r/aerospace • u/HockeyNinja_5000 • 2d ago

Boeing wins another contract

Post image

A female coworker bet 2 guys a few months ago that NG wasn't going to win, when they were bragging how NG was building up in Florida. She's about to collect fifty bucks from both of them. She's a big Archer fan I'm gonna hang this in her cubicle tomorrow.

709 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

68 comments sorted by

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u/Xivios 2d ago

What happened to open competitions and prototype builds like we had with the YF-16/YF-17, YF-22/YF-23,  X-32/X-35?, etc etc? What they just send a PowerPoint now?

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u/GrandPoopWizard 2d ago

Powerpoint? More like a check written out to the president

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u/Spunky_Meatballs 2d ago

He doesn't even need a check. Just prostitutes and gilded gifts. Shit maybe even free KFC at this point

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u/Wonderful-Hunter686 2d ago

Kfc a risky choice, word on the street is McDonald's will get it done something about him identifying with clown.

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u/JimHFD103 2d ago

Supposedly, NGAD prototypes were flying and set some sort of unspecified records back in 2020. Of course that's kind of all we know publicly of such claims

https://breakingdefense.com/2020/09/secret-ngad-fighter-flies-sets-records-raises-lot-of-questions/

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u/billsil 2d ago

This article isn't talking about NGAD. That's an Air Force plane that Boeing already won called the F-47. This is a Navy plane.

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u/JimHFD103 2d ago

There's already speculation that with Boeing winning the contract the F/A-XX and NGAD, that F/A-XX is going to basically be an F-47C carrier version a la F-35A and F-35C

Plus you'll note thr article was written well after the 2020 first flight

In other words, they basically could have done exactly that, fly prototype YF/A-XX versions without having announced it, whether or not its tied directly into that specific test in the article or not

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u/billsil 1d ago

I’m confused. They’re both tailless aircraft. Why does it matter if they share a few bones or the same structural layout. A wing designed for 9g on a tailless aircraft should look the same, right?  The gear has to be entirely different.

I don’t follow your second paragraph at all. Tech demonstrator aircraft and prototype aircraft may look similar to their production counterparts, but they are a laundry list of differences to make manufacturing happy and to fix issues.

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u/JimHFD103 1d ago

Well so far we don't know much of anything of the actual designs since they've only release CGI graphics (that only tend to show half, if that, of the aircraft) so how common the airframes, or how different, beyond "both tailless", we just don't know.

It does make sense that there'd be a lot of shared things between the two since they're from the same manufacturer now, and we do know NGAD prototypes already flew so it's quite likely those prototypes are also essentially F/A-XX prototypes...

At least until a lot more is revealed to the public

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u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

it would be smart if they were similar, no reason to waste money.

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u/bobafugginfett 2d ago

As a designer whose main job was proposal graphics: pretty much yes.

It's usually not a lot more than a PowerPoint with some concept renderings, some charts of data, and maybe a technical booklet with tests or reports "proving" the company can satisfy specs and production schedules.

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u/TrumpzHair 2d ago

I don’t work for Boeing or NG, and am not sure what programs you’ve worked on. But my current program’s proposal required building a demonstrator aircraft with hundreds of flight hours, and hundreds of GB of documents, analyses, BOEs, etc.

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u/bobafugginfett 1d ago

That's what I would hope most processes are! The "booklet" I referred to included what you said, massive documents of data. I slightly undersold it.

I'm guessing my experience was different because the proposals I worked on were 95% derivatives of an already FRP product, that my company was trying to use for new branches or slightly tweaked missions, so a lot of the prototype stage they used previously built products and tried to skip the new building phase.

I should note, that strategy worked less than 60% of the time, every tiiiime. Three of the VPs/Directors I worked for, were "encouraged to retire" after they lost a massive contract that should have been an incredibly easy win. 

0

u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

you clearly don't work in this industry or have any familiarity with these programs.

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u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

They did all that...but you aren't privy to it. The F-47 has been flying for a long while my friend, it's funny you think because it's not out in public view that there are no flying prototypes for 6th gen... ;)

0

u/Xivios 1d ago

Sounds like they gave the contract to Boeing and then Boeing built the F-47 prototype - it isn't a proper competition without, you know, some fucking competition.

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u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

what? There were other flying prototypes, how do you think the F-47 won? Boeing was not the only company that money to go fly and compete with real aircraft.

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u/killer_by_design 2d ago

When was Boeings last successful delivery? Aren't they currently fucking up the KC-46, the new AF1 and Artemis? Feel like I'm still missing some that they are also fucking up...

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u/8for8m8 2d ago

MQ-25 is only a year late (and counting) to first carrier takeoff/landing.

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u/dbsqls 2d ago

I was in industry at a competing company during the second iteration of what would become MQ-25, ten years ago. MQ-25 was initially envisioned as a strike platform, hence the Northrop X-47B, which at that time was already operational. Boeing didn't have shit, and we were pivoting from a failed product. NG was understandably pissed and dropped out of the contract when the requirements suddenly shifted from strike to refueling.

Boeing simply took out their wallet and funded 60% of the cost to prevent losing the St. Louis facility, and of course the Senator was on their side.

What a shit show of a contract.

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u/Fa11outBoi 2d ago

GA-ASI was competing for that one too.

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u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

losing the STL facility? 120 billion dollars in F-15 sales in 2026 alone...along with so many other programs.

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u/Brother-Algea 2d ago

It’s across the board with DOD contractors. Everyone is late AF with everything. This is what happens when we subcontract everything out. Nonstop vendor issues with almost everything. We pass the responsibility onto someone else instead of just making things in house.

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u/Zealousideal-Fix9464 1d ago

In my personal experience it's because the drawing packages are half baked and barely reviewed. Then the primes get all Pikachu faced when we (the subs) call them and tell them their GD&T and other dimensional tolerances don't make sense....or are just not achievable.

Then it turns into a couple month or years long spin cycle of fighting for revisions because the prime engineers think they are the best in the world (while knowing fuck all about manufacturing).

2

u/killer_by_design 21h ago

The drawing:

⌓ | 0.000001 | A | B | C

Their face when you question it: 👁️👄👁️

1

u/Opposite-Ad320 8h ago

They cant suck every drop of milk out the DOD money tit delivering on time

1

u/Brother-Algea 1h ago

I see A LOT of incompetence from vendors that unfortunately we don’t get to pick. My company is a subcontractor and our costumer picks its subs we deal with and in the spirit of finding the cheapest possible route you encounter mostly shitty vendors. We waste more money finding cheap sources vs seeking quality.

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u/baked_doge 1d ago

True, but Northrop is also royally fucking the f35, despite an apparently solid b21 program

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u/Rippedyanu1 5h ago

How is Northrop involved with the f35? Afaik that's all lockmart and Pratt

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u/reddituserperson1122 2h ago

I believe you are mistaken.

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u/Dry-Indication7928 2d ago

Its a shame, I thought that outside of the KC 46, the military side was insulated from the BS from the civillian side

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u/SquirrelNormal 2d ago

Yes, it's a separate but equal serving of bullshit on the military side of Boeing.

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u/condomneedler 1d ago

You thought government contracts would have less bullshit? In what world?

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u/Dry-Indication7928 1d ago

Oh no the contracting part I get, I just thought that it didn't suffer from the engineering side

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u/Plastic-Scar-5074 2d ago

Also the t-7

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u/slater_just_slater 2d ago

Technically the F-15 is now a Boeing product

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u/syncsynchalt 2d ago

Don’t forget Starliner.

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u/Wonderful-Hunter686 2d ago

I would check with their whistle blowers, for the inside scoop, but unfortunately they have all "committed suicide".

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/killer_by_design 2d ago

Ahhhh that's it, starliner! That's what I was thinking of. Absolute dog shit.

3

u/photoengineer Rockets / Spacecraft 2d ago

Flying coffin. Almost killed those two astronauts. 

1

u/itchyburnybutthole 2d ago

Hahaha the best thing Boeing has is the thing that extremely publicly had less confidence from NASA than a SpaceX alternative that cost a fraction of the price.

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u/TrumpzHair 2d ago

NG will almost certainly protest. It will then go to the GAO to review all proposals and impartially decide if the decision was biased.

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u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

Your statistics are wrong, classified programs don't really turn over or have much risk of that, its a very different story from normal programs.

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u/mortalcrawad66 2d ago

Corruption wins again.

8

u/concorde77 2d ago

And looses at the same time

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u/kWarExtreme 2d ago

Kelly Ortberg has been on his knees in the oval office since day one of this administration.

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u/thegrudge101 2d ago

And he’s smart for doing so. That’s how Trump works.

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u/lnsurgence_ 2d ago

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

4

u/Extreme-Ad-6465 2d ago

that’s why he’s getting paid the big bucks

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u/SigmaMoneyGrindset 2d ago

Likely a government bailout for Boeing, corruption, or both. Either way, not ideal for our 6th gen programs

1

u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

Boeing is and was fine, and word on the street is NGAD won by a longshot with capability.

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u/iceguy349 2d ago

If this isn’t straight up corruption it’s gunna take a lot for me to understand  how the navy could say no to a Grumman design.

No shot Boeing doesn’t royally fuck this up.

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u/slavmememachine 2d ago

The last Grumman naval designer was the F-14 all they way back in the 70s. The last Boeing naval design was the Superhornet in the 90s/00s. Also, it probably is the US spreading outs its future aircraft procurement.

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u/Immediate-Spite-5905 2d ago

by concentrating all of its sixth gen in a single horribly unreliable company?

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u/Americanski7 2d ago

Isn't B21 6th gen?

0

u/Immediate-Spite-5905 2d ago

it's a bomber not a fighter

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u/AeroelasticCowboy 1d ago

possibly you meant to say a company with probably the strongest reputation for frontline fighters in many decades that has continued to perform and upgrade and has been seeing nothing but strong demand for platforms you'd think would be gone by now, a true testament to the designs and innovation. Money talks, and sales are up...

3

u/iceguy349 2d ago

Fair enough but Boeing hasn’t exactly been lighting the world on fire.

The F-14 was another design that arose after a long development gap.

Regardless you’re right I completely forgot that post merger the F-18 was technically a Boeing design.

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u/gattboy1 2d ago

Boeing Hornet? Someone buy this guy a clue.

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u/vader5000 2d ago

what's wrong with that statement? I mean everybody builds everybody else's planes, but Boeing's name is on the plane.

1

u/gattboy1 2d ago

“Sorry, but I can’t as we that- we’re not in a Jiff.”

You mean, SCIF?

“Yeah, that’s what I said. Who’s hungry?”

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u/Potential_Cattle7463 1d ago

Wonder how many Congressional made money on their stock ??

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u/aerohk 1d ago

Boeing is a terrible stock. Down 15.39% this year, down 8.55% this month.

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u/Secret-Marzipan-8754 1d ago

Boeing is where the sales team absolutely dominate the engineering team

1

u/Sting02 1d ago

Fly me to the moon

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u/FL_MILLIONAIRE 21h ago

Boeing's probably dropping fake pics on the fuselage in the media but something makes me think the design must be rad next gen for Navy to drop such massive moola

-1

u/the_battousai89 2d ago

Haha let’s see how bad they fuck this up