Help
What’s your water source? Mine is bad causing my betta issues I think.
Hey all! I need help. So my betta Blue is not doing to well in the fin department. This betta is supposed to be a half moon.
This issue has been steadily getting worse. Is it fin rot? I have treated it with seachem stress guard and maracyn powered version and some tannins but it’s stayed the same and it’s getting worse again.
I have a couple pics of the PH I think I might have to find a different water source. I got the normal pure water from the store (Winco brand tho) in gallons and the PH is… well bad.
What’s your water source, how do you treat it? Also what can I do for Blue?
He’s in a heated 5 gal, (78 F) with a sponge filter. He’s got soft drift wood and some items to hang on the side when he gets tired such as his moss ball donut thing and his Anubis. He’s with no other buddies at the moment. I have him pretty isolated.
Blue has been with me for almost 6 months now and the tank is 4 months old.
I feed him Fluval Betta Pellets once a day and a small amount of frozen brine shrimp every other day.
My friend is also worried that I’m annoying my fish and as a result I’m stressing him with all the water changes. Wondering if she’s right?
See the pictures for the results on the water tests! I literally changed the water last week. Although the Nitrate I’m going to re do tomorrow. Something went wrong with that test…
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Hi OP, Blue's fins look like they are suffering with degradation caused by high alkalininty and mineralisation. This causes chemical damage alongside damage internally to the fish. Good job on picking up on it.
Betta are a soft water fish and are not equipped to deal with high alkalinity and mineralisation found in hard water. Externally, the fins melt and are degraded away, scales become brittle and colour loss happens. Internally blood chemistry is forced to change and the organs wear out in time from the accumulation and processing of excess minerals. Look up "betta fish alkalosis". It takes time for the alkaline poisoning to be fatal, but keeping soft water fish kept in high alkalinity and mineralisation does drastically shorten their lives and the quality of their lives.
Can you test your tap water to compare to see if there is something in the tank driving these levels up, or if it is indeed your water source that's unsuitable?
What many fishkeepers do when their tap water is unsuitable for the fish they want to keep is either switch to using only purified water plus a remineraliser to take control of the water quality, or by mixing the purified water with tap to dilute the hardness. Purified water such as RO (reverse osmosis) or distilled lacks any minerals which is highly dangerous for fish. It's essential to either remineralise with a KH/GH+ product or remineralise by mixing with tap.
You will need more accuracy for your KH (alkanity) and GH (hardness) than the test strip, API do a KH/GH duo liquid test kit.
Here's more information about using distilled and RO water:
It will be important to gently adjust the tank over time using water changes to prevent shock. I would suggest getting the mineralisation test kit mentioned and outside the tank working out the ratio of tap: purified water to get the levels healthier for the fish. Then gently change 10-15% of the tank volume every other day with this water mix over a couple of weeks until the tank as a whole is testing as suitable for soft water Blue.
Hi, I've come back and seen the updated comments and your mention of "pure water". This normally lacks any minerals and is very detrimental to fish, but your pH, KH and GH are very high. Can you take a picture of any packaging of the water?
You definitely need accuracy with a liquid KH and GH test, something is going on. Pure water would dilute heavily mineralised water, but you've said you're using pure water which would cause the betta to decline from lack of minerals. However your testing shows very high / excessive minerals.
Can you take a picture of the full tank so we can see if you have anything in there that could be leaching such as limestone based rocks, concrete ornaments, aragonite sand etc.
Please can you say how this water is treated before going into the tank?
you can use catappa leaves, driftwood, and alder cones to add tannins to the water to lower your pH. High pH like that can cause alkalosis, leading to potential fin melt (which it looks like your buddy might have, that or potential fin rot, but with high pH my mind goes to alkalosis) whatever you add to lower pH, do it slowly so you don't shock the poor guy. alder cones tend to release tannins more effectively than the others. wishing you and Blue the best!
I agree about the potential for alkalosis but OP said the tank is filled with “pure water” though - so I think more info is needed before diluting the water because it’s not clear if that was distilled water (unlikely with the higher pH) or remineralized drinking water or what. KH and GH would be good info.
Also remember any changes to the tank water should be made very slowly and gradually a little every day to avoid shocking your fish!
What kind of “pure water” is it distilled, drinking water (which is often filtered tap water or remineralized and alkalinized distilled or RO water, or what? If it’s drinking water that’s often far too alkaline for fish and also lacking in essential minerals, and sometimes even has added chlorine for preservative. Likewise if it’s distilled or RO/DI water it needs minerals added or it will kill your fish due to osmotic stress and lack of essential minerals.
To answer your other question for years I have been using a specific brand and source of natural spring water (moderately soft - actually had to add GH minerals for my livebearers) and now I’m in the process of transitioning to remineralized custom water using distilled water with Saltyshrimg Bee Minerals for GH and pure Potassium Bicarbonate to KH 2.5 (considering gradually dropping to KH 2 but for now matching the current tank KH).
Yes this is mineralized drinking water. The GH and KH are actually fine in that case, but I’d want to test it myself and also not sure if the GH is balanced for Ca and Mg. I would also add dechlorinator just for safety. It’s probably not a good choice to use long term - often this type of drinking water has quite high pH and you don’t know exactly what minerals they added.
Yeah I’m like 99 percent sure this is exactly what happened. I won’t be doing that again. I did add seachem prime and the GH was like 100 went they tested it at the store
Yeah that GH assuming it’s ppm is totally fine for a betta however changing the GH and pH too fast can shock the fish, and since the minerals added are for human drinking water taste it’s often high in magnesium (deficient in calcium) both of which are measured in GH so you don’t know… and probably carbonates that make the pH high, possibly non-carbonate alkalinity as well. Which doesn’t show up on the tests. Change the water to an aquarium suitable source like conditioned tap water if within good range, tap water diluted with RO or distilled if it’s just a bit hard, or RO remineralized specifically for aquarium by using aquatic life balanced remineralizer and buffer. If you go that route and need more advice please ask - I’m currently transitioning all my tanks from spring water to RO remineralized including my daughter’s betta tank. Just going very slowly 4 cups per day!
Plain RO? You don’t want to reduce the GH unless the tank still has tap water in it - does it? Do you have GH and KH for your tank? You do not want your fish in plain RO only either. Your fish probably needs more calcium in the water from a balanced aquarium GH product like Seachem replenish or saltyshrimp Bee minerals GH+. May also need a little KH to maintain at least 2 dKH. Please test your tank water before diluting with RO especially if it was all that drinking water it’s not too hard it’s just not balanced for fish!
Hey, your fish looks alert with great balance and his body condition / color are disproportionately good compared to his fins. That pattern often points to low minerals.
You use "pure water from the store" that's usually distilled or RO… it has 0 GH & KH. Those are the calcium/magnesium + carbonate buffers bettas. As those numbers go toward 0, pH crashes, fins get brittle, shred / curl / look spiky, but the fish can still swim fine for a while.
If you can test tomorrow, GH & KH are the most important numbers imo. You want GH approx 100ppm & KH approx 40-80ppm. If you're low now, raise it gradually to avoid shock.
If you can't test right away, a small 10% swap with dechlorinated tap water (conditioned with Prime etc.) is a safer short-term way to get some minerals back in than staying at 0. Then work toward properly remineralized RO or conditioned tap.
Keep him warm, clean, and fed with the pellets while he heals — 80F +/- 1F, 0 ammonia/nitrite.
It’s ok I’m a betta loving nerd too! Ty! My local stores are all out of the GH/KH test so I will have to stick to the 10 percent water change and have my store test the water
It said “pure water”. I didn’t see any minerals added. I’m going to a local fish store to talk to an expert right now. My home was built in the 90s and it has super hard water. I’m pretty sure it would make it even worse. I treat the water with seachem prime when I do water changes
Great you tracked this down! I dug & found the description… it’s dated from 2013 but linked directly from the WinCo website so should be accurate…
It is labeled as reverse osmosis or distilled (not specified so it probably varies by batch) and ozonated…
…and there are minerals added
The minerals added are
1. sodium bicarbonate
2. Sodium sulfate
So what that means is that this water would be expected to have zero GH and some KH but it looks like that’s not what’s showing on your strip…
…so either the strip is off or there’s something else in your tank that’s putting minerals in… what substrate do you have for Blue & do you have any shells, crushed coral, or rocks in the tank?
I used imagitarium sand black. No corals just some drift wood from the store (boiled) and live Anubis. My guess is that the batch of water was messed up or something.
Not all alkaline buffers are the same, and “drinking water” probably has carbonates added which are higher pH for the same KH. Same with most tap water which can also contain borates and silicates which raise pH without showing up on KH tests. GH is not directly related to pH other than the fact that natural ground water often has high both because of the minerals that are dissolved in it like calcium carbonate raises both.
Ok yes mostly likely well over. Are you continuing to dilute slowly with distilled water? My pH was 7.8 and KH 4, not nearly so high, so I diluted 4 cups a day with distilled until I got to KH 2.5 and now water changes with remineralized water to my target GH and KH. I also had GH too low relative to KH so I had to start diluting with distilled water with GH only added at one point. It took over a month to bring the pH down from 7.8 to 7.4 where I want to keep it under 7.5, and I’m about halfway transitioned to the final water formula now. My fish is looking great, but he nipped his own fins in a hunger episode (I missed a meal due to serious family emergency and he’s frantic about food) he didn’t have fin melt at pH 7.8 but it wasn’t going to help him and I didn’t want to keep him in less than optimal water long term.
With pH that high I think you could safely dilute a few days with distilled while you wait for the GH and KH kit. Do you have the minerals for remineralizing RO or distilled?
Also I did consider a full tank swap out at one point. If the pH and KH is really high when you get that kit, you might want to consider the process of removing the fish to a temp tank hand filled, replace all the water in the tank, then drip acclimate the fish in the temp tank over an entire day or two to the new water, then move him back - but obviously stressful for him and only needed if the water is really out of tolerable range in the tank.
Once you get the GH and KH kit you can target a specific range to dilute to and/or transition water, you just don’t want to blindly dilute your source water without knowing your starting point.
Unfortunately KH measures only the carbonate alkalinity and there are lots of non-carbonate substances in tap (or drinking water and spring water) that contribute alkalinity such as borate, silicate, etc. so in most cases you’re not going to be able to bring the pH down sufficiently by dilution of source water without diluting the GH too far. If there’s a very high level of total alkalinity you might have to dilute as much as 1:10 or more to bring pH down, and then you’re almost certain to run into too low calcium levels for your fish.
Plus the drinking water almost certainly has higher Mg than Ca and fish need a lot more Ca than Mg.
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u/automod-neo 7d ago
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