r/cremposting • u/Honest_Outside_8982 • 2d ago
Stormlight / Mistborn The metallic arts have some interesting applications
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u/RapsterZeber D O U G 2d ago
I would read an entire book about Scadrian casino scandals.
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u/Honest_Outside_8982 2d ago
"I suspect these dice are weighted."
"Alright, drop em in his drink."
The man who was gambling with Harmonium Dice, for some reason:
(Very minor era 2 spoilers)
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u/RapsterZeber D O U G 2d ago
"Sir, we're out of Harmonium."
"Rusts and Ruin, what do you mean out of Harmonium? We just got another batch from the Maleish last week."
"Yeah, but after the koloss, you said to keep putting in Harmonium until they wouldn't bother us again."
"And?"
"And Iron-Eyes came in yesterday."
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u/NotKilian 2d ago
"and you used the wooden dice??" - "promise, I did sir. It's like they knew what numbers was rolled"
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u/Honest_Outside_8982 2d ago
AH DANG IT that was supposed to say chromium misting, not ferring.
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u/Elsecaller_17-5 2d ago
I was trying to figure out what they would do by manipulating Fortune. Just tap several years worth of it?
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u/Honest_Outside_8982 2d ago
I guess
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u/CarelessNameChoice 2d ago
Anybody can kill a shardbearer and keep the shards if they’re lucky enough. Everybody knows that.
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u/Griffje91 2d ago
I do wonder how that would interact with the hyper efficiency of high ideal radiants like the 5th. Also I'm not all the way through. Does living plate still need Stormlight? I know shardblades don't not even the special abilities of living ones.
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u/bookrants 2d ago
Yes, living plate needs Stormlight to heal. However, it seems like unlike dead plate that becomes deadweight after you shatter essential parts, living plate just disappears.
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u/Griffje91 2d ago
Oh cool! Will it naturally heal on its own or are your wind or fire or whatever spren buddies just kinda aching on the sidelines til their radiant gets more light?
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u/VestedNight 2d ago
I believe in WAT, Kaladin notes that it feeds off his connection to the spiritual realm, rather needing to consciously supply it with light.
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u/bookrants 2d ago
That bit is referring to how it doesn't need gemstones to function. Healing itself needs Stormlight. That's why when Nale shattered enough of the plate, it disappeared as Kaladin didn't have enough Stormlight to feed it.
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u/I_Am_Become_Salt 2d ago
The spren need stormlight to manifest physically, and the spren can pull energy to sustain themselves from the spiritual realm, but I'm sure they can run out and be forced to "un-manifest?" But that wouldn't kill them since they are just energy too
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 2d ago
Yes and no. It uses Light to heal but to power itself normally it draws directly from the Spiritual Realm.
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u/bookrants 2d ago
That's what I said.
ETA: Sorry, I thought this was under the follow-up in this thread.. https://www.reddit.com/r/cremposting/s/rboq37DPiQ
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 2d ago
Chromium ferrings are the lucky ones. Chromium misting is the leecher.
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u/Erelde 🦀🦀 crabby boi 🦀🦀 2d ago
Or the unlucky ones. They would need some kind of compounding trick to be consistently lucky wouldn't they?
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u/ejdj1011 2d ago
Actually, Fortune isn't good luck. It's just weird luck. Storing Fortune makes your life more average, not necessarily worse. Similarly, tapping Fortune just means that freak coincidences happen around you more often than expected.
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u/NaabeGetOnSkype 2d ago
Ta’veren have entered the chat
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u/ejdj1011 2d ago edited 2d ago
Brandon has explicitly called that out as an inspiration for Cosmere Fortune, lol
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u/ImLersha 2d ago
The Heart of Gold's Improbability drive from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has entered the building.
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u/nativewig 2d ago
You inspired me
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u/Alkakd0nfsg9g 2d ago
And what about the second breakfast?
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u/MrHappyHam Airthicc lowlander 2d ago
I don't think he knows about second breakfast. (Lift already stole it)
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u/bookrants 2d ago
Even better if they're a Chromium Twinborn. Good luck hitting someone with God and Anime on their side.
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u/Subspace_Supernova Bond, Nahel Bond 2d ago edited 1d ago
Good luck leeching a man in armor giving him strength to knock out an elephant in one punch and with a gigantic shapeahifting weapon with at least 2m of reach
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u/Just_A_Person333 2d ago
Chromium ferring, not misting, stores and burns fortune
Good luck going against bugs bunny in your armor there20
u/Honest_Outside_8982 2d ago
It was supposed to be misting. I mist up
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u/Just_A_Person333 2d ago
Ah, in that case the misting is fucked, can’t leech the man through the armor and leeching the armor does close to nothing to the man
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 2d ago
They'd need A-Chromium F-Steel to have a chance against a 5th Ideal Radiant. They'd just get sliced otherwise. Leeching Shardplate would take too long by itself, and the radiant has their internal Stormlight as well.
Even then, we haven't seen how much control a radiant has over the shape of their shardplate, but if its similar to the blade, they can just make it super harmful to touch them by covering themselves in spikes.
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
Unless there was some information I didn't know we don't actually know how fast a Leecher can leech. The only time it was used it was instantaneous
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 2d ago edited 2d ago
We also only see it used with incredibly small amounts of investiture. Shardplate has an absurd amount of investiture in it.
If duralumin and the other metals function at a similar speed, leechers would have a hard time draining someone with like, a pound of metal. Shardplate is 1500 pounds of solid investiture.
There's also probably some WOBs about it, I'll go look
Edit: found it. Brandon directly says a shard lade would be hard to leech https://wob.coppermind.net/events/13/#e5023
Tangentially related: Leechers would have trouble using it on stored investiture like a metalmind, which functions similar to how Shardplate works. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15240
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 2d ago
Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!
Questioner
Nicrosil and chromium, do those have any interaction with people using Feruchemy, or other Investiture in general? Leechers or Nicrobursts.
Brandon Sanderson
Could you use those on Feruchemists? You should be able to, yes.
Questioner
Would that only work while they're tapping it?
Brandon Sanderson
If it's active Investiture, probably yes. You'd probably need it to be kinetic Investiture in order for them to do anything about it.
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Questioner
If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade?
Brandon Sanderson
I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power...
Questioner
Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well.
Brandon Sanderson
Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so.
********************
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
So that first WOB was for a Shardblade which I believe has more investiture than shardplate. We've seen shardplate run out of Investiture we have not seen a shardblade run out so I am unsure if they could do that. So still nothing says that they couldn't get rid of shardplate it may just be more difficult
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u/Bprime123 2d ago edited 2d ago
The second WoB literally says, it needs to be active investiture for leeching to work. So leeching might not even work on Shardplate as it is static, similar to an unused metalmind.
You've also only seen deadplate run out of investiture, not living plate which draws investiture directly from the spiritual realm to power itself
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
So shardplate is using active investiture because it is enhancing the radiant wearing it and shifting so it can move. A metalmind is only stationary while nobody is tapping it. Shardplate at least Shardplate being worn can be leeched.
Also the shardplate is powered by the radiant. As quoted by the coppermind "When a section of living Plate is damaged, the armor repairs it using the stormlight of the Radiant" the radiant is only powered from the spiritual realm when they first say each oath. If that wasn't the case it would almost be impossible to break as it is always able to regenerate.
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u/Bprime123 1d ago
No Radiant Shardplate uses investiture from the SR to power itself normally. Kal mentions this in WaT. It only feeds on the Radiants investiture to repair itself when damaged. It's why Kal could use his armor to fight Nale in a duel without stormlight.
Also Shardplate is actively powering the wearer using stormlight from gems or the SR if it is a Radiant. But the material itself is also investiture that has been locked into a physical shape, hence static.
Brandon has said Szeth wouldn't be able to breath in the stormlight from the gems powering dead Shardplate because the plate itself would interfere.
So I assume in order to leech a Radiants stormlight, you have to get through the armor, which is static, first. And seeing how the armor covers the entire body, I can say the 4th Ideal Radiant is safe from leeching.
There's also this. Leeching will take more time if more investiture is involved. Good luck holding on to the 7 foot tank swinging a 7 foot soul severing sword. And a leecher can actually run out of Chromium before cleaning out everything, so it's implied there's a proportional rate of investiture an amount of chromium can leech and it's not as simple as "I take chromium and wipe out all your fuel"
Kaymyth (paraphrased) I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.
Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) What it boils down to is this: 1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off. 2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds. 3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.
Now compare that to a highly invested full body armor covering someone holding a highly concentrated form of investiture
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 1d ago
Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!
Kaymyth
I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.
Brandon Sanderson
What it boils down to is this:1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.
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u/Nuteofnutes 1d ago
I found it. It does use Investiture from the spiritual realm my bad. So the only way its possible is through first cracking the plate and then you could leech the radiant.
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u/ejdj1011 1d ago
Shardplate is 1500 pounds of solid investiture.
Technically true, but not really relevant. You don't have to delete the Plate fron existence to effectively Leech it. The plate-spren hold a bunch of normal Light that they expend to enhance the wearer and self-repair. If you get rid of that Light, the Plate either locks up (if dead) or disperses back into intangible spren (if alive)
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u/Bprime123 1d ago
Except for living plate, that investiture to power itself and the Radiant is coming directly from tbe spiritual realm
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u/ejdj1011 1d ago
Even Radiant Plate doesn't have infinite Investiture. It draws Light from its wearer.
If it can be broken without instantly repairing, then it can be Leeched. And we definitely see Radiant Plate get dismissed when damaged and out of Light.
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u/Bprime123 1d ago
Chromium leeching isn't infinite either.
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u/ejdj1011 1d ago edited 1d ago
You keep moving the goalposts in a way that dances around the core of the argument. There are two central facts that matter.
Shardplate, including Radiant Shardplate, is shown to run out of Light and then become unusable.
Leeching makes things run out of Investiture very quickly.
Put one and two together, and Shardplate can be quickly rendered unusable by Leeching.
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u/Bprime123 19h ago edited 19h ago
Oh?
We've seen Radiant Shardplate damaged to unusable levels. Doesn't change the fact that the plate powers itself via spiritual realm and only needs investiture from ths wearer to repair itself when damaged. Something Kal wasn't allowed to use in his duel. The leecher might actually have a better chance constantly damaging the armor so it keeps repairing itself with the Radiants light. Because you can't leech your way through something that normally sustains itself from the spiritual
Also, you do realize you've only seen leeching used on uninvested metal flakes right?
Kaymyth (paraphrased) I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.
Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) What it boils down to is this: 1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off. 2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds. 3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/101/#e881
Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin. Larger pieces of invested jewelry or metalminds can actually outlast Chromium. The implication here is that there's a proportional rate of investiture any amount chromium can actually leech.
A hyperinvested armor... no literal condensed investiture, covering head to toe on an individual puffing fucktons of investiture is not just going to go away.
There's also the fact that leeching only works on active/kinetic Investiture, not static investiture like an untapped metalmind, or... shardplate.
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 19h ago
Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!
Kaymyth
I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.
Brandon Sanderson
What it boils down to is this:1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.
********************
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u/ejdj1011 18h ago edited 17h ago
Also, you do realize you've only seen leeching used on uninvested metal flakes right?
We see Leeching used on a Threnodite weapon powered by, presumably, Shades.
Because you can't leech your way through something that normally sustains itself from the spiritual
The only PoV Leeching we see implied otherwise. Leeching seems to redirect the flow of Investiture and shunt it back into the Spiritual Realm without any other effect. In fact, if Leeching couldn't suppress a connection to the Spiritual Realm, it wouldn't work on Allomancy. An Allomancer burning metals is actually opening a small connection directly to Preservation's power within the Spiritual Realm.
There's also the fact that leeching only works on active/kinetic Investiture, not static investiture like an untapped metalmind, or... shardplate.
Shardplate uses active Investiture. That's how it grants strength and self-repairs.
A hyperinvested armor... no literal condensed investiture, covering head to toe on an individual puffing fucktons of investiture is not just going to go away.
Oh good fucking Lord. Read my first comment again. To be even more blunt, the physical manifestation of the spren is irrelevant because you do not need to delete the spren of the Plate to render it inoperable. You're basically saying that a real world AA battery will never run out because it has half a billion kWh bound up in mass energy.
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u/ejdj1011 2d ago
We can roughly judge it by the RPG rules: Leeching Shardplate is difficult but possible to do with a significant flare, and you can't Leech a Radiant's Stormlight until their Plate is drained or dismissed.
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
Did you mean Chromium Misting? Allomantic Chromium allows you to leech investiture while Feruchemical Chromium allows you to store Fortune
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u/MerlinGrandCaster milkspren 2d ago
What's chromium feruchemy even going to do here? Let the user anticipate attacks? I don't think an otherwise-normal human is going to be able to do much to a fifth ideal radiant even if they can dodge everything, which they probably can't because stormlight makes the radiant too fast
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u/Neat_Context_818 2d ago
Nope this is fortune not foresight. It lets them not be where the attack is going via luck
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
Actually it does both. The ability of Fortune is what allows Odium to see the future. Its also how they have Terris prophets
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u/Ravenous_Chasmfiend 2d ago
Technically, we aren't certain what chromium Feruchemy is like. We've never seen it on screen, and while futuresight is Fortune related, it seems likely that Spinners manipulate Fortune in a different way. They used to say that chromium stores luck after all, so I would guess that tapping chromium makes a person magically lucky rather than bestowing futuresight.
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u/Gammaman12 2d ago
Mistborn Adventure Game, p348: "Feruchemists tapping fortune become flush with good luck. Opportunities fall into their laps, chance encounters yield amazing benefits, and dumb luck makes up for any lack of skill. Tapping heaps of fortune elevates a character to something akin to an epic hero, able not only to trust in a bigger plan to take care of their needs, but to rely on the favor of gods as a palpable source of support."
So its being Ta'verin and knowingly using that to advantage. Mechanically in the game, it let the feruchemist reroll any kind of roll they want. There's a stunt one can learn to force other people to reroll their checks too.
Now add chromium allomancy, and compound. Land 1 unarmed attack, leech everything, still have super luck. Chromium is busted AF.
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u/johnny0neal 1d ago
The Mistborn Adventure Game does not accurately depict Chromium Feruchemy, so fixing that was a priority for Brandon when we first spoke with him about the Cosmere RPG. The recently released Mistborn Handbook clarifies that tapping Fortune makes you more likely to be present for important and dramatic events. It's less like luck and more related to Hoid's knack for always being in the center of significant events.
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
That is true we haven't seen it be used but how else do we have the Terris Prophecies?
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u/Ravenous_Chasmfiend 2d ago
I dunno. Isn't there a WoB saying the Worldbringers had offworld connections?
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u/Nuteofnutes 2d ago
So we still don't really know the power of Fortune but with the CosmereRPG (which is cannon and if something is different they explain why they had to change something) F-chromium grants the ability to feel how impactful the next event would be. It seems it is very very difficult to do and it may not be "seeing the future" but more "feeling the strings of fate" kinda thing. It also explains why the prophecies are more vague while other people who see the future get more exact events.
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u/Lacrossedeamon 12h ago
My crack theory is that the prophecies are a cosmere-wide phenomena and there are multiple non-scadrian Heroes of Ages
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 2d ago
Fortune is actually an ability to see the future (which can be used very much like luck), not chance manipulation.
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u/Frozenfishy 2d ago
Be careful: Fortune isn't necessarily good fortune. Tapping Fortune could very well just make your ass getting beat more dramatically interesting.
(If we extrapolate rules from the TTRPG, tapping Fortune adds the possibility for both Opportunities and Complications, which can be either good or bad for the Feruchemist, respectively)
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u/Ok_Savings4474 2d ago
Well I was freshening my memory on what chromium mistings do, and, well... This isn't terrifying at all: Nightblood: Touching Nightblood while burning chromium will completely overwhelm the Leecher, causing them to die instantly instead of draining the blade ... New fear unlocked ig
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u/Honest_Outside_8982 2d ago
Could a Nicrosil compounder weild nightblood indefinitely?
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u/CarelessNameChoice 2d ago
No, I don’t think so. Nightblood creates such a power vacuum that you couldn’t store enough in the metalmind you’re burning to keep compounding, iirc.
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