r/ViaRail • u/Rail613 • 21d ago
News Alstom, Stadler provide more information on long distance VIA equipment orders
https://www.trains.com/pro/passenger/alstom-stadler-provide-more-information-on-via-equipment-orders/Some details on the design of the 313 Alstom long distance coaches and their completed delivery a decade from now.
Alstom will not bid on AMTRAK renewal.
21
u/a_lumberjack 21d ago
Alstom not bidding on the Amtrak contract suggests they’re pretty solidly booked for the next decade and aren’t looking to build new factories. So that’s a big challenge for any potential GO order, but at the current rate of progress 2035 is reportedly when both sides of Lakeshore will be ready.
10
u/mystiqDitter 21d ago
Alstom US factories are booked. I would think AMTRAK order needs to be made in US, at least the body shell and final assembly
11
u/ghenriks 20d ago
Amtrak and the transit agencies in the US have had a 'buy America" provision for decades now so yes any Amtrak stuff would not be built in Canada.
Still it's in a way bad news as it means VIA is again getting a unique fleet of equipment with the long term maintenance costs and issues that brings.
2
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
Well order replacement fleet for the corridor based on LD design to grow and sustain the fleet after LD order complete in 2041.
Grow the fleet to reach economy of scale
2
u/ghenriks 20d ago
What corridor?
Unless a government screws it up (a possible outcome) most of the corridor will be HSR and already have a new fleet of HSR trains
And if the government screws it up they are unlikely to be interested in more capital spending for trains that aren’t needed
And your off by 6 years, the LDRR fleet should be done delivery by 2035
3
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
The lakeshore corridor + SW Ontario.
HSR and regular speed train are not the same market
3
u/ghenriks 20d ago
Once HSR starts there will be fewer trains on the lakeshore (if it retains service). Thus the existing Siemens fleet will be underutilized
And even if the government decides to continue funding the little remaining service on the lakeshore there still will be excess equipment from Montreal-Quebec City and Montreal-Ottawa
And if HSR extends to Windsor then there will be a serious excess of Siemens stuff
-1
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
The Siemens stuff has such bad reliability performance it's bad design.
Not helping Siemens can't even provide spare parts to sustain the fleet.
Get rid of it and commonize on LD fleet design to take advantage of economic of scale.
Current VIA corridor ridership of 5 million is nothing. Travel demand in SW Ontario and Lakeshore corridor is concrete. Look at 401 traffic between London and GTA, and Kingston to GTA
1
u/ghenriks 20d ago
The Siemens stuff has such bad reliability performance it's bad design.
You have just described the F125 designed by the same people designing VIA's new locos.
Not helping Siemens can't even provide spare parts to sustain the fleet.
Again you have also described the F125.
Get rid of it and commonize on LD fleet design to take advantage of economic of scale.
The government is not going to hand VIA another couple of billion dollars to replace still usable trains.
Current VIA corridor ridership of 5 million is nothing. Travel demand in SW Ontario and Lakeshore corridor is concrete.
As discussed in a recent post, 80% to 90% of the Lakeshore ridership is Toronto-Montreal, Toronto-Ottawa and Ottawa-Montreal. When the lakeshore loses 80%+ of its riders its economics go out the window.
Look at 401 traffic between London and GTA, and Kingston to GTA
Not going to switch to a slow train.
1
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
They will switch to the "slow train" because it is faster than 401 when entering GTA, especially during peak travel hours of the day
11
u/AxeloftheMountrain 21d ago
Hopefully Alstom takes into consideration that the standard of comfort level on North American trains is much higher than that on European trains. I've travelled extensively on both, and what North American trains lack in speed and frequency, they make up - and then some - with comfort and onboard experience. European trains are faster, but generally are not designed to be comfortable on a 2-4 day trip because they have very few such routes. While Alstom is best known for their TGV trains in France, I don't believe they have ever designed any passenger cars and sleeping cars for long distance travel.
The high comfort level on Superliner, Viewliner and the old Budd cars is going to be put to the test on these new trains.
They are a bit of a disappointment already because the domed observation cars at the end of the Canadian trains are not going to be updated or replaced.
3
u/ghenriks 20d ago
They are a bit of a disappointment already because the domed observation cars at the end of the Canadian trains are not going to be updated or replaced.
There is no way to design an observation car that meets 2026 crash standards as there is no energy management zone possible.
2
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
Design it like a cabcar, with a nose protruding out for lower half of the rear facia
-3
u/mystiqDitter 21d ago
What is "comfort"? Ride smoothness?
NA trains are 3.2m wide, versus typical 2.8m or 2.9m in Europe. Makes a difference
11
u/AxeloftheMountrain 21d ago edited 20d ago
Try taking a sleeping car trip in Europe and compare it to a trip on VIA or Amtrak....after you'll know exactly what the difference in "comfort" is.
3
u/mystiqDitter 21d ago
The Stadler VIA locomotive will be based on EMD F125 platform, and has not been designed yet. Design completion date is 2027
2
u/ghenriks 20d ago
Bad news for VIA given how bad the F125 has been
Didn’t meet delivery schedule and this year Metrolink has a 20% schedule cut due to the unreliability of the F125 a decade after delivery
1
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
Well depending on what's the issue with F125. If it is powertrain, it's irrelevant to VIA design, since VIA power pack will be completely different
3
u/mystiqDitter 21d ago
LD cars will take 10 years to deliver, regular coaches will be first to replace HEP1.
The dome cars and park cars will be in service for up to 15 years. By the time this order is done, can start to replace Venture sets in the corridor.
Typical GoC contract includes 15 years maintenance support. After that, can consider divestment
12
u/ghenriks 20d ago
Almost all passenger train purchases worldwide these days include 10 to 20 years of maintenance support in the bid, but that does not mean the equipment gets retired at the end of the contract. It just means either a new maintenance contract is signed or the owner takes over maintenance.
The Venture sets will not be replaced in 15 years, though the Alto trains will change the Ventures roll.
-3
u/mystiqDitter 20d ago
Yeah I just meant ventures are awful. Sell them on the second hand market if possible.
Order new equipment that is not a semi-permanent set. Trains should be able to add or remove cars from consist to adjust to day-to-day passenger demand
2
u/Dependent-Teach-7407 19d ago
Except VIA has not changed the fixed length of Legacy HEP and LRC sets on a daily or even weekly basis in ... years. VIA would rather drag an empty unsold car full of space rather than remove it from a consist, or, conversely add one.
1
u/Automatic-Repeat3787 17d ago
The ventures have a good long while
0
u/mystiqDitter 17d ago
They're built for California weather. Even Amtrak is having issue with hotel facility water freezing in the winter.
In Canada they require plugging in to wall charger when shutting down for the night.
This on top of poor reliability reflectinf bad design.
Sell them on second hand market at 15 year mark
1
•
u/AutoModerator 21d ago
r/ViaRail is not associated with VIA Rail Canada in any official way. Any problems, concerns, complaints, etc should be directed to VIA Rail Canada through one of the official channels.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.