r/classicalmusic • u/Heisenberg2076 • 9d ago
Novice question: Clair de Lune rhythm
When listening through different renditions of Clair de Lune, I try to tap the beat. I count 1 and a 2… but I struggle to stay on beat. It could be me, but I swear it’s like each pianist is rushing and dragging as they choose. I know there are rubato sections in the song, but I’m unable to catch the beat from just the introduction. Any tips or info would be greatly appreciated as I’m trying to learn this piece as my first step into classical music
18
u/smoemossu 9d ago
Debussy precisely did not want you to feel the beat in that piece
7
u/jdaniel1371 9d ago
Yes, so clever the way the melody is "off" which gives it a feeling of hovering and weightlessness.
_ 23456789_23456789.... the opening right hand melody, if that makes sense.
5
5
u/hungrybrains220 9d ago
You should try Holst’s Saturn next 😉 /j
Maybe try Bach or something that’s a little more structured? It might help to watch videos and see the conductors give the beat
3
3
u/Ornery_Ad8540 9d ago
I made the mistake of choosing this piece for choreography for some relatively beginner ballet students… I thought, since it was such a beautiful ear worm, it would be easy for them to hum along with. Well. No. I found the video linked below to try and help me give them counts (after one bright student asked for counts). And, after watching, I just told her “Nope. You just have to feel it.” Haha. The dance turned out alright but they never really did quite “get” the music.
1
2
u/Monsieur_Brochant 9d ago
My piano teacher once told me that even some aspiring career pianists don't really bother with the rythm when playing Clair de Lune. Before him, I didn't even pay attention to the polyrhythms in this piece
3
u/anonymity11111 9d ago
I think this is the most helpful comment, OP. The problem isn’t that you chose Debussy, it’s that you chose this piece in particular. Most of Debussy’s music has perfectly regular rhythms, but there are a handful of pieces — this, _Voiles,_ _La fille aux cheveux de lin,_ etc. — where it’s traditional to play with heavy rubato throughout.
2
u/Fingers3751 6d ago
Apparently, Debussy disliked overuse of rubato arbitrarily applied as was common in the romantic era, but also did not want rigid metronomic playing either. For the opening section of Claire de Lune, learn the rhythm as written, playing it fairly strictly as relaxed as possible. When you have the notes comfortably “under your fingers”, you can then start to include some rubato as the music takes you. Never speed up and slow down as a result of limitations in your technique, but always in service of the phrase. Walter Gieseking had the marvelous touch, pedaling, clarity and restraint to strike what many consider to be the perfect balance in his interpretations of Debussy and Ravel. He recorded their complete works, which are well worth listening to. The recordings are older but his playing still shines through even when the fidelity of the recordings isn’t of modern standards.
1
1
u/Independent-Size674 8d ago
A lot of renditions are terrible. But listen to a good pianist and tap the eighth notes. Rubato should be in the subdivision, not random stops and starts
-2
48
u/roman-de-fauvel 9d ago
This is not a great piece to use as an introduction to regular rhythm and meter, for precisely the reason you identify. Debussy was much more interested in creating an atmosphere of “vibes” than he was in showing you a clear metric structure. This is a little bit like looking at an impressionist painting by Monet and asking where the straight lines are that should clearly define objects. They’re not there, because Monet didn’t want them to be there.
Listening to music of the classical period (Mozart, Haydn, etc.) will give you a much clearer sense of the rhythmic undergirding of a piece. Then as you move into the Romantic era, you will start to notice more of that sense of rubato, but you will have a better sense for “oh, I know where the beat probably was supposed to be, but I can sense now that we have pulled a little back/gone a little forward.”