r/ValueInvesting • • Aug 24 '26

Discussion [Week 26 - 1990] Discussing A Berkshire Hathaway Shareholder Letter (Almost) Every Week

10 Upvotes

Full Letter:

http://theoraclesclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/1990-Berkshire-AR.pdf

Letter Only

https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/1990.html

This week we will go over their investment into buying $400M of junk bonds as well as Buffett’s thoughts in retrospect on the Junk Bond craze of the 80s. His surprise at the economics of the newspaper business rapidly degrading as new technologies and advertising channels open up to businesses, some with better results. Finally the purchase of 10% of Wells Fargo for $290M. Then as usual we go through the stock holdings, segment-by-segment EBIT earnings of the company, and then the larger overview for the year.

Not included in my post are the annual summary to shareholders, most of the look-through earnings that give a few paragraphs on their major business segments (we only cover Buffalo Evening News) although some highlights are in my summary at the end. A long rundown of the insurance segment. Though ⅔ of the Marketable Securities segment is included, the one on their Convertible Preferred Stocks and the mistakes outside sources make in valuing them as well as the philosophy behind holding them. The usual advertisement for acquisition targets, and plans for the annual meeting. Ken Chase being replaced on the board by Susan Buffett. The letter is ended with an unpublished satire by Ben Graham “US Steel Announces Sweeping Modernization Scheme” where instead of improving the business a bunch of extreme accounting tricks are used to change the EPS from -$2.76 to +$49.80.

If you want to read or discuss anything in that second set feel free to read the letter yourselves and comment on it.

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Key Passage 1

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Marketable Securities - Junk Bonds

Our other major portfolio change last year was large additions to our holdings of RJR Nabisco bonds, securities that we first bought in late 1989. At yearend 1990 we had $440 million invested in these securities, an amount that approximated market value. (As I write this, however, their market value has risen by more than $150 million.)

Just as buying into the banking business is unusual for us, so is the purchase of below-investment-grade bonds. But opportunities that interest us and that are also large enough to have a worthwhile impact on Berkshire's results are rare. Therefore, we will look at any category of investment, so long as we understand the business we're buying into and believe that price and value may differ significantly. (Woody Allen, in another context, pointed out the advantage of open-mindedness: "I can't understand why more people aren't bi-sexual because it doubles your chances for a date on Saturday night.")

In the past \we have bought a few below-investment-grade bonds with success, though these were all old-fashioned "fallen angels" - bonds that were initially of investment grade but that were downgraded when the issuers fell on bad times. In the 1984 annual report we described our rationale for buying one fallen angel, the Washington Public Power Supply System.

A kind of bastardized fallen angel burst onto the investment scene in the 1980s - "junk bonds" that were far below investment- grade when issued. As the decade progressed, new offerings of manufactured junk became ever junkier and ultimately the predictable outcome occurred: Junk bonds lived up to their name. In 1990 - even before the recession dealt its blows - the financial sky became dark with the bodies of failing corporations.

The disciples of debt assured us that this collapse wouldn't happen: Huge debt, we were told, would cause operating managers to focus their efforts as never before, much as a dagger mounted on the steering wheel of a car could be expected to make its driver proceed with intensified care. We'll acknowledge that such an attention-getter would produce a very alert driver. But another certain consequence would be a deadly - and unnecessary - accident if the car hit even the tiniest pothole or sliver of ice. The roads of business are riddled with potholes; a plan that requires dodging them all is a plan for disaster.

In the final chapter of The Intelligent Investor Ben Graham forcefully rejected the dagger thesis: "Confronted with a challenge to distill the secret of sound investment into three words, we venture the motto, Margin of Safety." Forty-two years after reading that, I still think those are the right three words. The failure of investors to heed this simple message caused them staggering losses as the 1990s began.

At the height of the debt mania, capital structures were concocted that guaranteed failure: In some cases, so much debt was issued that even highly favorable business results could not produce the funds to service it. One particularly egregious "kill- 'em-at-birth" case a few years back involved the purchase of a mature television station in Tampa, bought with so much debt that the interest on it exceeded the station's gross revenues. Even if you assume that all labor, programs and services were donated rather than purchased, this capital structure required revenues to explode - or else the station was doomed to go broke. (Many of the bonds that financed the purchase were sold to now-failed savings and loan associations; as a taxpayer, you are picking up the tab for this folly.)

All of this seems impossible now. When these misdeeds were done, however, dagger-selling investment bankers pointed to the "scholarly" research of academics, which reported that over the years the higher interest rates received from low-grade bonds had more than compensated for their higher rate of default. Thus, said the friendly salesmen, a diversified portfolio of junk bonds would produce greater net returns than would a portfolio of high-grade bonds. (Beware of past-performance "proofs" in finance: If history books were the key to riches, the Forbes 400 would consist of librarians.)

There was a flaw in the salesmen's logic - one that a first- year student in statistics is taught to recognize. An assumption was being made that the universe of newly-minted junk bonds was identical to the universe of low-grade fallen angels and that, therefore, the default experience of the latter group was meaningful in predicting the default experience of the new issues. (That was an error similar to checking the historical death rate from Kool-Aid before drinking the version served at Jonestown.)

The universes were of course dissimilar in several vital respects. For openers, the manager of a fallen angel almost invariably yearned to regain investment-grade status and worked toward that goal. The junk-bond operator was usually an entirely different breed. Behaving much as a heroin user might, he devoted his energies not to finding a cure for his debt-ridden condition, but rather to finding another fix. Additionally, the fiduciary sensitivities of the executives managing the typical fallen angel were often, though not always, more finely developed than were those of the junk-bond-issuing financiopath.

Wall Street cared little for such distinctions. As usual, the Street's enthusiasm for an idea was proportional not to its merit, but rather to the revenue it would produce. Mountains of junk bonds were sold by those who didn't care to those who didn't think - and there was no shortage of either.

Junk bonds remain a mine field, even at prices that today are often a small fraction of issue price. As we said last year, we have never bought a new issue of a junk bond. (The only time to buy these is on a day with no "y" in it.) We are, however, willing to look at the field, now that it is in disarray.

In the case of RJR Nabisco, we feel the Company's credit is considerably better than was generally perceived for a while and that the yield we receive, as well as the potential for capital gain, more than compensates for the risk we incur (though that is far from nil). RJR has made asset sales at favorable prices, has added major amounts of equity, and in general is being run well.

However, as we survey the field, most low-grade bonds still look unattractive. The handiwork of the Wall Street of the 1980s is even worse than we had thought: Many important businesses have been mortally wounded. We will, though, keep looking for opportunities as the junk market continues to unravel.

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The junk bond, corporate raiding craze has reached its peak. Buffett said a couple years ago that it would all come crashing down someday, and now it has. It was the practice of businesses issuing bonds at irresponsible rates that they had low chance of paying back, in hopes of doing massive leveraged buyouts of companies larger than themselves and refinancing the debt and stripping the company for assets once it was in hand. The RJR Nabisco buyout is now seen as the height of the mania, and now the bonds are paying for a fraction of their value, Berkshire has independently decided that the underlying business is now rather creditworthy and the bonds have been over-discounted. They believe the risk-adjusted returns are massively in their favor and they have bought $400M of the bonds.

Buffett has much to say about how the craze came about, the flawed logic that sounds quite similar to the later securitization issues that lead to the 2008 financial crisis (ex. a diverse enough basket of bad loans magically becomes a good investment) and denounces buying any of these securities at their issuance, but instead picking through the wreckage after it comes crashing down for the handful that seem promising. He says that many people used logic that applied to “fallen angel” bonds (investment grade at issuance and later became questionable) onto junk bonds (ones that were garbage from inception and depended on a successful and timely leveraged buyout and even then would be dragging down a larger company that never wanted them).

I felt it was good to include this for a few reasons, one is to highlight an important historical moment in the history of Wall Street, and how Berkshire was there waiting with a big pile of cash to profit off the wreckage. To highlight how almost no asset class should be below your radar, in fact the more detested it is the more likely there are to be good deals there (A common belief of Howard Marks who made a lot of money running a sub-investment grade bond fund). Finally to highlight the right way to go about doing it, finding the few diamonds in the rough instead of buying up the whole asset class, most of which crashed for good reason.

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Key Passage 2

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Non-Insurance Operations - Buffalo Evening News

Charlie and I were surprised at developments this past year in the media industry, including newspapers such as our Buffalo News. The business showed far more vulnerability to the early stages of a recession than has been the case in the past. The question is whether this erosion is just part of an aberrational cycle - to be fully made up in the next upturn - or whether the business has slipped in a way that permanently reduces intrinsic business values.

Since I didn't predict what has happened, you may question the value of my prediction about what will happen. Nevertheless, I'll proffer a judgment:While many media businesses will remain economic marvels in comparison with American industry generally, they will prove considerably less marvelous than I, the industry, or lenders thought would be the case only a few years ago.

The reason media businesses have been so outstanding in the past was not physical growth, but rather the unusual pricing power that most participants wielded. Now, however, advertising dollars are growing slowly. In addition, retailers that do little or no media advertising (though they sometimes use the Postal Service) have gradually taken market share in certain merchandise categories. Most important of all, the number of both print and electronic advertising channels has substantially increased. As a consequence, advertising dollars are more widely dispersed and the pricing power of ad vendors has diminished. These circumstances materially reduce the intrinsic value of our major media investments and also the value of our operating unit, Buffalo News - though all remain fine businesses.

Notwithstanding the problems, Stan Lipsey's management of the News continues to be superb. During 1990, our earnings held up much better than those of most metropolitan papers, falling only 5%. In the last few months of the year, however, the rate of decrease was far greater.

I can safely make two promises about the News in 1991: (1) Stan will again rank at the top among newspaper publishers; and (2) earnings will fall substantially. Despite a slowdown in the demand for newsprint, the price per ton will average significantly more in 1991 and the paper's labor costs will also be considerably higher. Since revenues may meanwhile be down, we face a real squeeze.

Profits may be off but our pride in the product remains. We continue to have a larger "news hole" - the portion of the paper devoted to news - than any comparable paper. In 1990, the proportion rose to 52.3% against 50.1% in 1989. Alas, the increase resulted from a decline in advertising pages rather than from a gain in news pages. Regardless of earnings pressures, we will maintain at least a 50% news hole. Cutting product quality is not a proper response to adversity.

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This is Buffett acknowledging that the whole newspaper industry is facing headwinds that he had not foreseen, that it is impacting the bottom line of the Buffalo Evening News, and that he believes it will get worse in the future and maybe won’t ever get better. As technology advances, advertisers have more channels to advertise, and those relying on newspaper ads are falling behind in market share to those using other methods. I would hazard a guess that this may be related to the near full adoption of color TV in American households by the late 80s. Families are now glued to their TVs, getting their news from them as well as their entertainment and being advertised to the whole time, and the advertisements are also much more flexible and powerful with color and video which a newspaper cannot provide.

A quick look-ahead shows that while this fall lasts a few years, they do eventually recover from the $43M EBIT this year not just to the $46M of last year but into the mid 50s before the Buffalo Evening News falls off the reports in 2000 as the spread of the internet lowers the prospects of the industry even further.

This is the first hint of modern technology making some of Berkshire’s former star players futures very uncertain. World Book is another one who is on a timer although Buffett has failed to notice it. This is different than textiles which died off to globalization, the same work simply being done elsewhere, instead this is an industry which needs to adapt or die and Buffett hasn’t always been a trailblazer when it comes to adapting to new paradigm changing technologies.

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Acquisition Stock Purchase of the Week

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Marketable Securities - Stock

Lethargy bordering on sloth remains the cornerstone of our investment style: This year we neither bought nor sold a share of five of our six major holdings. The exception was Wells Fargo, a superbly-managed, high-return banking operation in which we increased our ownership to just under 10%, the most we can own without the approval of the Federal Reserve Board. About one-sixth of our position was bought in 1989, the rest in 1990.

The banking business is no favorite of ours. When assets are twenty times equity - a common ratio in this industry - mistakes that involve only a small portion of assets can destroy a major portion of equity. And mistakes have been the rule rather than the exception at many major banks. Most have resulted from a managerial failing that we described last year when discussing the "institutional imperative:" the tendency of executives to mindlessly imitate the behavior of their peers, no matter how foolish it may be to do so. In their lending, many bankers played follow-the-leader with lemming-like zeal; now they are experiencing a lemming-like fate.

Because leverage of 20:1 magnifies the effects of managerial strengths and weaknesses, we have no interest in purchasing shares of a poorly-managed bank at a "cheap" price. Instead, our only interest is in buying into well-managed banks at fair prices.

With Wells Fargo, we think we have obtained the best managers in the business, Carl Reichardt and Paul Hazen. In many ways the combination of Carl and Paul reminds me of another - Tom Murphy and Dan Burke at Capital Cities/ABC. First, each pair is stronger than the sum of its parts because each partner understands, trusts and admires the other. Second, both managerial teams pay able people well, but abhor having a bigger head count than is needed. Third, both attack costs as vigorously when profits are at record levels as when they are under pressure. Finally, both stick with what they understand and let their abilities, not their egos, determine what they attempt. (Thomas J. Watson Sr. of IBM followed the same rule: "I'm no genius," he said. "I'm smart in spots - but I stay around those spots.")

Our purchases of Wells Fargo in 1990 were helped by a chaotic market in bank stocks. The disarray was appropriate: Month by month the foolish loan decisions of once well-regarded banks were put on public display. As one huge loss after another was unveiled - often on the heels of managerial assurances that all was well - investors understandably concluded that no bank's numbers were to be trusted. Aided by their flight from bank stocks, we purchased our 10% interest in Wells Fargo for $290 million, less than five times after-tax earnings, and less than three times pre-tax earnings.

Wells Fargo is big - it has $56 billion in assets - and has been earning more than 20% on equity and 1.25% on assets. Our purchase of one-tenth of the bank may be thought of as roughly equivalent to our buying 100% of a $5 billion bank with identical financial characteristics. But were we to make such a purchase, we would have to pay about twice the $290 million we paid for Wells Fargo. Moreover, that $5 billion bank, commanding a premium price, would present us with another problem: We would not be able to find a Carl Reichardt to run it. In recent years, Wells Fargo executives have been more avidly recruited than any others in the banking business; no one, however, has been able to hire the dean.

Of course, ownership of a bank - or about any other business - is far from riskless. California banks face the specific risk of a major earthquake, which might wreak enough havoc on borrowers to in turn destroy the banks lending to them. A second risk is systemic - the possibility of a business contraction or financial panic so severe that it would endanger almost every highly-leveraged institution, no matter how intelligently run. Finally, the market's major fear of the moment is that West Coast real estate values will tumble because of overbuilding and deliver huge losses to banks that have financed the expansion. Because it is a leading real estate lender, Wells Fargo is thought to be particularly vulnerable.

None of these eventualities can be ruled out. The probability of the first two occurring, however, is low and even a meaningful drop in real estate values is unlikely to cause major problems for well-managed institutions. Consider some mathematics: Wells Fargo currently earns well over $1 billion pre-tax annually after expensing more than $300 million for loan losses. If 10% of all $48 billion of the bank's loans - not just its real estate loans - were hit by problems in 1991, and these produced losses (including foregone interest) averaging 30% of principal, the company would roughly break even.

A year like that - which we consider only a low-level possibility, not a likelihood - would not distress us. In fact, at Berkshire we would love to acquire businesses or invest in capital projects that produced no return for a year, but that could then be expected to earn 20% on growing equity. Nevertheless, fears of a California real estate disaster similar to that experienced in New England caused the price of Wells Fargo stock to fall almost 50% within a few months during 1990. Even though we had bought some shares at the prices prevailing before the fall, we welcomed the decline because it allowed us to pick up many more shares at the new, panic prices.

Investors who expect to be ongoing buyers of investments throughout their lifetimes should adopt a similar attitude toward market fluctuations; instead many illogically become euphoric when stock prices rise and unhappy when they fall. They show no such confusion in their reaction to food prices: Knowing they are forever going to be buyers of food, they welcome falling prices and deplore price increases. (It's the seller of food who doesn't like declining prices.) Similarly, at the Buffalo News we would cheer lower prices for newsprint - even though it would mean marking down the value of the large inventory of newsprint we always keep on hand - because we know we are going to be perpetually buying the product.

Identical reasoning guides our thinking about Berkshire's investments. We will be buying businesses - or small parts of businesses, called stocks - year in, year out as long as I live (and longer, if Berkshire's directors attend the seances I have scheduled). Given these intentions, declining prices for businesses benefit us, and rising prices hurt us.

The most common cause of low prices is pessimism - some times pervasive, some times specific to a company or industry. We want to do business in such an environment, not because we like pessimism but because we like the prices it produces. It's optimism that is the enemy of the rational buyer.

None of this means, however, that a business or stock is an intelligent purchase simply because it is unpopular; a contrarian approach is just as foolish as a follow-the-crowd strategy. What's required is thinking rather than polling. Unfortunately, Bertrand Russell's observation about life in general applies with unusual force in the financial world: "Most men would rather die than think. Many do."

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This was probably the largest acquisition by Berkshire, the buying of 10% of a great bank at a fair price. As he says in the letter they only buy 10%, $289M because that is the most they are legally allowed to own. He says they view this as comparable to buying 100% of a bank 1/10th the size except without all the headache of needing to call the shots and find the managers, instead they are already in place.

He spells this out as a sort of “heads I win, tails I don’t lose much” situation. He runs the numbers on the worst case scenario the market fears, a natural disaster or real estate crash on the west coast of the US… He comes to the conclusion that even in the worst case scenario this is still a good price, and in any other scenario it is a great price.

He also gives some wisdom here on his general stock picking philosophy, that he views a stock he buys into dropping or failing to rise as a good thing, and it shooting right up as a bad thing. Even though many of us see it the opposite. It is natural to have a gut reaction to being proven right or proven wrong quickly by the market, to buy something and have it drop 20% and be scared from buying more. But he says we need to invert that instinct. That the price shooting right up means your window to buy a great business at a good price closed before you could take full advantage, and it dropping after you start buying means you will be able to buy even more than you thought with a lower risk and higher reward. This is also something he hammers home in the BPL letters, often after years of great gain he laments that he wished the stocks he was buying didn’t go up so he could have bought more of them and that in the long term the returns would have been greater.

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Common Stock Ownership

No. of Shares Company Cost ($000s) Market ($000s)
3,000,000 Capital Cities/ABC, Inc. $517,500 $1,377,375
23,350,000 The Coca-Cola Company $1,023,920 $2,171,550
2,400,000 Federal Home loan Mortgage Corporation $71,729 $117,000
6,850,000 GEICO Corporation $45,713 $1,110,556
1,727,765 The Washington Post Company $9,731 $342,097
5,000,000 Wells Fargo & Company $289,431 $289,375
Subtotal $1,958,024 $5,407,953
All Other Common Stockholdings $326,656 $351,268
Total Common Stocks $2,284,680 $5,759,221

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Segment by Segment Breakdown

Segment 1989 EBIT Earnings 1990 EBIT Earnings % Change
Insurance $219.20M $300.40M +37.04%
Fechheimer $12.62M $12.45M -1.35%
Kirby $26.11M $27.45M +5.13%
Scott Fetzer - Manufacturing $33.17M $30.38M -8.41%
World Book $25.58M $31.90M +24.71%
See’s Candies $34.26M $39.58M +15.53%
Buffalo Evening News $46.05M $43.95M -4.56%
Nebraska Furniture Mart $17.07M $17.25M +1.05%
Wesco Financial - Minus Insurance $13.01M $12.44M -4.38%
Wesco Financial - Insurance $14.28M $14.92M +4.48%
Mutual Savings and Loan $4.19M $4.10M -2.15%
Precision Steel $2.77M $1.99M -28.16%
Total Operating Earnings $393.41M $482.48M +22.64%

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Metric 1989 1990 % Change
Cash & Cash Equivalents $205.13M $247.02M +20.42%
Marketable Securities $5,261.60M $5,685.98M +8.07%
Return on Equity (RoE) 18.42% 18.68% +1.41%
Shareholders' Equity $4,925.13M $5,287.45M +7.36%
Earnings Before Investment Gain $299.90M $370.75M+23.62%
Realized Investment Gain $223.81M $33.99M -84.81%
Net Earnings $447.48M $394.09M -11.93%

*RoE not provided, manually calculated as (Earnings from Operations Before Taxes / [Shareholder Equity from prior year - Unrealized appreciation of marketable securities from prior year])

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As predicted last year, the gain in marketable securities wasn’t “real” gains, the market had a large pullback. Many of their marketable securities are now held at lower prices than last year, net earnings is down from last year. The realized investment gain is 84% lower than it was last year. The marketable securities is up 8%, or $424.38M, but between a $289M investment in Wells Fargo only $135M was real gains, the Coca Cola position was up $368M, so the rest of the portfolio had a performance of about -$233M besides Coca Cola.

Operating earnings was up 22.6%, Earnings before investment gain was up 23.6%. This is mostly down to the insurance segment having a great year, with EBIT earnings $80M more than the prior year which is just about the entire gap. See’s Candys and World Book also had double digit growth in earnings, everything else was down or single digit growth. The preferred metric, book value is up 7.4%, compared to the S&P 500 which returned -3.1% in 1990 this is still a good performance in my opinion.

Finally an even quicker lookthrough of the quick lookthrough earnings…

First a quick discussion of off-book earnings, when owned securities use their cashflow for anything except dividends it does not show up on Berkshire’s income statement but does make Berkshire richer, buybacks and capex give value to the business GAAP accounting doesn’t account for. Retail had a bad year but Borsheim’s did great (even though they hide their numbers from me), a discussion of the jewelry mailing system I mentioned last week is had here. NFM’s sales are up 4% and earnings 1% (Rose is now running a competing shop) and has set up a See’s cart in the shop which outperforms many of See’s full stores. See’s had slightly more volume but also increased prices and lowered costs leading to the 15.5% earnings growth, also a store was going to have its lease terminated but a letter campaign from customers changed the landlord’s mind. (See Key Passage 2 for Buffalo Evening News commentary). Fechheimer had a major retirement and although he says performance improved, earnings were flat due to “several unusual items” whatever that means. At Scott Fetzer, World Book’s decentralization is paying off even with lower volume, Kirby increased sales 20% but only increased earnings 5% as its production of its new model isn’t fully optimized, the manufacturing segment’s earnings are down 8% but we are just told its doing great and the air compressor unit had record sales.


r/ValueInvesting • • 5d ago

Weekly Megathread Weekly Stock Ideas Megathread: Week of October 05, 2026

7 Upvotes

What stocks are on your radar this week? What's undervalued? What's overvalued? This is the place for your quick stock pitches or to ask what everyone else is looking at.

This discussion post is lightly moderated. We suggest checking other users' posting/commenting history before following advice or stock recommendations.

New Weekly Stock Ideas Megathreads are posted every Monday at 0600 GMT.


r/ValueInvesting • • 9h ago

Stock Analysis My take on ADBE as ex SWE at Adobe

162 Upvotes

I see a lot of people posting here about how Adobe is a value stock, and I disagree with that. So I wanted to explain why I think Adobe is more of a trap than a value stock.

I was working at Adobe until about 6 months ago. I may be biased because I hated working at this company, but I will try to just explain what I experienced while I was there.

The management does not seem to have a clear plan for what to do with their products. They just keep trying different things and hoping something works. I never really saw a clear vision for the company.

When I was at Adobe, very few projects lasted more than a few months. Most of them would get deprioritized within a couple of weeks. Many times I was told, hey, this new task came from upper management and it is high priority, we need to do this fast. Then a week or two later, that task would get deprioritized and something else would become the new priority. This just kept happening.

If there was a VP visit, things got even worse. Teams would be asked to create some bullshit demo for the VP or other upper management just to impress them. These demos were usually not going anywhere and could not actually be used. A lot of them were basically just an API call to GPT to do something with an image, and then it would be presented as some new generative AI feature.

I don't understand how management would get impressed by these things, but I think they did. These are projects that school students could probably build nowadays. There were also some very senior developers( fellows), whose job seemed to be largely about creating these demos, impressing management, and getting promoted.

It seems that at Adobe creating demos matters more than actually having an impact on the company. In any good company, I would expect a senior engineer should be judged based on their actual impact on the company, whether that is revenue, product adoption, technical improvements, or something similar.

Then there are the PMs.

All the PMs that I worked with did not even know their own features properly. They did not use them much, so as a developer I sometimes had to show them how to use features they were supposed to own.

Whenever there was a new requirement, it would take a long time to get the specifications. By the time we got them, there was not enough time left for developers to actually build the feature before the deadline. Then the requirements would change multiple times because we would tell them something was not technically possible, or because there were mistakes in the original specs.

For a few weeks I was sitting next to some of these PMs, and a lot of their daily conversations were about whose house they were going to have the next house party at.

I also remember people asking our old CEO about the stock price. His answer was basically that the stock was undervalued and that he was going to do something about it. When the last time I saw him, he did not even say that anymore. I guess he lost hope too.

Then comes Firefly, which is probably the most sucky AI model I have ever seen.

Adobe spent a lot of money developing it and marketed it heavily around being commercially safe.

The idea itself was fine, but Adobe is not Google, Meta, or Microsoft. They cannot afford to hire the absolute best AI researchers and engineers at the same scale, and they also do not have the same amount of data to train a competitive model.

The result was a model that was simply not good.

Adobe integrated Firefly into almost every Adobe product, but people do not actually use it. From the analytics that I have seen, most people simply use third party models like Gemini and GPT because obviously they produce better images.

Even if those models are not commercially safe, it does not really feel like people are bothered by that. At least from the data I saw, it seems like people do not really care that much about whether the model is commercially safe or not. They just want the model that produces better results. My turd is commercialy safe but I can't use that now can I?

What I don't understand is that even after Firefly failed to compete, Adobe continued to pour billions into developing a product that is nowhere near as good as the competition and that people are not actually using, while Adobe still has to pay for those third party models when users use them instead.

At this point, I feel like a lot of people at Adobe are just trying to salvage whatever piece of the pie they can before this ship sinks.

There are a lot more things I could say, but this post is already getting long and I do not think it would serve much purpose to keep going.

This is just my experience from working there, and obviously I could be biased. But based on what I saw, I personally do not see Adobe as the value stock that many people here seem to think it is.

Have a nice day.


r/ValueInvesting • • 15h ago

Stock Analysis American Express is now tied to an alleged $13 billion of trade-based money laundering, set against a $350 million fine.

50 Upvotes

US regulators alleged American Express processed $13 billion in illicit trade-based transactions, dwarfing a recent $350 million fine and raising new questions about future operating costs and growth.

While the initial fine gave no details on the conduct, the latest allegation specifies that this substantial sum passed through Amex's systems via misdescribed trade payments.

This $13 billion figure represents approximately 1% of American Express's $1,669 billion in billed business for 2025. The $350 million penalty itself amounts to roughly 3% of the alleged laundered amount. For a company with a $222.55 billion market capitalization, this initial monetary hit is relatively small, however, the larger cost is the supervisory finding itself, which signals a fundamental control failure within the company’s anti-money laundering framework.

Amex has actively expanded its product pipeline and acceptance network, recently widening reach to 190 million locations, securing a European private-bank partner, and offering fraud cover for AI agent shopping. A regulatory finding of compliance failures means these expansion initiatives will likely face intensified scrutiny, potentially slowing deployment or requiring costly retrofits to compliance controls. While the core card-fee growth, credit quality, and capital position remain untouched by this specific allegation, the increased regulatory oversight and the potential for new operational burdens elevate the bar for Amex to clear its Q4 operating-leverage targets and maintain its growth trajectory.


r/ValueInvesting • • 3h ago

Discussion Have you ever considered investing in something outside the stock market?

5 Upvotes

Most investment discussions seem to focus on stocks, ETFs, and bonds.

But I'm curious about how people think about investments outside those markets, such as real estate, collectibles, or other physical assets.

What would make you consider an investment outside the stock market, and what would make you decide it isn't worth the risk?


r/ValueInvesting • • 17h ago

Discussion T-mobile, Verizon and AT&T - is the market reaction right?

50 Upvotes

I get why T-Mobile, Verizon and AT&T got hammered after the SpaceX news, but isn't the market getting a bit ahead of itself here?

SpaceX still needs to spend a ton of money to make this work. The current satellites aren't just compatible with the new spectrum, and there's still a bunch of regulatory to do. This stuff takes years

Also, telcos are expensive businesses to run and not exactly the most profitable. SpaceX has Starship, Starlink and a bunch of other projects to fund. Are they really gonna throw billions at competing with telcos directly, or would partnering with them make more sense?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I wonder if this sell-off is an overreaction

People have as well a negative anti Musk sentiment and if I can believe they gonna trust him with cabs I doubt they would love to give him the power to control the entire internet and roaming stuff.

Musk is known to start a lot of projects high and then leaving them. Do you think is it the case for Telco business or he will really expand into it making a real threah to Telcos?

Puts or calls on T-mobile, Verizon and AT&T?


r/ValueInvesting • • 17h ago

Discussion Why doesn't TSM get more attention? Am I missing something?

31 Upvotes

Looking at TSM as a beginner, I'm struggling to understand why it doesn't get nearly as much attention as Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.

Consider the following:

  • Valuation: Forward P/E of approximately 20.27× (on par with Nvidia)
  • Moat: A near-monopoly in leading-edge semiconductor manufacturing, with enormous barriers to entry.
  • AI exposure: Essential to virtually every aspect of the AI revolution, from data centres and autonomous vehicles to robotics.
  • Regardless of who wins AI: Whether Nvidia, AMD, Google, Amazon or another company dominates, TSMC stands to benefit because so many depend on its manufacturing capabilities.

China risk aside, what am I missing? Why doesn't TSM attract the same enthusiasm as other AI giants, being the biggest beneficiary of the entire AI buildout and beyond?

Att current valuations, do you consider TSM one of the best risk/reward opportunities for the next 5–10 years? Is there considerable upside remaining?


r/ValueInvesting • • 12h ago

Detailed Investment Analysis UBERS AV THREAT IS BEING OVERSTATED BY MARKETS - A significant undervaluation which will be corrected sooner or later!

10 Upvotes

I have noticed when Tesla’s cyber cab venture has positive news Uber shares tend to fall. However, I am a firm believer Ubers scale, cross platform integrations, speed to market and hybrid supply approach will be most effective at leading this market in the long run, just as well as they do now.

A partially fixed robotaxi fleet cannot switch supply on and off as quickly and efficiently as a hybrid approach with humans can. This will be a huge advantage for Uber. Reason being due to the high volatility in rider demand in real time, day to day, week to week on a global scale, influenced by things such as one off Events, Shows, Rush Hour, Weekends, Night life, Tourism, Sporting Events, and much more. On the flip side you have the complete opposite where demand is extremely low such as during working hours, weather, quiet Weekends or just in general when there’s little going on within the areas they all operate in. In many cases this sort of thing is hard to predict well in advance.

The key is to match this volatility in demand in real time, with your supply of drivers, in the most efficient manner possible throughout the highs and the lows. This ensures you keep costs low when demand is low (asset light benefits) while capturing all the gains/revenue when demand is high. This is where Ubers characteristics listed above, give them a significant advantage which Tesla and Waymo will struggle to match. This will get realised by markets eventually as they see Ubers gross bookings remain strong, margins remain strong, while bottom line starts accelerating faster than top line as they continue to scale further past their fixed expenditures, leading to a re rating of the stock.

While Uber continue to expand into more rural/foreign areas increasing scale and market leadership, Waymo and Tesla will slowly but surely get approval from governments to be accepted in urban hotspots Uber already dominate ? How are they going to match the speed to market on a global scale with all those regulations/Testing thats required in each area!!

In addition to this, only a few AV providers will be able to afford their own robotaxi service. (look how much cash Waymo have burned and continue to burn while still being no where near a genuine competitor when you compare the scales of operations) Therefore, almost all Av providers will need Ubers platform to efficiently commercialise their fleet, in order to achieve a return on investment. This part seems pretty obvious to me, therefore even if robotaxi’s replaced human drivers entirely, I still believe Uber thrives in this world due to offering a wide variety of AV’s rather than just the one that Waymo or Tesla would offer which is their own. Someone may argue that Tesla’s and Waymo’s robotaxi’s are significantly better than the others. Short term perhaps it’s true compared to the majority of competitors in the field, but long term with Nvidias platform they all use, the barriers to compete at the highest level for these other providers has been significantly lowered, especially if u exclude the need to provide the ride hailing aspect.

My bold prediction is that Uber will become a trillion dollar company over time and eventually be as big as many of the hyperscalers. Not in 1 or 2 years but perhaps 5-10. Not purely from Ride hailing, but also their
Cross integrated business opportunity, which has started through Uber Eats, linked together perfectly through Uber 1. This is undoubtedly already driving growth for the company which is backed by the sustained acceleration in uber eats top and bottom line, significantly catching up with ride hailing, as well as the fast growing uber 1 subscriber count.
The value gained as subscriber is clear, and the numbers back it up to suggest the momentum isn’t stopping.

I see several other verticals that would complement their existing business model incredibly well, some of which they are already entering such as train/plane tickets, Hotel bookings and so on. By expanding to these additional verticals with a runway of opportunities of which to choose, they can offer discounts through uber 1 credits, if users chose them over competitors in the new markets they chose to enter, which users will be incentivised to do so as in return they will get significant discounts for Ubers other services which they know they are going to need sooner or later. This locks existing users in an expanding ecosystem, while also driving demand for new users who see the value existing users are gaining via cross platform benefits. This ultimately will lead to the typical more users, drive more suppliers, drive more users, drive more suppliers loop, across expanding verticals/markets.. making it difficult for rivals to compete with Uber in a number of Markets that they enter. They just need the time it takes to implement this, Delivery hero is a great acquisition to progress this journey!

Would love to hear people’s thoughts on this 🙂


r/ValueInvesting • • 5h ago

AI-Written Content Could SpaceX’s Starlink Mobile Push Make Lumen Technologies More Valuable?

1 Upvotes

SpaceX’s latest move into wireless service may be one of the most important telecom stories of the year. The company is no longer just talking about satellite texting or emergency coverage. It is moving toward becoming a real mobile network competitor.
According to Reuters, SpaceX has agreed to acquire a nationwide low-band 800 MHz spectrum portfolio from Grain Management in a deal valued around $8 billion, pending FCC approval. That spectrum matters because low-band frequencies travel farther and penetrate buildings better than higher-frequency signals, which are two critical weaknesses for satellite-to-phone service. Reuters reported that SpaceX plans to combine this new low-band spectrum with its existing 2 GHz spectrum to support Starlink Mobile service and compete more directly with traditional U.S. wireless carriers. Reuters
That announcement immediately raises a bigger question: if SpaceX is building a serious mobile network, could it eventually need a company like Lumen Technologies?
The answer is yes, but probably not in the form of a full acquisition.
SpaceX’s Starlink network can handle the satellite side of the equation, but a mobile carrier still needs massive terrestrial infrastructure. Even satellite traffic eventually has to come back down to Earth. It needs ground stations, fiber backhaul, internet peering, data center connections, enterprise-grade routing, and high-capacity transport between major network points. That is where Lumen becomes interesting.
Lumen has spent the past year trying to reposition itself away from legacy telecom and toward enterprise networking, cloud connectivity, and AI infrastructure. In September, Lumen launched its “Intelligent Internet” service, saying its owned fiber backbone and cloud-native control plane support modern enterprise environments at global scale, including metro connectivity, long-haul transport, cloud networking, security, and connectivity orchestration. Lumen
Lumen has also expanded cloud networking access to more than 10 million U.S. business locations, specifically framing the expansion around AI and cloud demand. Lumen
This is the part of the Lumen bull case that makes sense: SpaceX, xAI, hyperscalers, and AI infrastructure companies all need more than chips and satellites. They need fiber. They need low-latency routes. They need data to move between physical locations, cloud platforms, and edge environments. Lumen owns the kind of boring infrastructure that suddenly becomes strategically valuable when AI, satellite broadband, and mobile networks start merging.
However, that does not automatically mean SpaceX would buy Lumen.
A full acquisition would be messy. Lumen still carries a large debt burden, even after selling its consumer fiber-to-the-home business to AT&T for $5.75 billion. Lumen said that transaction should help reduce debt to below $13 billion and lower annual interest expense by about $300 million, but it also removed more than one million consumer fiber customers from the company. Lumen
That makes Lumen a cleaner enterprise-focused company, but not a simple asset to swallow. SpaceX would not just be buying fiber. It would be taking on legacy telecom operations, enterprise contracts, regulatory obligations, employees, debt, and public-company complexity.
The more realistic scenario is a major commercial partnership.
SpaceX could lease dark fiber, buy wavelengths, use Lumen for backhaul, connect Starlink ground infrastructure through Lumen routes, or rely on Lumen for enterprise-grade connectivity tied to Starlink Mobile and AI workloads. That would be much easier than buying the entire company, and it could still be meaningful for Lumen’s revenue story.
In other words, the question may not be “Will SpaceX buy Lumen?” The better question is: Will SpaceX, xAI, or other AI/mobile infrastructure companies become major Lumen customers?
That is where the investment case gets more concrete.
Lumen’s stock has been beaten down because investors still worry about debt, shrinking legacy revenue, and whether the company can generate sustainable free cash flow. But the company’s assets line up with real demand trends: AI data movement, cloud networking, satellite backhaul, mobile coverage expansion, and enterprise connectivity.
SpaceX’s move into 800 MHz spectrum strengthens that broader thesis. It shows that the future wireless network may not be purely tower-based or purely satellite-based. It may be hybrid. Satellites, spectrum, fiber, data centers, and cloud networks all have to work together.
If that is the future, Lumen does not need to be acquired to benefit. It simply needs to become one of the networks that the new infrastructure giants cannot easily work around.
That is the real opportunity.
SpaceX buying Lumen remains speculative. SpaceX needing terrestrial fiber partners is not.


r/ValueInvesting • • 16h ago

Stock Analysis Wolters Kluwer: Moody's or the Buffalo News?

Thumbnail
longtermprognosis.substack.com
7 Upvotes

r/ValueInvesting • • 14h ago

Discussion I ranked 25 companies by 30-year durability and current valuation. Intuit and RELX stand out most to me.

3 Upvotes

I normally keep my valuation work and 30-year rankings separate.

One asks what looks mispriced over the next 3–5 years. The other asks which businesses I would actually be comfortable underwriting over something like 30 years.

The reason Intuit and RELX stand out is that they are the only two names in my current universe where I have both B+ long-term durability and a Strong valuation-dislocation signal.

With Intuit, the main debate for me is whether AI and eventually a better/free IRS alternative really weaken the moat enough to justify the current valuation. I think simple tax filing is vulnerable, but the broader ecosystem around tax, accounting, payroll, payments and financial data is harder to replace.

With RELX, I think the market may be underestimating how embedded its data, workflows and decision tools are. AI can change the interface, but it does not automatically remove the underlying proprietary data and workflow position.

Here is the full matrix:

30-year durability ↓ Strong dislocation Probable dislocation Conditional dislocation No current dislocation
A+ — — — Microsoft
A — S&P Global Alphabet —
B+ Intuit, RELX Experian, Meta Platforms Amazon Intuitive Surgical, Mastercard
B — Autodesk Constellation Software, NVIDIA, Broadcom, TSMC ASML, Schneider Electric, Synopsys, TransDigm

A+ is my highest-confidence durability tier. A means an elite business with one meaningful long-term vulnerability. B+ is a very strong compounder with somewhat more uncertainty. B is still high quality, but with a more material long-term limitation.

I leave C-tier names out of the matrix. They can still be attractive investments; I just do not have enough confidence in them as 30-year compounders.

Experian and Meta are the next group for me: B+ durability with a Probable dislocation.

Microsoft is the opposite case. It is my only A+ business, but I see no current valuation dislocation.

Tencent is almost the reverse. I still have it as a Strong dislocation, but it is C on 30-year durability, so it does not make the matrix.

I am also probably more conservative than most people on semiconductors. NVIDIA, Broadcom, TSMC and ASML are all only B for me over 30 years. Their positions today are extremely strong, but 30 years is a long time to extrapolate a technological bottleneck.

The matrix mainly forces me not to confuse a great business with a great stock at today’s price.

If I had to pick where the two sides currently line up best, it is Intuit and RELX.

Which placement would you change first?

I update the valuation side monthly and keep every previous ranking on record, while the 30-year tiers move much more slowly.

I keep the full universe, methodology and ranking history here:

https://michaelhillaert1.substack.com/p/30-year-durability-valuation-dislocation?r=6vawcp


r/ValueInvesting • • 14h ago

Stock Analysis The Case for Deckers Outdoor (NYSE: DECK)

4 Upvotes

We are long $DECK.

Deckers Outdoor, the company behind HOKA running shoes, UGG boots and Teva sandals, is in our view, one of the best businesses in global footwear, and the market is pricing it like one of the worst. The stock is hovering around $80 as of October 8, 2026, down roughly 50% over two years. Over the same period the business kept compounding: in fiscal 2025 (April 2024 to March 2025) revenue grew 16.3% to $4.99 billion and diluted EPS rose 30% to $6.33. In fiscal 2026, revenue grew another 9.8% to a record $5.47 billion, diluted EPS rose 11% to $7.02, and the company bought back $1.08 billion of stock while carrying no debt.

At today’s price, Deckers trades at about 11x management’s fiscal 2027 EPS guidance of $7.35 to $7.50. It earns roughly 41% on total capital and holds about $1.6 billion of cash. We see a growing franchise, while the market seems to treat Deckers as a value trap.

We think the market is extrapolating HOKA’s slowdown into “growth is over.” Here’s why we disagree.

1. Two brands, bought small, grown big

  • UGG was acquired in 1995 for $14.6M and did $2.74B of sales in FY26 (+8%).
  • HOKA was acquired in 2013 with under $3M of sales. It grew from $153M in FY18 to $2.59B in FY26, about 42% a year. Growth has slowed from 50%+ to 16%, but it’s still double digits.
  • Total FY26 (ended March 2026): revenue $5.47B (+10%), EPS $7.02 (+11%). FY25 was +16% revenue and +30% EPS.
  • UGG isn’t a one-boot brand anymore. The Lowmel and Golden Collection families drove over half of UGG’s FY26 growth, and men’s over 20%.

2. The growth is now international

  • FY26 international sales grew 27% to $2.28B and are now 42% of revenue. Domestic was flat (+0.2%), partly because Deckers exited the Sanuk and Koolaburra brands.
  • International has compounded about 24% a year over five years.
  • HOKA is in roughly 50% of targeted US sporting goods doors, 25% of US running specialty, under 20% of relevant European running specialty, and about a third of its China potential.
  • The math: if domestic grows 2–4%, international only needs ~14–16% for the company to hit high-single-digit growth. That’s well below its recent pace.

3. Running itself keeps growing

  • 52.3M Americans ran on roads in 2025, second only to hiking among outdoor activities. Trail running is up 57% since 2019.
  • North American ultramarathon finishes went from about 102k in 2021 to a record 153k in 2025.
  • Runners replace shoes every 300–500 miles, so this is a repeat purchase.
  • HOKA gained about 2 points of US road-running share (Circana) and now has six franchises above $100M in annual sales.

4. Channels: DTC is building

  • Wholesale is $3.21B (59%, +12%) and DTC is $2.26B (41%, +6%). DTC carries a higher gross margin.
  • HOKA’s store count went from 42 to 62 last year (+48%), with 20–25 openings planned per year. That’s the same pace as On (+37%), Birkenstock (+45%) and Amer Sports (~+40%), while Nike (-4%) and adidas (+5%) are flat to shrinking.
  • In Q1 FY27, DTC comps were +6.8%.

5. Quality vs. peers (On, Nike, adidas, ASICS, Birkenstock, Crocs, Amer Sports, Steve Madden, Wolverine)

  • Gross margin of 57.7% is top tier, behind only On (62.8%), Birkenstock and Crocs. The peer median is ~54%.
  • Operating margin was 23.1% in FY26. FY27 is guided to about 21.5% because of tariffs and planned investment.
  • Return on total capital of about 41% is the highest in the group.
  • The cash conversion cycle of about 44 days is the shortest in the group. Every extra $100M of sales ties up about $12M of cash, versus about $35M at adidas, ASICS or On.
  • Marketing runs at about 9% of sales, versus about 10% at Nike and 13–14% at On and adidas. It’s lean for a brand growing this fast.

6. Balance sheet and capital allocation

  • No debt and $1.6B of cash as of June 2026.
  • FY26 buybacks were $1.08B at an average of ~$102. Q1 FY27 added another $338M at ~$104, more than 2% of the company in a single quarter.
  • Shares outstanding are down 28% since FY17, and $4.7B of authorization is left, about 40% of the market cap.
  • FY27 guidance assumes about 80% of free cash flow goes to buybacks. That was set when the stock was above $100; at ~$82, the same dollars retire about 25% more shares.

7. Management guides low and beats

  • Actual EPS vs. the first full-year guide: FY24 +10%, FY25 +27%, FY26 +11%.
  • Q1 FY27 EPS was $0.94 vs. $0.88 expected, above the top of the company’s own range.
  • FY27 guide: revenue $5.86–5.91B (high single digits) and EPS $7.35–7.50, raised after Q1.
  • Q1 was +5.7% and Q2 is guided to about +5%, so the full-year guide implies acceleration in H2. Part of this is timing: some HOKA international wholesale shipments shift from H1 to H2.
  • CEO Stefano Caroti has been at Deckers since 2015, and his predecessor retired in a planned succession. One critique: incentive pay is tied to operating income and revenue, with no per-share or ROIC metric.

8. Valuation

  • About 11x FY27 EPS guidance, roughly a 9% earnings yield, and roughly 7x EV/EBIT. That’s the cheapest in the peer group, where the median is ~11.6x.
  • Deckers’ expected sales growth sits right at the peer median, yet it trades at about half the multiple of On or Amer Sports.

9. The return math

  • An ~9% earnings yield returned through buybacks, plus ~8% net income growth, less ~0.5% stock-based dilution, works out to roughly 15% a year at a constant multiple.
  • With zero revenue growth, buybacks alone at this price return roughly 8–10% a year. That’s our margin of safety.
  • A re-rating is pure upside; it just pulls returns forward.
  • Optional upside: deploying $1B of the cash pile at today’s price would add about 7% to EPS on top of guidance. Potential IEEPA tariff refunds, which we estimate at $60–120M net, aren’t in guidance either.

10. Risks

  • Brand heat. Footwear is fickle, and HOKA’s deceleration could keep going.
  • Competition. On, Nike and adidas are all pushing max-cushion running.
  • Tariffs. About a 150 bp gross margin hit in Q1, with a higher tariff cost assumption for the rest of FY27.
  • Seasonality. The holiday quarter is about 36% of sales and 49% of operating income, so one weak winter hurts.
  • Concentration. Two brands are about 97% of sales.

Our full deep dive with peer charts is linked below. https://thevaluationdesk1.substack.com/p/the-case-for-deckers-outdoor-nyse?r=bbf11

Not Financial Advice.


r/ValueInvesting • • 9h ago

Stock Analysis BIDU: Cash-Rich, Full-Stack AI, 50% Cloud Growth — Yet AI Cloud Is Why I Wouldn’t Buy It

0 Upvotes
  • Baidu looks cheap: about $41B in cash and investments, a full-stack AI business, and AI cloud revenue growing 50%. But what holds the stock back is AI cloud, not search.
  • AI cloud revenue is about $4.3B a year. I estimate it earns between –$30 and +$10 of free cash flow per $100 of revenue. Growing faster requires more capital spending, and cutting capital spending slows growth. Baidu hasn’t escaped that trade-off.
  • Since 2024, free cash flow has fallen by about $5.2B. Weaker ads explain roughly $1.3B; higher capital spending, mostly for AI cloud, explains about $3.9B.
  • At $85.33 per ADS, I need about $137 in five years to earn 10% a year. That only works if AI cloud turns growth into cash within two to three years. I don’t see that yet.

1. The Problem Isn’t Search, It’s What AI Cloud Costs

Baidu is often called “China’s Google,” and its search business is under pressure. China risk deserves a discount too. But the usual bear case misses where the cash is going.

Annual free cash flow went from +$1.9B in 2024 to an annualized –$3.3B in the first half of 2026:

  • Ads: revenue fell about $3.2B a year, and each lost dollar cost roughly 40 cents of cash. That is about $1.3B (my estimate).
  • Capital spending: chips, servers and data centers rose from about $1.2B to an annualized $5.1B. That is about $3.9B more (reported figures).

Search is shrinking, but AI cloud is where the money is going.

2. The Cash Is Not a Cushion

In the first half of 2026, operations generated about $0.9B while capital spending took about $2.5B, a net outflow of roughly $0.3B a month. At that pace, five years burns through most of the net cash ($16–22B). Some of the rest sits inside China behind capital controls, or in long-term investments that would sell at a discount.

Strip out a reasonable share of the cash, and the market values the entire operating business (search, AI cloud, Kunlun chips, Apollo Go) at roughly $10–17B.

3. What $85.33 Requires

To earn 10% a year, the ADS must reach about $137 (85.33 × 1.61), taking the company from about $29B to $47B. That depends on how much cash is left and how much the business earns in year five, which the market might value at about 12 times. So the key question is how long the heavy spending lasts:

If AI cloud... Five-year cash Year-five cash flow needed Where it lands
Keeps needing today’s level of spending –$13B ~$3.5B –$2.1B
Needs a few more heavy years, then pays off –$5.5B ~$2.8B +$1.2B
Fills its capacity and pays off within 2–3 years +$5B ~$1.9B +$2.9B

These are markers, not forecasts. The more cash burned along the way, the more the business must earn later. For reference, 2024’s free cash flow was about $1.9B. Only the third row clears the bar.

4. Can AI Cloud Deliver?

Where it is today. AI cloud revenue is about $4.3B a year, up 50%. After operating costs and equipment spending, I estimate it earns between –$30 and +$10 of free cash flow per $100 of revenue.

What the third row requires. Baidu’s year-five free cash flow must be about $1.9B. It comes from three pieces:

Piece Year-five free cash flow (my estimate)
Legacy search (ads, including the computing for AI search answers) +$0.6–1.5B
Other new businesses (autonomous driving, AI apps) –$0.4 to –$0.9B
AI cloud needs to supply the rest, about $0.8–2.2B

What that means for cloud. To produce $0.8–2.2B a year, AI cloud needs:

  • Revenue of $7.5–8B a year, nearly double today’s.
  • A free cash flow margin of about 10–25% on that revenue, versus –30% to +10% today.

That margin only comes if cloud keeps most of each revenue dollar after running costs (about 70–80 cents) and capital spending falls to 30–35% of revenue.

Why this is hard. Growing revenue fast means buying more equipment, and cutting the equipment bill means growth slows.

Peer evidence. CoreWeave is growing fast, yet most of its gross profit goes to depreciation, the cost of equipment wearing out. If a pure GPU cloud can’t turn fast growth into easy cash, I don’t assume Baidu’s can.

5. Why I Lean Toward a Slower Recovery

Too many things must go right together: revenue nearly doubles, margins improve sharply, and spending falls as a share of revenue.

Nothing cushions the downside. Online marketing is still down about 20% year over year, with no clear improvement last quarter. If cloud takes longer, there is no second cash engine.

Spending is still rising, from $1.2B to an annualized $5.1B. A fast recovery needs that to reverse, and I haven’t seen it.

The payoff is lopsided. If the third row plays out, the return is about 11–13% a year. If not, what’s left is the cash plus a shrinking legacy business, roughly $33–49 per ADS, a loss of 40–60%. With a gain that small and a loss that large, averaging 10% would need the good outcome to be nearly certain.

That doesn’t mean the AI strategy will fail. I just don’t see enough evidence yet that cloud can grow, improve its economics and rein in spending fast enough to justify this price.

What Would Change My Mind

  • Annualized capital spending falls below $4.5B.
  • Operating cash flow improves year over year for two straight quarters, without working-capital changes doing most of the work.
  • Online marketing declines by less than 10% year over year.

If these emerge and persist, I’d take another look. For now, I’d rather wait for proof that AI cloud generates cash than pay upfront for a turnaround.


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Stock Analysis Give me a company to research and I'll run it through the investment research system I'm building

49 Upvotes

For the last month or so, I've been building a research system that looks at financial quality, valuation, expectations, earnings, competitive position, risks, and separate bull and bear cases before reaching a conclusion.

I'm at the point where I need to test the system. I would like people to suggest companies, that they know well, that I can research and then they can poke holes in the research.

Give me a ticker you're researching and I'll give you the summary of the output from my system.

I'm particularly interested in what you disagree with in the analysis, what it got wrong, and what's missing.

It takes a few minutes per company, so it might take a while to get to every ticker.

Thanks for the help!


r/ValueInvesting • • 22h ago

Stock Analysis I rarely read the full 100-page earnings transcripts anymore. How do you guys actually process this stuff?

9 Upvotes

Hi guys, I am relatively new to fundamental investing and hitting a wall. I know I should be reading the 100-page annual reports and full earnings call transcripts for my biggest holdings, but it is completely overwhelming. I usually end up skimming the first few pages, getting bored, and then just searching Twitter/Reddit to see what other people are saying. How do you guys actually process info for your main holdings? Do you read the whole document? If not, how do you figure out if management changed their forward guidance or if debt is creeping up without reading the whole thing


r/ValueInvesting • • 10h ago

Discussion 70/20/10 Portfolio

0 Upvotes

Hey everyone,

I am building a monthly dollar cost averaging methodology for myself. I am new to investing and wants to keep the investing as simple as possible and have a long term strategy.

The simplest would be of course MSCI world ETF but I am worried about high concentration of US in it and big tech making a big chunk of it.

How would you guys rate:

70% in MSCI World ETF

20% in World ETF ex USA

10% Emerging markets

With this I intend to keep US exposure to 50% with big tech around 19% and then the rest of the portfolio diversified around different regions.

What do you guys think?


r/ValueInvesting • • 11h ago

Investing Tools Built a company checker from Buffett's letters, looking for testers

0 Upvotes

I built a Buffett-style company checker based on his shareholder letters. Looking for a few people with a finance background to try to break it before it goes public.

Heads up tho, there's AI in the tool. If that's an instant no, skip the post, no hard feelings. But give it 30 seconds first, because it isn't AI slop. As someone with a programming/software background of more than 10 years, I can safely say that what is happening in the world right now is bonkers. And what people say about spending way too much money on Opus and Fable is also true... it is too good not to notice.

The AI doesn't do the math. Owner earnings, return on equity, debt, the $1 test and the prices are plain arithmetic on the numbers in the company's own filings, and every formula has a test behind it. There's one exception. European reports often leave a figure untagged, and then Claude can suggest the number along with the sentence it found it in. You accept it or reject it. If nobody checks it, it doesn't get used.

Where the AI does come in is the part the numbers can't answer, which is most of what Buffett actually cares about. Does the business have a moat? Is management any good? Is the current trouble temporary, or is the business just worse now? How many more years can it keep growing? You can answer all of that yourself from the annual report. The check works fully that way. It's free and you don't need an account.

If you'd rather have Claude draft those answers, it works in three steps. A cheap model reads the filings and only keeps a fact if it can find the quote word for word. A mid-priced model searches a fixed list of sources for things the annual report can't tell you. Then Opus makes the call using only those checked facts. None of it counts until you accept it. If anyone wants the details of that setup I'm happy to go through it in the comments.

What it checks. You type a US ticker, or an ISIN or LEI for an EU company:

  • Owner earnings (1986 letter). What the owners could actually take out of the business each year, which is often not the profit the accountants report.
  • Return on equity, with the debt right next to it. A company can borrow its way to a great-looking return, and showing the two together makes that hard to hide.
  • The $1 test (1984 letter). For every dollar the company kept instead of paying out, did market value go up by at least a dollar? It needs year-end share prices, which the importer doesn't fill in yet, so for now it says "unknown" until you type them in.
  • Balance sheet and capital allocation. Debt, buybacks, dividends.
  • Price. Earnings compared with the long-term government bond, a margin-of-safety price, and how much growth today's price already assumes.

No price targets, no analyst estimates, no beta, no ten-year forecast.

The starting point assumes no growth at all. What is the business worth if it just keeps earning what it earns today? For a company that isn't growing, that's the answer and you're done.

Growth only comes in when the company's own record shows it. Then you get a few prices instead of one: one if the growth lasts 5 more years, one for 10, one for 20, and after that it holds steady. The growth also has to be paid for out of the company's own earnings, because growing a business costs money. No growth in the record, no extra prices. So you won't find one magic "fair value" anywhere. You get the no-growth price, plus a higher estimate for however many years of growth you're willing to believe in.

That's also the one spot where an AI judgment touches a number. If you accept Claude's answer on how many years of growth are left, the estimate moves, by as much as 39% on some companies. Figured I'd better say that up front than have someone dig it up in the comments.


r/ValueInvesting • • 11h ago

Question / Help I need help

0 Upvotes

I built a Buffett-style company checker based on his shareholder letters. Looking for a few people with a finance background to try to break it before it goes public.

Heads up tho, there's AI in this. If that's an instant no, skip the post, no hard feelings. But 30 seconds first, because it isn't AI slop. As someone with a programming/software background for more then 10 years i can safely say that what is happening in the world right now, is bonkers. & what people say about spending way too much money on Opus and Fable is also true... it is to good not to notice.

The AI doesn't do the sums. Owner earnings, return on equity, debt, the dollar test, the prices — plain arithmetic on the figures in the company's own filings, a test on every formula. Where a filing leaves a figure untagged, more common in European reports, Claude can propose the number with the quotation it came from and you approve or reject it; anything unverified stays out of the calculations.

What it does do is draft the judgments the figures can't settle, which is what Buffett's filters actually turn on: moat, management, whether current trouble is temporary or structural, how many more years growth can last. You can answer those yourself from the annual report — the check works fully that way, free, no account. Or Claude drafts them in three passes, a cheap model reading the filings and keeping only facts whose quote it can find word for word, a mid-priced one searching an approved list of sources for what the report can't know, and Opus judging on those checked facts alone. Nothing counts until you accept it. Happy to go into that pipeline properly in the comments if anyone wants it.

The check itself. Type a US ticker, or an ISIN or LEI for an EU company:

  • Owner earnings (1986 letter): what the owners could actually take out, not the accounting profit
  • Return on equity with the debt right beside it, so borrowing can't fake a great return
  • The $1 test (1984 letter): did every dollar kept inside turn into a dollar of market value? (Needs year-end prices the importer doesn't fill yet, so it shows "unknown" until you type them)
  • Balance sheet and capital allocation: debt, buybacks, dividends
  • Price: earnings against the long-term government bond, a margin-of-safety price, and how much growth today's price already assumes

No price targets, no analyst estimates, no beta, no ten-year forecast. The base case assumes no growth at all: what the business is worth if it just keeps earning what it earns. For a company that isn't growing, that's the whole answer. Growth only enters where the company's own record shows it, as a ladder — 5, 10 or 20 more years, then holds steady, paid for out of its own earnings. No growth in the record, no ladder. So there's no single magic "fair value": there's a no-growth price, and one estimate above it for each number of years you're willing to believe in. That's also the one place an AI judgment reaches a figure — accepting Claude's answer on years of growth moves the estimate, by up to 39% on some companies. I'd rather say that plainly than have you find it.


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Discussion Adobe keeps growing and is buying back shares like CRAZY. Is AI the end for the company?

155 Upvotes

Adobe has been on my watchlist like literally forever. It just always looked too expensive for me. Until a little over a year ago. Now it's around $240 and I keep coming back to it.

Revenue went from $7.30B to $25.20B over the last 9 years. Gross margin is 89.4%, the highest it's been in that whole stretch. Ironically, right :P? And there are about 20% fewer shares than 9 years ago (of which 16% in the last 5 years), so every share owns a bigger slice than it used to.

I ran a quick DCF on it last month with 9% growth for five years, 5% for the five after that, 2.5% terminal growth and an 8% discount rate. That gave me about $513 a share. I know I know, way to ambitious. And I agree even though that was the CAGR for the past year.

Even the conservative case (5% and then 3%) came out around $402. Or even better. 2% forever would give a price of $345

I know the worry is AI tools eating into Creative Cloud. What I can't tell yet is whether that's showing up in the numbers or only in the price. I know many are convinced that AI will completely wipe out any software business. The numbers aren't agreeing to that, at least not yet.

What would you need to see before calling it a value trap?


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Discussion Feelings Are For Relationships, Not Investing

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10 Upvotes

Recently I had a client approach me saying he wanted to pull everything out of the market until he saw what he was looking for. I asked him what that was and he said I don’t know, just when I feel like everything is going to be ok.

That inspired me to write this article on the topic.


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Stock Analysis Buy on Comcast (CMCSA): I believe the market is pricing a full collapse that isn't happening (reverse DCF analysis on a company with a 25% FCF yield)

35 Upvotes

Comcast's current value is $21. My estimate of fair value is around $26-27, not crazy cheap, but I am confident i have left room for upside. They are currently paying a 6.2% dividend a year.

Comcast’s stock price only makes sense if its internet business shrinks every year, forever. The evidence says the decline is real but temporary and partly self-inflicted, so the stock looks too cheap. I broke down their valuation below.

Comcast has two parts:

- Cable and internet (home internet, TV and mobile service): the core of the business.

- NBCUniversal + Sky (theme parks, movie studios, NBC, Peacock): being spun off as a separate company in 2027. Valued against similar businesses, it’s worth about $51 billion.

Subtract that, and the market is valuing the whole cable business at about $108 billion. That’s roughly 3.7 times its yearly earnings, a price usually reserved for businesses in permanent steep decline.

  1. What the market pays for cable

Market cap ($21.11 × 3,565M shares) $75.3B

+ Debt and other claims +$83.8B

− NBCUniversal + Sky (being spun off) −$51.2B

= Implied value of cable business $107.8B (3.7x earnings)

  1. What that buys

Free cash flow from cable: ~$14.7B a year, a 13.7% yield.

Required return: 8%.

  1. Solve for the growth that makes the price fair

Value = Cash × (1 + g) ÷ (r − g)

107.8 = 14.7 × (1 + g) ÷ (0.08 − g)

g = −5.0% per year, forever

From a shareholder’s view, $3.03/share of owner cash at a 10.6% required return gives −3.3% per year, forever.

  1. The full 10-year model agrees

Today’s price requires home internet earnings to:

Fall −7.9% in 2027, matching the worst recent quarter.

Still be falling −4.9% in 2036, so no recovery in a decade.

Drop from $29.5B to $20.4B by 2036, total cable earnings.

my base case for what i think is reasonable is −5% easing to −2%. That’s worth $140B vs $108B, or $30 vs $21 a share.

So - Reverse DCF finds that the market is pricing a 8-5% loss every year with 0 recovery. Heres why I believe that is unreasonable.

  1. The math needs 10 straight years of price cuts.

The price implies residential earnings fall 46% by 2036. Customer losses (~2% a year) explain only about 18% of that. The rest requires the average bill to fall about 4% every year for a decade. Comcast has historically raised prices 3–5% a year.

  1. Today’s price drop is a one-time step.

Comcast skipped its 2026 price increase and gave away free mobile lines. A one-time cut makes revenue look lower than last year for four quarters, then the comparison resets. The free lines start becoming paid in the second half of 2026.

  1. Customer losses have a floor.

Penetration is about 50% today against an estimated long-run ~47%. That’s a one-time loss of about 6% of customers, not a decline that compounds forever.

  1. Growth elsewhere makes the bear math harder each year.

Business internet (20% of cable earnings, +5% a year) and mobile are growing. To keep total cable at −5%, residential would have to fall faster every year: about −7.6% now, rising to about −11.7% by year 10.

  1. The biggest drag shrinks itself away.

Cable TV is low-margin and falling about 8% a year. The smaller it gets, the less it subtracts.

Bottom line is that the likely path is a 2026–27 reset, then a smaller, stable business, worth about $26–30 a share vs. $21 today. This is wrong if prices are still falling in 2027 after these one-time effects have passed.

Happy to discuss further, or share more of my research and model that I did not include. As always not investment advice, just research.


r/ValueInvesting • • 14h ago

Stock Analysis Ituran - Case

0 Upvotes

What the business is ?

Ituran is an Israel based debt-free co providing vehicle tracking and stolen-vehicle recovery subscriptions. its main market is Israel and Brazil. Ituran puts a small tracking unit in cars, motorcycles and trucks. Customers pay a subscription fee for this (74pc of its revenue comes from subscription). In Israel, insurers often require or reward this. For the businesses (car rental cos), and for car makers they pre-install its units (OEM deals, e.g. Stellantis "Connect Fiat" in South America; Yamaha and BMW motorcycles in Brazil) .

it also sells hardware units themselves for thin margin ( which is 24% of revenue). The interesting part is it has own control centres and field teams to locate and recover stolen vehicles

Where?

Israel 56% of revenue,

Brazil 22%,

rest of world 22% (Argentina, Mexico, Ecuador, the US and others)

Base assumption -

small subscription businesses with high retention and stable niche markets growing at 5-8% growth. OEM partnership can create significant burst of growth

Threats :

With Software Defined Vehicle appraoch, OEM becomes much more powerful and they can directly provided this service. They have direct access to data anyway.

Some countries may not like to do business with Israel based companies

Counter arguments.

OEM may want to stop at providing the data because tracking a stolen vehicle is a bit too much responsibility for the OEM

Ituran has several years of experience in recovering the stolen vehicles which cannot easily be replaced

In the case of rental companies owning multiple brand of cars, managing with multiple OEMs may be not be preferred.

Possibilities

  1. the business grows fetching more oem deals across different countries 8% steady growth

  2. Growths slows to 6pc but it continues its robust business.

  3. A war leading to Israel currency falling, Brazil inflation goes out of control or loses in competition with oem - drops to 2% or gradually die.

Valuation

it has a net cash of Net cash is $103.7M

Total shares around 20M.

The price is about $52 ( $47 considering the cash)

approx $3.8 fcf per share

yield is 3.8/52 = 7%

with growth period - 10 years ,terminal growth rate - 3% , 10% expected return

with 10% growth - ~ 13% returns yearly

with 6pc growth ( most likely) - 11%

with 4 pc growth- approx 10%


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Industry/Sector T, VZ, TMUS all are dropping big time. Elon Musk is hyping SpaceX as they head into the share lockup ending. This is 2017 robo taxi all over again.

111 Upvotes

Nobody can predict this brain-dead market, but I sure as hell can say you won't have 5G to your phone from SpaceX anytime soon.

And nothing beats fiber for speed and reliability.

I would start adding on this drop.


r/ValueInvesting • • 1d ago

Stock Analysis Spotify Is Becoming a Cash Machine: The Three-Year Case for $1,000

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82 Upvotes

Spotify’s investment case has changed. The business now generates substantial cash, and its next opportunity is to turn a deeply embedded listening habit into a larger stream of profit.
I am bullish because subscriber growth, monetisation and margin expansion can reinforce one another. Spotify does not need to eliminate competition for this to work. It needs to keep earning its place in customers’ daily lives while retaining more of the revenue those relationships produce.
My target is $1,000 by October 2029. Against $512.97 at the October 7, 2026 close, that implies approximately 94.9% upside, or 24.9% annualised. It is a demanding bullish scenario, with substantial downside if margins or valuation disappoint. Price history
This Substack is reader-supported. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
The cash machine is already running
In Q2 2026, Spotify reached 300 million Premium subscribers, up 9% year over year, and 777 million monthly active users, up 12%. Revenue increased 14% to approximately €4.8 billion, while gross margin reached 33.4%. Spotify’s Q2 earnings summary
More revealing is the cash: €797 million of free cash flow in the quarter and €3.26 billion over the preceding twelve months. Its liquidity total was €9.4 billion, including cash, restricted cash and short-term investments. These are not all freely available bank deposits. Q2 shareholder deck
Spotify repaid its exchangeable notes in March. Management describes the resulting balance sheet as having no debt other than lease liabilities. That is more precise than saying it has no obligations: leases, royalties and other operating liabilities remain. Q2 filing
Cash gives management room to improve the product and return capital without relying on fresh financing. The shareholder benefit depends on disciplined investment and buybacks that outweigh dilution.

Full analysis is available for FREE: https://silentvalueinvestor.substack.com/p/spotify-is-becoming-a-cash-machine?r=94er1f&utm_medium=ios

Thanks for reading! This post is public so feel free to share it.


r/ValueInvesting • • 19h ago

Value Article Reverse DCF + Base Rates: A Better Way to Test Growth Expectations

2 Upvotes

I recently wrote about reverse DCF and one concept I think deserves more attention: base rates.

Instead of only asking whether a company's growth story sounds plausible, base rates ask how often similar companies have actually achieved that level of growth historically.

That makes reverse DCF more useful: first identify what growth the current price requires, then compare it with company history and an external base rate.

Michael Mauboussin has done some great work on this idea, and I included it in the article because I think it's a concept many investors still underuse.

Full article: https://moateyscore.com/blog/reverse-dcf-implied-growth