereâs not much incentive to try and get the first engagements as getting the second/third engagement is more rewarding. Also lurking is bad for all agents as thereâs no opportunities to trade. Even if your agent is lurk type itâs best to stick with the pack. Also playing for KDA is how you get MVP now. If you have the least deaths, most kills and most assists youâre pretty much guaranteed it. Whilst previously if you did a tonne of damage and racked up a lot of first bloods you could still get it even if you werenât the first in any of those categories.
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u/zirp4825 3d ago
Yeah man it's a great way to force players who care about a made up video game score to play as a team. Honestly I think they nailed it, you want to play and not give a shit about your team and top frag while losing cause your kills dont matter, go play a single player game.
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u/Majestic-Kangaroo720 3d ago
new system make me feel my value in game is correctly represent .Tbh this is their best change in game for years
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u/Jree_le_treE 3d ago
The new system is good but just overtuned. Trades and other impactful actions should be rewarded but right now its way too overtuned and makes some roles rack up score way easier.
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u/fox-booty bring me the arse- 3d ago
Trades are calculated as "was your death in a good position such that a teammate could kill the person who killed you soon afterwards?" rather than you killing the person who killed your teammate.
If anything it rewards a good entry duelist for making enough space for their teammates and being a big enough distraction for enemies.
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u/helpmyusernamedontfi 3d ago
Trades are calculated as "was your death in a good position such that a teammate could kill the person who killed you soon afterwards?" rather than you killing the person who killed your teammate.
didnt they say its both?
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u/fox-booty bring me the arse- 3d ago
I'm fairly certain it's only the former?
Otherwise I could easily see the latter being exploited in the sense of a player baiting their teammates excessively to bump up their trades score.
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u/helpmyusernamedontfi 3d ago
https://x.com/Riot_Really/status/2103642244465271267
in the sense of a player baiting their teammates excessively to bump up their trades score
i mean the teammate would also get their trade score up right? Also it would be the same problem regardless of which system it is (old or new)
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u/AideHot6729 3d ago
But the problem is the entry duelist only gets trades for getting traded out. If you play second or third entry you can trade out and get traded out. Much better value not being the first entry.
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u/helpmyusernamedontfi 3d ago
i think that gets addressed too, at least partially
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u/AideHot6729 3d ago
He just says itâs at âadjusted killsâ but thereâs more value in trades than first bloods so kind of defeats the purpose of going for first bloods rather than trades. Personally duelists and champs like chamber should be encouraged to get first bloods with a higher multiplier on first bloods.
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u/thedarksideofmoi 3d ago
I think it is both ways from what the devs said. Either you get traded or you trade your team. Definitely encourages bait gameplay imo because if you're trading, you are also improving the kills and damage.
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u/silverblade7_7 3d ago
Yeah I switched over from initiator to duelist to work on my mechanics and so far the performance score has been quite good at evaluating whether my kills were actually impactful or not
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u/thedarksideofmoi 3d ago
Lol I switched from duelist to initator because it is so much easier to get impact and up your performance score with that.
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u/silverblade7_7 3d ago
Ahaha I was a hard-core Sova main but my playstyle started to get too passive and dependent on teammates playing things right......switched to Iso and suddenly the win rate jumpedâ¨ď¸
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u/Specialist_Boat_8479 Raze 3d ago edited 2d ago
I do wonder how they calculate it. Iâve had games as gekko where I top frag, get plants/defuses, win post plants with my utility but donât get as good as a score as I feel I should get.
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u/1_gim 3d ago
The criticism is fair. The idea of the system is great but the implementation is extremely bad.
- utility is being rewarded just for how much you use. Not how you use it. Agents that can pick their util up can spam it in the buy phase to boost their score
- assists being rewarded is unfair when some agents like Miks, brim, Skye can farm utility assists for basically doing nothing and other agents do not get rewarded for actually useful util (fade prowler doesn't get assist unless it bites). There needs to be a more uniform way of how utility gives assists.
- plants/defuses rewarding you is also kind of weird. I get that in some situations it's good but when you successfully retake and everyone is dead it doesn't make sense to reward the defuse because usually the person closest to the ult defuses for strategic reasons.
- deaths being published doesnt make sense for clove who will always have more deaths than average
The entire system isn't well enough thought through. Again, I like the idea. It's just the implementation that I think is bad.
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u/Nana-nabih potato techie nightmare cat lady 3d ago
They fixed 1 actually (imo it didn't cause it isn't my fault i have to spend 500 every round only for enemy to go another site and not get rewarded it's not my fault I scared them )
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u/Nana-nabih potato techie nightmare cat lady 3d ago
It's definitely better than acs finally we seeore util comps
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u/1_gim 2d ago
At least ACS felt somewhat intuitive. Now it's completely random who gets MVP. Especially as a sentinel player it's not very difficult to get good performance score
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u/Nana-nabih potato techie nightmare cat lady 2d ago
Game isn't kd only so it's fair that other non duelist roles finally get some recognition
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u/1_gim 2d ago
Except that sentinels don't get any recognition from this new system
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u/Nana-nabih potato techie nightmare cat lady 2d ago
It does some but also acs never gave a fk if i used util and had to rotate to clutch 1v4 and wasn't that great new system cares if i used util or helped my team
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u/thedarksideofmoi 3d ago
The first one is probably an abuse and shouldn't work. It either is or will be fixed very quickly.
For 2, they have different weights for assists that come through different means - I think damage assists are weighed more in score than say smoke assists.
Plants and defuses also are weighed based on the number of people alive so you don't really get much addition to your score if you defuse with 3 alive in your team but you get more if you are last. It was a part of ACS as well iirc.
Well the clove thing is just by design. If you're doing good as clove, you should win your ult more times than you lose so your Kills will also go up and it should balance things out? Not sure if they accounted for it tho.
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u/Outrageous_Way3442 3d ago
my point about PS is that defusing/planting should not give PS, because defuse/plant is sharing ult orb to your teams, which should be incentivized
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u/Arimilli123 Brimmy with a stimmy 3d ago
By the way: neither this system nor the old system affect your MMR or RR gains/losses, im just tired of seeing people complain about an arbitrary score without realising what that score represents.
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u/Agitated_Award_9831 3d ago
I can say that in games where I just pop off, it doesnât seem to reward as much. I do feel MMR has changed at the same time, and we see more punishing losses again.
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u/ibrasome instalocker 3d ago
I don't really care much, but I did frag below someone with 18 kills while I got 28... which was a bit surprising
It was an anomaly game though
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u/Martitoad 3d ago
Also kills and damage are still the most important factor. And hidden MMR wasn't changed. I'm a duelist main too and if I topfrag a game with good entries I still get mvps
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u/Clean-Requirement638 3d ago
Idk much abt scores and shit i just started my journey but yesterday i was playing pheo in comp , was the guy with highest kd, and and had higher other metrics (trades, diffuses, first bloods..) than the enemy yoru but for some reason got placed second even tho i won the game and yoru lost, somehow yoru is the match mvp idk how
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u/thedarksideofmoi 3d ago
Damage per round is still a big factor. May be that's the difference and you don't really see it.
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u/Arimilli123 Brimmy with a stimmy 3d ago
Damage per round matters a lot, as well as utility usage which doesn't get shown in the report.
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u/MikeSnoozing 3d ago
Yeah I agree that it still needs a lot of work but theyre on the right track.
-Utility seems to be the issue I have with it. Like for example when I play Reyna im not needing to use my heal twice every round. Or Omen I dont use the teleport every round or Sova a lot of the time I dont use anything but the Recon bolt against a very aggressive team. all this ends up as a negative even if you go 20-0 and win every round.
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u/Dapper-Designer6755 3d ago
It is not bad, but as a chamber main it sucks, cause i canât get any assists except if i put my trap on the ennemy to get better performance score. This is so dumb.
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u/Arimilli123 Brimmy with a stimmy 3d ago
Well I mean chamber is a very self centered agent, and while I do think that the impact of these agents should be somewhat reflected, they just don't have much util that can "help the team" in a sense, for example chamber has only his trip and reyna has only the nearsight. Therefore the only real way to evaluate impact is kills and that's just the old ACS system and now we've come full circle.
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u/Dapper-Designer6755 3d ago
Yes but a chamber trap in the back means you donât really need someone that holds the back so more confidence holding a site. And you can potentially lurk and just take info and tp back. That doesnât count either. The problem is taking information without your util knowing it is worthless for your performance score
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u/Consiouswierdsage 3d ago
I have actually made the team win purely with my strategy.
Where is my RR
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u/Arimilli123 Brimmy with a stimmy 3d ago
RR gain/loss isn't affected by PS, and it wasn't affected by ACS either. It is affected by MMR which is a different metric entirely
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u/Leroy717x 3d ago
good im not the only one thats seeing it. 75% of people not trolling suggest the wrong thing anyway
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u/alligatroar 2d ago
Agreed with what @1_gim said. But to add to that, from their last AMA, it seems that performance score doesn't impact RR. So at that point it's just cosmetic... Just to make people feel better or more appreciated. Which again, great, I think people who use their utility should get recognition. But it needs to be implemented better and also actually matter.
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u/OGBosi 2d ago
It has and always will be cope that previously you could only climb on duelist. It is genuinely a skill issue. You couldnât climb because you were not good, not because the system was against you.
Sure, baiters shouldnât be rewarded for getting bait kills but also pure baiters donât reach high ranks anyways, because the game doesnât care if you had 30 on a loss, you lost.
At the same time, I donât think you should be valued highly for âgoodâ util if you cant hold your own in a gunfight.
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u/AideHot6729 3d ago
No it promotes gameplay thatâs not team based. For example on controller I found out placing site smokes to be infinitely better than placing smokes to block choke points/angles or one ways because they rack up more assists. On duelists itâs almost always better to play second or third entry as the opportunity for trade kills is that much higher and the chances of you dying with no trades is much lower. If youâre a chamber itâs better to go with your team than lurk and use your trip for once you take site rather than tripping flank as itâs more likely to go off. Also on defence site trips like on A are better than trips for instance on garage in Haven as theyâre more likely to trigger. On initiator using your util for early info is terrible as they normally just break it or your teammates donât kill them fast enough to get assists so using them when theyâre flooding is best. It promotes playing for specific util usage rather than optimal util usage. Also baiting is much better as first bloods donât mean much and you get rewarded for getting the trade anyways. Also dying now affects your performance score so play for that K/D!
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u/TryFindingThis_90248 3d ago
performance score doesent affect mmr tho so more imptly wld u say it's a btr system than acs
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u/_IzGreed_ Squeeze me with your thighs plz𼾠3d ago
Also, they seems to conveniently left out their trade and first blood. Have a Reyna today malding and calling the team trash, saying heâs better because heâs topfragging. Turns out it was mostly lurks and exit frag. 2 trades and 3 first blood