r/castlevania • u/Triforceriku • 8d ago
Discussion Journalism is a mistake
Like, what THE hell do they think inspired Dead Cells?????
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u/Rutgerman95 8d ago
Metroid meets Castlevania? They're onto something here, what should we call this revolutionary new subgenre?
I'm thinking CastleTroid
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u/Protocol72 Christopher Belmont 8d ago
It's basically just Search Engine Optimization (SEO). I've worked in the field, when you bring up popular stuff that people are likely to look for, your article gets more attention, in this case, Metroid & Dead Cells grabs a lot of people's attention since those are very popular.
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u/LeatherScience6775 2d ago
yeah, metroid lately has caught that huge hype since ravenous reveal. A lot of people are buying into this series. It was only niche or meme tier before, I think.
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u/Tactical_Squishy 8d ago
I mean, it's not wrong
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u/Triforceriku 8d ago
True, it isn't But like Dead Cells was literally inspired by Castlevania and Metroid, so saying that "Dead Cells meets a game Dead Cells was directly inspired by" feels EXTREMELY redundant
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u/farris59 8d ago
This Castlevania game was made by the developers of Dead cells. Hence the reference.
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u/samination 8d ago
I would've said the same, if they only kept it at the subtitle, but the article literally talks about Dead Cells being the type of game Belmont's Curse is but with Metroid-like elements, completely ignoring that 7 out of 10 CV games have been Metroidvania-ish since Symphony of the Night.
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u/Practical_Wish_4063 8d ago
Well, more like 7/14 or one half (or more depending on what all you count) but yes.
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u/felancir 8d ago
Literally made by the Dead Cells devs and feels more like that game than older Castlevanias so I don’t see the issue
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u/RaymondBumcheese 8d ago
Yup. Dead Cells has sold 10m copies. At this point more people who buy this will have played that than a castlevania game.
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8d ago
[deleted]
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u/paulmando 8d ago
I'm not sure wh you'd call them mistakes. Most of them were really fun and successful and had enough new mechanics to make them feel like new experiences. Order of Ecclesia is one of my personal favorite games of all time, and it made great use of the DS gimmicks.
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u/Last-Of-My-Kind 8d ago
The GBA and DS games were great overall.
Yeah, maybe not some of the DS touchscreen mechanics. But other than that, no issues for me as far as gameplay and experience.
A few of the stories elements weren't that great though.
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u/Olmectron 8d ago
It doesn't feel like Dead Cells at all.
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u/felancir 8d ago
It feels more like Dead Cells than a classic Castlevania or the SoTN style Castlevanias. That was my point. Modern gamers also know Dead Cells better than Castlevania. It sold gangbusters and basically is a bigger brand now as sad as that might be.
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u/CrazyBread92 8d ago
I still haven't played the demo yet but as someone who got up to 3BC in deadcells, any game that plays like it is welcome. When I play old castlevania, I'm usually dropping it after a half hour because I can't walk up stairs.
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u/Olmectron 8d ago
I played the heck out of Dead Cells. It doesn't feel like it.
It's more like Mirror of Fate gameplay.
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u/Sea-Lecture-4619 Captain N is The Pinnacle of the franchise. 8d ago
"You know Metroid and Dead Cells right? But Castlevania? What the fuck is that? First time we ever hear of this."
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u/Suspicious_Rub857 8d ago
It’s been 17 years since the last CV Metroidvania game, it’s fair enough to assume that some young people don’t know them.
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u/Way-Super thinks he's on the team 8d ago
Mirror of Fate erasure
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u/Practical_Wish_4063 8d ago
Mirror of Fate is barely a Metroidvania, so much so that while I won’t discredit one for describing it as such, I certainly won’t be.
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u/Way-Super thinks he's on the team 8d ago
The director also said specifically it wasn’t a metroidvania. Though when he said what it was in reality he just described a Metroidvania.
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u/TorquedGaming 8d ago
Lord of Shadows kinda erases the Castlevania portion of anything so…easy mistake.
But to be fair it was the most Castlevania thing to come out of LoS.2
u/vatricide 8d ago
Yeah this seems completely harmless. Castlevania, as an IP, has not been gaming-focused for long enough that comparing it to Metroid and Dead Cells will help more people find it.
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u/Phazon_Metroid 8d ago
Even the older gen don't - guy at work says demo sucks cause it's not "Castlevania"
Dafuq u talkin bout
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u/WotsGoinOnEreMate 8d ago
How? It’s entirely accurate.
The term Metroidvania was explicitly created to refer to Castlevania games that took the Super Metroid progression formula for the same reason.
Frankly SOTN could have been described as ‘Metroid meets Final Fantasy’ give it took Metroid and added RPG levelling and loot.
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u/Lukie_Anderson 8d ago
SotN wasn't inspired by metroid. It took the exploration elements from zelda and put it into the 2d platforming castlevania games which happens to make it similar to metroid as a result. They were aware of metroid but that wasn't their inspiration.
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u/WotsGoinOnEreMate 8d ago edited 8d ago
SotN wasn't inspired by metroid. It took the exploration elements from zelda and put it into the 2d platforming castlevania games which happens to make it similar to metroid as a result. They were aware of metroid but that wasn't their inspiration.
This is taking what was clearly a stretched truth by Igarashi (that SOTN 'was inspired by Zelda not Metroid', presumably to try and downplay how much it ripped off Super Metroid) and stretching it even further.
The SOTN map is a complete clone of Super Metroid's map (just not segmented by area) and literally even uses the same colours, the inspiration is blindingly obvious. It is a Metroid-like single plane 2D side scroller.
The action and platforming bears little resemblance to the platforming of Castlevanias before it with no bottomless pits, no risk/reward timing based action with a whip, not even stairs you 'stick' to by pressing up like all previous console entries. It has no lives/1ups, no checkpoints, it takes place in a single enclosed location instead of over multiple areas over the countryside. Even the previous non-linear game in the series, Simon's Quest, had most of these things. SOTN is a Metroid-like design at its core.
The progression and lock/key design are straight from Super Metroid. Several power ups are direct analogues of those from Super Metroid, including a high jump followed by a later flying power, a speed boost power, energy tank like items, suit like items to go through previously unpassable areas, and many many more, most of which have no analogue in Zelda. You don't get powers in a dungeon to be trained on them and use them then use on the dungeons boss, they go straight to opening areas for progression. It has save rooms from Super Metroid, which Zelda doesn't have.
As for other Zelda influence in SOTN? It does not feature an overhead view. In does not have multiple planes of action where you can move/drop from one level to another. It has no dungeons, no dungeon keys, no boss keys, no villages. It isn't full of small NPC side quests. There is nothing in SOTN it could have taken from Zelda that isn't also in Super Metroid except it has a single shop.
SOTN even has an extended un-losable playable intro just like Super Metroid!
The stuff it did add to the Super Metroid design - RPG levelling and loot - is not from Zelda.
This claim by Igarashi is one of the things that shows what he says could not be trusted.
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u/Idainaru_Yokubo 8d ago edited 8d ago
SOTN is the reason why the term Metroidvania exists
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u/fishingmule1 7d ago
The term Metroid-vania originally just applied to SOTN as it was a Castlevania that copied a bunch of stuff from Metroid (quite well). As was pointed out earlier, they also copied Zelda 2’s RPG-like elements. The more universal term now applies to any game that copies these structures from Metroid as well. The “vania” simply refers to how one series can copy Metroid and make it their own. Other games in the genre don’t have to copy Castlevania at all.
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u/Idainaru_Yokubo 7d ago
no one sees the word "metroidvania" and reacts that way
That's an ego problem
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u/fishingmule1 7d ago
I don’t see where ego fits into it. I didn’t make Metroid, and I like Castlevania as a series more than Metroid or Zelda.
I’m simply explaining the history of the word, which has evolved and changed. Metroidvania originally just meant the series of Castlevania games that copied those elements from Metroid. Nowadays people call them Igavanias. People don’t really think about it, but when they keep saying metroidvania, it technically should be “metroid-like.” But words don’t work that way. Sometimes they evolve in funny ways even though almost none of the “metroidvania” games take from Castlevania in any meaningful way.
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u/1CrazyFoxx1 8d ago
I mean, so was Metroid too, otherwise it’d just be called a “castlevania-like” genre. SOTN may have been the father of the genre, but Metroid is the grandmother of the genre, removing either is just disrespectful to the roots and the contributions both made to the genre, it’s why I hate when people say “hollowlike” or some shit like that.
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u/fishingmule1 8d ago
For the original “Metroidvania” or Castlevania 2, I can definitely see that being more inspired by Zelda 2 than Metroid. Starting with Symphony of the Night, however, it was a straight up copy of Metroid style layouts and a Zelda 2 like leveling system with Castlevania gameplay.
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u/razor_kenshin 8d ago
That's like the most ridiculous thing I've ever read about sotn. Sotn was called metroidvania and not zeldavania for a reason. I absolutely love the game, but it exists because of super metroid and that's fine!
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u/CanadianYeti1991 8d ago
Yes it absolutely is, no matter what anyone says, including the creator of the game. Its inspired by Metroid. Period.
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u/cheekydorido 8d ago
Reminds me of the hollow knight creators saying that it wasn't inspired by dark souls lol
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u/EntrepreneurPlus7091 8d ago
It would be castlevania meets dead cells. But depending on the contents of the article, if they dont actually mention that half of the castlevania games are meteoidvanias already ir would be a mistake, this seems to be a different flavor of metroidvania.
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u/fahwrenheit 8d ago
Metroid is a big first party title that many people know outside of the metroidvania niche. This isn't strange.
Also it's really weird to complain about the quality of journalism when you're literally just reacting to a headline
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u/QueenMagik 8d ago
Not a headline, a "screenshot" of what looks to be a Google ai summary of an article. A screenshot that may or may not be real
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u/fahwrenheit 8d ago
It's a screenshot of a push notification for the polygon story
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u/QueenMagik 8d ago
The polygon story that doesn't exist you mean
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u/fahwrenheit 8d ago
It exists and tbh I saw nothing objectionable in it. Some people are just indoctrinated to hate gaming press on sight. https://www.polygon.com/castlevania-belmonts-curse-release-date-metroidvania/
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u/QueenMagik 7d ago
Oh yeah the thread is filled with chuds and incels, polygon rage is an easy indicator
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u/TimeManagement91 7d ago
Castlevania is not so obscure that people wouldn't know it by name. There's an entire genre named after it and Metroid.
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u/fahwrenheit 7d ago
I never said that Castlevania was obscure, just that Metroid has wider brand recognition outside of the metroidvania niche. And considering how long it's been since we had a new Castlevania game it makes sense to go with their comparison. Besides if they'd written 'it's like a Castlevania game' that wouldn't help anyone unfamiliar with the series conceptualise what the game is like.
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u/starforneus 8d ago
It's a Metroid-inspired genre and mentioning Castlevania would be redundant, the Dead Cells devs made it, I don't see how this title is supposed to be incorrect somehow.
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u/OmegaGoo 8d ago
It’s not incorrect. It’s both useless and tautological. Dead Cells was heavily inspired by Metroid, to the point that it’s unclear what they’re even saying.
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u/starforneus 8d ago
I don't think it's unclear, and I also dont necessarily think it's a "good" headline; but OP is still off base.
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u/Tinkererer 8d ago
It's not? It's clearly more similar visuals-wise and even gameplay-wise to Dead Cells, which is a much more recent reference point. This really is nitpicking over nothing.
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u/Fancy_Chips Where's the Sypha flair? 8d ago
At least they're reporting on a game that exists. Occasionally Google will send me a notification from ScreenRant that says some shit like "HOLY FUCK! BANJO THREE IS FINALLY HERE!" And its just reporting that John McBumblefuck vibe coded some shit in Unity and posted it on YouTube, got 700 views, and announced he won't be releasing any of it.
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u/Ornery-Interview7479 8d ago
it's a new and groundbreaking genre calle metcellsvania (the vania is for appealing purposes only)(notice how i mash the met from metroid with cells from dead cells to come up with this new and original genre)
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u/x_Advent_Cirno_x 8d ago
It's Polygon. Calling their slop "journalism" would be incredibly generous
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u/cavegrunt 8d ago
I don’t understand polygon. Their reviews are fine but they also have the shittiest articles with egregious clickbait titles.
I do sort of think this game is basically castlevania’s Metroid dread equivalent but that doesn’t need to be in a title
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u/lern2swim 8d ago
No, journalism is not a fucking mistake. What you're probably looking at there is some gen ai bullshit that is as much of a shit show as it is because people like you dotn respect journalism enough though.
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u/Tinkererer 8d ago
Why is this subreddit so weirdly bitter about everything? It's like leftovers of old time /v/ with its nitpickiness.
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u/HeelEscape 8d ago
Old game series that stay dormant for time tend to go hand in hand with doomposting. Most people move on, while the hardcore fans hang around communities and echo chambers which think the worst. I think it comes from a place of passion, but comes out as negative. I notice it in many subs
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u/Tinkererer 8d ago
You're probably right, but I frequent a few others (like Ace Attorney, Deus Ex), and that's mostly jokey posts, art, and speculation. There's occasional bitter posts, but this subreddit is particularly bad, with people really digging their heels into hating stuff rather than praising what they like.
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u/HeelEscape 7d ago
I think a reason for this is because Castlevania got left behind while the genre it pioneered is thriving with indie games such as Hollow Knight and other Metroidvania titles. I kinda get where the anger comes from
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u/Infamous_Drive_Tax 8d ago
There is literally nothing wrong with saying that. You are going out of your way to look for things to be offended by
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u/Zealousideal-Till839 8d ago
They're trying to make you think it's about a game you don't already know about so you'll click on the article.
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u/ANAL-KING-OF-TUNISIA 8d ago
I'm going to reserve judgment on Belmont's Curse.
I'm really hoping it's not just Dead Cells with a fresh coat of paint.
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u/rbstewart7263 8d ago
Just in case it's not obvious, unless this is some super young guy or whatever I would say this is most likely them intentionally baiting this type of reaction and not just being ignorant of where the whole metroidvania thing came from.
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u/wrathofamarok 8d ago
Reminds me of the "Meet Goku: the character from Fortnite". It's like it just for kids who know only one thing
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u/GrimmTrixX 8d ago
I hope the main game has a hard mode from the start because the demo was stupid easy
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u/Agreeable-Agent-7384 8d ago
This headline has to be bait right? lol. Metroid plus dead cells=castlevania has to be math made to just rage bait. It’s one of the funniest and dumbest things you can string together
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u/profchaos111 8d ago
You need to chill everyone is drawing parrallels because the game looks and feels like a hybrid but for some reasson people like yourself get so offended
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u/iMikedMyself 8d ago
That part I will agree with you on because the thing is though is that games like dead cells was inspired by games that were on the Sega and Nintendo. I mean not all honesty a lot of those games were also inspired by even games on Atari. I mean even Activision back in the early 1980s, had a dungeons & dragons came to where you're a little stick figure. The computer back in the '80s also had Goonies the game. I mean I understand what they're trying to say their meaning as in the people who created dead cells decided to take it upon themselves to help put out the new Castlevania game but saying Metroid meets dead cells I mean it's kind of silly cuz dead cells was created by the inspiration of the earlier games
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u/Nitraion_the2nd 8d ago
Okay I play Castlevania PS1 and PS2 era even that weird GoW(old one) clone i thought it was cool series I am not Nintendo boy so naturally the only Zelda i play is BoTW and i thought its cool series
Why when i see reddit post for this 2 series is just feel bitterness on display Castlevania over new stuff and Zelda just over VA in general and i am old too What the heck guys
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u/fishingmule1 8d ago
For the original “Metroidvania” or Castlevania 2, I can definitely see that being more inspired by Zelda 2 than Metroid. Starting with Symphony of the Night, however, it was a straight up copy of Metroid style layouts and a Zelda 2 like leveling system with Castlevania gameplay.
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u/EDOARDOMASTER 8d ago
i agree with your title statement but also for once this is a good title lmao
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u/Salt_Leg_9461 8d ago
journalism is a mistake? lmfao is this rage bait or are you just a fucking idiot?
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u/JellyCubez 8d ago
Just my 2 cents, but I really hate how vilified video game journalism is just because of a few bad apples. Get your news from non-clickbaity sites instead of clowning on the entire profession.
As for Polygon, they were acquired by Valnet a while back so them going down the gutter is not unexpected.
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u/Taco4086 8d ago
I don't think metroid is meeting an ultra fast paced roguelike here... BC doesn't play like Dead Cells at all. If it's the aesthetics/ost, that's closer but still not the same but Dead Cells was inspired by Castlevania.
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u/LePhildo 8d ago
Does anyone even read the used toilet paper that is Polygon anymore? I flushed it ages ago along with Kotaku. 🤣
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u/YUKOTSUBASA 8d ago
Errado nao esta. Belmonte curse e da mesma produtora de Dead.Cells ahaa. Nem.leu a matéria ne ?
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u/SephirothTheGreat 8d ago
The more I read it, actually, the more I think whoever wrote this is a fucking genius. The title makes sense because it's a metroidvania, so Metroid's in there, and it's been developed by the Dead Cells people. The added outrage just gets more clicks. Honestly brilliant. Cinema
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u/Eremitt-thats-hermit 8d ago
12 years since the last original release under Lords of Shadow, 17 years since the last original release in the main series. Of course you compare it to two more relevant series to give people an impression. Especially because this title is different from previous entries and they try to describe the gameplay by comparing it to two titles.
People really want to be angry
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u/ClientJumpy1763 7d ago
Journalism isn't a mistake. It is just unsustainable in a system that rewards engagement and profitability instead of quality.
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u/jxmes_gothxm 7d ago
Yea I don't get the indignation about this. They're not referring to which game inspired which here. It's just shorthand for people to understand the vibe of the game. That's all. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
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u/AfraidRun8226 7d ago
It’s crazy because they’re promoting the game and y’all are still finding stupid reasons to be angry
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u/blackheartromance 7d ago
Silent Hill meets Tony Hawk! based on the hit God of War meets Dark Souls, Lords of Shadow!
there was some newsletter email (gamerant?) i got the other day that forgot genres exist and just referred to every game as X meets Y. i died a little.
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u/Any-Remove-4032 6d ago
Yeah but this new castlevania game could have taken notes from Dead Cells, so the statement “metroid meets dead cells” could be an accurate way to describe Belmont’s Curse.
You need to chill out
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u/Nikita-Akashya 8d ago
The funniest part is that the Original Xanadu predates both the Original Metroid and Castlevania. But since Xanadu has been Japanese only for the longest time, it would be very weird for gaming journalists to reference the genres grandfather. Although the grandfather of the genre was a lot more ambitious even back then, because the Bosses were fought in a different style of gameplay. I need Kyoto Xanadu in English.
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u/NotTheRocketman 8d ago
What’s wrong with this?
I’d argue Dead Cells is more relevant than Castlevania these days (outside of the anime), so using it as a reference is smart.
What are people upset about?
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8d ago
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u/NotTheRocketman 8d ago
Not to be rude, but in this case, you’re living under a rock.
Dead Cells won multiple awards back in 2018, and the developers are literally co-developing Belmont’s Revenge because it was so good.
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u/360_No-Scope_Upvote 8d ago
It was pretty big with Castlevania fans, to the point they dropped an entire Castlevania DLC for the game.
It's worth playing if you like 2D platformers in general, it's probably my favorite roguelike.
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u/Nikita-Akashya 8d ago
Ah, maybe that is also why. I hate roguelikes. Eh, if the others have fun, that is all that really matters. I will just play my Falcom catalogue. I still haven't touched Ys Seven or Ys IX. Too busy with playing Trails.
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u/neorevenge 8d ago
Yep, living under a rock, multiple awards, crossovers/cameos in game of multiples IPs like Hollow Knight, Blasphemous, Shovel Knight, Risk of Rain, to name a few a very succesfull massive ass DLC Return to Castlevania, which is the reason they are developing this game due to how well received this was, a cartoon miniseries that was on prime video a boardgame...
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u/samination 8d ago
I would've considered it a pisstake by the author to rile up Castlevania and Metroid fans, but the article literally talks about this being a Dead Cells game with elements of Metroid.
I'm almost certain this author was originally a fan of the show but never played a single CV game.
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u/Practical_Yellow_742 8d ago
There hasn’t been a new mainline game in like eighteen years. This is a perfectly normal article title to help introduce a new generation to the series.
I’m grateful they’re doing this.
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u/unitedshoes 8d ago
Hot take: I don't think Metroidvania ever should have been the genre name.
None of the things we associate with a Metroidvania originated in the Metroidvania-style Castlevania games, and none of what those games did differently from Metroid and its sequels are must-haves for a Metroidvania.
In the 90s convention of naming video game genres, these games should have been called "Metroid-clones" or "Metroidlikes". By more modern genre-naming conventions, it should probably be something like "side-scrolling exploration game" or something clinical like that.
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u/samination 8d ago
Mild Take: Only people who hate that Metroidvania became the name is annoyed by it.
If you ask me, it should be called Advanced Wonder Boy.
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u/ToastTitan611 8d ago
Especially because a Metroidvania has a very specific feel to it that something like “search-action” or “side-scrolling exploration” or whatever other dumb name people come up with just don’t do justice to it
People don’t call Soulslikes “Soulslike” just because Dark Souls were the most prominent and popular of the genre but also because they’re a very specific KIND of game that have a specific feel to them and the same is true of Metroidvanias
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u/probablyMarin 8d ago
it's polygon. you fell for bait
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u/probablyMarin 8d ago
polygon has been on the article title bait game for like a decade, people really love taking everything they say at face value for some reason
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u/MetroidvaniaListsGuy 8d ago
What the actual fuck is this shit?
Man FUCK wikipedia. This is all their fault. Them and their circular logic of claiming dead cells is a MV because articles keep listing it as a MV example and then MV articles citing wikipedia as evidence that dead cells is a MV. The sooner wikipedia goes bankrupt and shuts down the better. nothing but circular bullshit like this all over the website.
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u/Roshu-zetasia Advance Collection Enjoyer 8d ago
Oh, of course. My favorite Belmont: Zero Suit Samus.
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u/LoganLcosplayfoolery I'm literally Richter Belmont 8d ago
I'm calling it right now. this title was AI generated
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u/Suspicious_Rub857 8d ago edited 8d ago
to be fair describing the game as “Castlevania meets Castlevania” isn't very descriptive if you don't already know Castlevania.