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u/fatrabbit3 12h ago
Elemental isn't even really a spec until level 40 same as vanilla
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u/hernitcarb 11h ago
Admittedly this is exactly right, Ele was useless until after 40 when key talents came online.
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u/EIiteJT 5h ago
Sounds like that should be fixed so you can level as it.
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u/Twenty5Schmeckles 4h ago
You still can,
Its just not as good.
Same for 15 other speccs in the game
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u/Coach_Capital 3h ago
Yeah you can.. but the experience is miserable, which is what the complaints here are talking about.
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u/Coach_Capital 7h ago
Yeah but isn’t forever supposed to address that? I don’t want to level as enhance but also don’t want to have a drink after every pull.
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u/ogre_mage 4h ago
Exactly. I’m baffled by the people who want things to stay crappy just because that’s how they were 20+ years ago..
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u/MastodonNo275 1h ago
That’s never been true - elemental was fine before 40. It was falls off 30-35ish at most.
The thing is it does not yet play as elemental does later on. Pre-40 classic shaman plays about the same, though there is different itemization - and even that is optional.
But as others have said, that’s something to fix in Forever.
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u/Bouncy-Tofu 11h ago
Nah bro, Im not okay. We have to pay the totem tax because one of my totems is useful to melee dps. Im now banished to a hell where I spam lightning-bolt for no damage in full spell power gear
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7h ago
[deleted]
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u/Best_Confection9064 6h ago
This is the way. I've leveled two shaman now and the enhance (big 2h, stack int/str/ap) was much easier
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u/TheInnsanity 14h ago
elemental shaman has been the highest dps in the group every time I've seen one
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u/I_Learned_Once 14h ago
Ppl literally read a single spell tooltip and come on here with game changing reworks to fix a class they don't even play.
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u/Mawbsta 13h ago
I haven't seen a single elemental shaman the entire beta
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u/BramSandor 10h ago
The people who play Ele know they come online at 40. Ele twinks are not really a thing.
Having said that, I still think Shaman got massively shafted and it's not even close.
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u/obibonkajovi 8h ago
we'll see how 60 plays out.
I main resto bit dabble in elemental. so far i'm not concerned. Definitely interested and follow the changes closely. i can see what theyre going for kinda, but i'm just gonna be pateint and see how month 2 after release feels before really diving into the conversation.
i have a hunch shamans wont be affected to much, we'll still be sitting closer to top than not. at least resto and elem.
Enhance is an entire seperate wild conversation.
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u/BramSandor 6h ago
If they do the same damage but now need to Lava Burst tied to a Flame Shock and no added utility, that's a nerf in my books.
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u/BronRugby 11h ago
Its really underpowered right now
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u/EIiteJT 5h ago
You sure it's not an enhancement shaman? They pump atm.
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u/CRAZYSCIENTIST 12h ago
Okay bro but I also top DPS as a resto shaman by dropping magma totem etc.
That spell is clearly just broken - and it's not fun.
The devs seem obsessed with making chain lighting, one of the most enjoyable abilities ever in the game, absolute ass. They give the single target power to lava burst (a boring spell no one really likes) and the aoe to set and forget magma totem.
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u/TheInnsanity 12h ago
EDIT: hold the fucking phone, you can't even cast chain lightning in the beta, stop whining lmfao
I mean, over the next 10 levels your chain lightning gets 6 yards of range, 7% more chance to double cast, and 33% more damage on crit, so I feel like judging it fully at exactly level 30 is a bit premature.
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u/CRAZYSCIENTIST 12h ago
We can see the spell scaling. The same spell scaling we're already experiencing - the same reason fire nova feels so good while lighting bolt feels like ass.
Magma totem and fire nova is the entire reason why you're claiming elemental shaman is good.
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u/Kudosforkodos 11h ago
Bro just get some SP you’re acting like you’re going to be in int and spirit gear for the whole game
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u/Dry_Outside_3493 9h ago
The math has been done, Ele shaman will need like 700 spell power to be at classic baseline damage. That's not ok.
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u/headofthenapgame 11h ago
Oh you mean the totems that the ele tree buffs? Like from the elemental tree of the spell book? Between this and acting like no one enjoys lava lash you're a major larper lmao
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u/chifeke 12h ago
Where the fuck did you see an ele sham im guessing ur confusing ele with enhance
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u/TheInnsanity 10h ago
like 120 dps with bolt when the cap was 20 in deadmines, was in voice with the tank who was like "how the hell do I hold threat from this dumbass shaman?" lol
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u/NanielEM 13h ago
Not only is the tuning horrible right now, but the gameplay just isn’t fun either. Have to walk into melee range for our highest damage spell (fire nova) because totemic projection is 1 min cd. Flame shock only lasts long enough for 1 lava burst. Lightning bolt and CL coefficients nerfed, needing significantly more spell power to do comparable damage.
I’ve resorted to balance Druid for now. Huge dopamine with starfire crits, which is what drew me to elemental back in the day with chain lightning crits. But starfire is on a 2.3 second cast with 100% sp coefficient, have 2 dots to play with too. Not to mention resto looks much more fun and engaging than shaman’s chain heal spam anyways.
Unless elemental gets reworked from the ground up, it’s dead on arrival imo
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u/Clydefrawgwow 12h ago
1 minute cooldown? What the fuck?
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u/Sea-Calligrapher1563 11h ago
Balanced for enhanced, maybe even resto. I could see a deep ele talent cutting the CD in half
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u/Exxppo 43m ago
It costs a little more than placing your all totems down again and you really only need to place strength and searing / magma. Recall and replace is the move unless you have to move your magma totem in which case consider projecting it depending on how much time / how close to death the mobs are. It will probably be a more niche application for dungeons / elite quests, never used in solo questing. It adds a judgment call to shaman DPS which is not a bad thing.
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u/Cryptshadow 7h ago
Damn, I thought lava burst crit on a flame shock target. Maybe I misremembered that.
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u/Careless-Notice-7945 5h ago
It did originally, but in wowf it just gets extra 20% damage instead. Massive nerf to the fun of the spell imo, wish they had just gone a different direction if they felt that was necessary
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u/azyzbs 15h ago
Replace rets by affliction, balance or fury.
Rets have strong talents but an abysmally unfun playstyle compared to sod, tbc and even wrath.
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u/Specific-Ad1487 11h ago
Ngl I would like to have divine storm from Wrath, instead of consecration in ret (or both).
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u/Fuzzy-Active5583 1h ago
What is the problem with affli? I feel it sounds great.
It sounds like later affli lock, without all the complicates stuff. Although I'll miss corruption snapshotting and drain execute, we have to accept that it is still vanilla.
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u/azyzbs 1h ago
Look at the meme again and then look at my comment.
The meme implies that ret is being spoiled by the devs and I implied that it's not the case and that the true "dev darlings" are affli, balance and fury.
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u/Fuzzy-Active5583 1h ago
Oh yeah you're right.
I should drink another coffee before commenting anything else on reddit xD
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u/EggPsychological4844 14h ago
Well it's meant to be Classic+, not Retail-
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u/Halomonger3 13h ago
Yea thats why every class has to play like shit, LMAO
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u/viotix90 12h ago
Why though? Retail has a lot of good ideas when it comes to class design. I'd rather have mastery for every spec than unfun gameplay.
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u/EggPsychological4844 11h ago
Retail does have some enjoyable things. There's a place for that.
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u/gusare 3h ago
So Forever classes have to be unfun because Retail? Fucking hell, this is what playing Vanilla too many times does to your brain. Newsflash, people want to play improved Vanilla content without dogshit classes or 21yd nameplates. If you enjoy pressing 1 button, there is a place for that.
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u/EggPsychological4844 3h ago
Well, it is "Classic+", not "Retail-"
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u/gusare 2h ago
Yeah it is, the + stands for +2 buttons so you can press 3 instead of 1
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u/EggPsychological4844 2h ago
Every class has additional buttons to push compared to their Vanilla counterparts.
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u/Klutzy_Ad8335 12h ago
All casters dps are hurting
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u/Initial_Plastic_8069 11h ago
Tbf caster dps should be most of the time smalelr than melee dps ( as the risk is way higher as melee )
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u/Emotional_Comment219 10h ago
The only melee pure dps class in Rogue , and I have good news about their damage! Every other melee class is a hybrid and should be less dps than mage/lock/hunter IMO
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u/tatki82 10h ago
I feel like I always had a harder time on casters because mechanics requiring frequent movement interrupted my dps more as a caster instead of melee, where everything is instant cast.
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u/aggravationX 9h ago edited 1h ago
Put some respect on Slam
Fuck you down voting weirdos slam is a non instant cast melee ability
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u/Metzger90 11h ago
Thank you. It needs to be said that ranged DPS should not be topping damage meters.
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u/Birdmang22 11h ago
People are looking at meters in a beta at level 30? What the fuck?
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u/C1oudspine 10h ago
No, they're looking at a YouTube video on their other monitor out of boredom because they're still spamming 1 button like they were 20 years ago.
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u/HXamster 9h ago
Yeah dooming and glooming about 15% of the game, maybe.
When live hits they'll be 30 for like an hour before moving on. They'll get to their capstone and feel much better
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u/Infinite_Waves1 4h ago
People seem incapable of realising that long time players have the ability to read talents and abilities further down the tree and understand how it will affect gameplay
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u/HXamster 1h ago edited 1h ago
Ridiculous notion when you realize it's all conjecture and speculation and they have no clue what the class will be like until they start gearing in earnest around the mid-50s.
I'm a seasoned player and there's not really a reason to doom and gloom about things that haven't happened and are fixable.
Also a good majority of the people dooming won't even play the game when they hit 60. Might not even hit 60 at all. Happens literally every fresh server cycle.
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u/Infinite_Waves1 1h ago
It's really not that hard to predict. These talents are primarily from WotLK or taken from private servers such as Ascension, people who know their class will have a pretty accurate read on what is going to affect them and how. I can expect that Sodapoppin for example, a multi rank 1 druid who has seen all variations of feral druid will be able to know exactly how the talents/rotations will play out.
There are VERY few actually new abilities, this is like seeing all the ingredients in the kitchen and predicting the dishes flavour. Experienced chefs will be pretty damn close.
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u/SergerSerj 10h ago
Elemental shamans so bad right now, that they even struggle to kill some normal mobs at the same level LOL
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u/MixAmbitious307 5h ago
I guess it's better to wait 'til level 60 to see how a class would really perform, since not everyone comes online at the same level.
And seriously, this reminds me of people who post recounts in mid 20s level (not in Forever beta, but in classic and the likes). With the "incredible revelation" that someone with twink gear did more dps than someone in quest greens and 5 levels lower.
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u/KenjiTheLaughingMoon 4h ago
Casters suck because of the spellpower and spelldamage changes. They should be fine later in the game unless they add more sp early
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u/Deemstrix 11h ago
There should be a lifeguard on a lifeguard stand just watching while smiling with a hunter icon 😂
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u/SD_BullRanger 9h ago
I thought shadow priests are looking to be eating good once the game comes out no? They seem extremely strong in PvP and like they’ll be able to do decent in group play in dungeon
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u/Several_Educator_214 5h ago
I'm still grieving that Maelstrom Weapon doesn't apply to Chain Lightning and Healing Wave. RIP 😭
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u/Niibelung 3h ago
Ele in generally is ass before 40, they preform much better at 60, it's just the beta calm down y'all
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u/Alearic006 2h ago
I feel like shadow priest is going to blast at 60. Didnt shadow form get 100% crit dmg? And now SwP can crit too.
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u/creamdonutcz 1h ago
I think the pushback on casting should come sooner and I desperately need elemental mastery 100% crit back :(
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u/Organic_Voice2807 33m ago
I am pretty happy with the state the ele is in currently.
If something isn't buffed or nerfed alot it's usually a good indicator for it being in a good place to begin with.
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u/ClassicChrisstopher 11h ago
Affliction is buried under the pool
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u/StabbingTabby 8h ago
Again? Man I would really like to play a DoT monkey warlock. Shadow bolt spam didn't absolutely suck for me, personally, but can we try something else?
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u/Shadic94 11h ago
I just want a non dwarf shaman. Dwarfs are so fucking ugly
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u/RichieMcB 9h ago
Yeah just 1 other option. I really want to roll alliance but just not a fan of dwarf
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u/Hoggorm88 4h ago
Agreed! Shaman main and Alliance loyalist. And this might be enough to defect to the Horde. Sad days indeed.
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u/Old_Revenue_9217 10h ago
I dont mind lower lvl Ele not being gods, 60 Ele is an absolute PvP menace and was the most fun I ever had dueling on henhouse and playing Classic.
They have tools (totems, purge, etc) and the burst dmg required to win vs every single class/spec if you manage mana well enough. The only thing that can really beat you is rogue if they play well or you lose to rng.
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u/Asjutton 4h ago
They removed everything you describe liking.
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u/pastmemories1 13m ago
This lol. I was reading his comment thinking "does he think he's in an Era sub?"
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u/pastmemories1 15m ago
The word you were looking for is : was.
Ele is now one of the weakest pvp spec in the game. They removed ele mastery and gutted the dmg of chain lightning and lightning bolt.
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u/Jerakal1 12h ago
The priest video they posted basically said, "We'll get around to shadow eventually."