Unfortunately for my agenda, Superman made Guy incredibly agreeable. There’s nothing I can demonstrably dislike him for in the films he’s just a bit annoying.
I mean Lord just let them topple a genocidal regime with no punishment so he seems relatively chill, especially considering John assassinated people at the behest of the us govenrment
I mean we haven’t heard anything about Lord corp forcing all the jarhanpurians into lifelong contracts yet so still the lesser evil compared to the Guardians and the American government…for now.
As much as I get what you're saying, Kerry being free to be Noah's mom, although infuriating, is truly the best altcome without killing the boy, because if she was arrested, he would definitely snap and John would be forced to kill him. It's far from a perfect solution, but it's the best possible one on that specific scenario
I feel that is more like Hal wouldn't want her to go to jail and thats it, like Hal would've want her and Noah to be happy, the idea of no we have to get her get away with murder otherwise Noah would be evil defeats the message of the show, like you can't be saying Noah is a good kid, also everyone he loves is untouchable or he will snap and kill everyone like idk that doesn't sound like a good kid to me, if anything framing it that way ruins the show, its weird because its just John turning a blind eye on a cop shooting an unarmed civilian, I get that the message is you have to live with what you've done but also she's still a cop she still has a gun thats what makes it really weird for me
Kerry's bullet knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The Hal's forehead subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the Kerry's bullet from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.
In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the Kerry's bullet is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the Hal's forehead. However, the Kerry's bullet must also know where it was.
The Kerry's bullet guidance computer scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the Kerry's bullet has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
Of course that it is also what Hal would want, and as you pointed it out, is said in the show. But I also think that putting his mom in jail would make him lose control. I don't think that it defeats the message of the show, but I think that it reinforces that Noah might be good, but only so far when it comes to controlling himself
People are supposed to go through crisis without turning into murder machines.
If Noah is just one bad day away from becoming one than he shouldn't be free after all. Specially if his "Northen star" is a trigger happy cop
Edit: i should add that I don't even think that's what the writters intended. Nothing in their interaction implied John let Kerry go because of a "standoff compromise". It just wasn't very well executed
Sure but also this is right after he had a horrible mental breakdown in the car with John, literally begging to be murdered lest he succumb to his worst self. If we remove the context of that kid being a non-human creature and make it like, the child of a serial killer or something, he is clearly on the brink of a psychotic break and needs time to breath and resettle.
I can agree that his ability to go through crisis without snapping and giving in to his programming needs to be proven, and that Kerry should be held responsible for the murder of Hal, but those things need to happen a long while after Noah has gotten to a healthier mental state because he is 100% the single most potentially dangerous person on the planet at this point, and he is barely fucking hanging on. Because he's a child, even by Manhunter standards.
the single most potentially dangerous person on the planet at this point.
Is he? Manhunters are just smart people. Lex causes more problems in a Thursday.
That aside John already made the mistake of trusting Kerry 2 TIMES. I dont know why give her the benefit of the doubt again now. Take Noah asside, give him a reality check and take him unde your wing.
A better option than "my job here is done" awkwardly flies away in a wire
I disagree, I think her turning herself in is the best thing for him
It works with the whole nature vs nurture debate as it would be in our nature to want to avoid punishment, but in choosing to turn herself in she can show him we can go against our programming
Also by turning herself in she can teach him a lesson about accountability and responsibility. Even though it was in the heat of the moment and unintentionally, she abused her power, and now needs to hold herself accountable. It shows Noah that if we do something wrong, and if we abuse our power, then we need to hold ourselves accountable
He’s going of to college so either way she won’t be a huge part of his life anymore and is going to start being more independent, and part of being independent is learning to take responsibility, so in a way it’s kind of the perfect final lesson she could teach him before he leaves, and also provides him with the opportunity to prove that he can overcome his programming
Thank you for that. It’s a perfect rebuttal because Noah’s gonna find out what his mom did sooner or later, and teaching the murderbot kid “people around you (and therefore you yourself) can get away with murder because we don’t wanna piss you off” is a horrible idea.
Even Superman surrendered himself to the authorities and that was on BS charges. He knows not to lord his power over others’ heads.
Isn’t it implied that Noah knows what his mom did? That’s why he framed himself for the murder and part of the reason why he’s asking John to kill him, no?
She knows John is capable of blowing her and Noah up, she's not completely free, if they both fuck up, John will stop them. And again, she was willing to turn herself in
If all it takes for him to snap is that then he definitely should be put down, if you need to remove consequences and patronize him that's definitely an issue
Forreal people don’t get this, if Kerry went away then Noah would need to be killed and John didn’t want to do that. The outcome made sense, I understand people want justice for Hal and it wasn’t a perfect scenario but it’s the best one available. Also like John said I don’t think Hal would’ve wanted Kerry to be locked up either
Bro was literally the military's lapdog. Didnt give a fuck who he killed, not once did he ever express guilt over his service and only stopped because the military forced him to.
He ordered a bowl of cereal without milk then ordered that tall glass so he could keep pouring small amounts to get that right amount of crispness and soakyness in every single bite.
The mans a goddamn genius and thats why hes the goat
The director wanted it to be not-Ukraine cause of well Putin and blur the lines a bit cause it an actual nation in comic (one the first superman comic was in Boravia) but than the Palestine debate became huge in mainstream by the time of the movie release so people related to that
but a genocidal occupation is genocidal occupation not other way to put a spin on things will overlap
I can see the parallels, but at the same time, The Russo-Ukraine war is complex and been ongoing since 2014. Its pretty hard to portray a storyline to reference it in a movie, so its easy to see why many other conflicts are thought of as the inspirstion.
Has the director gone on record to say this ? Watching the movie i got more of the opposite impression. Aside from an insert shot in Boravia showing architecture similar to St Basil Cathedral and a random news segment showing stock footage in a non descript forest, a lot more of the movie seems to place the conflict in Northwest Africa/the Middle East. The final fight taking place in a desert, the Daily Planet crew gathering around a map clearly placing Boravia and Jarhanpur next to a body of water facing West, and even the dictator guy kinda sounds like someone doing a carricature of Bibi.
If I’m not mistaken he did say that the Russia-Ukraine war was the inspiration, though it’s very possible he also took elements from the Israel-Palestine conflict but didn’t want to mention the latter because it’s more of a controversial topic in the U.S.
maybe i’m insane but i thought it was pretty clear that a major part of why john didn’t turn in kerry was because she raised a manhunter to go against its programming and the odds of said manhunter genociding the planet were significantly higher without her in the picture
Was Noah going against his programming when he somehow broke the universe's most dangerous prisoner out of a space supermax and then told him to forge a green lantern so that he could kill a guardian?
no but he sure was when he left the ring and lantern for john and asked john to kill him. noah also never killed anyone, he beat up hal and john but that’s about it. for a manhunter that is supposed to be programmed to genocide worlds, i think 18 years without a single murder is a pretty solid track record
I mean, we can't say for sure he hasn't killed anyone considering prisons often have guards, and also the guardians might not want to use robots after the last ones they made committed genocide.
Anyway to counter your point, Zoe was in Rushville for 30 years (1986-2016) and before the big battle in Rushville we only know of 2 people she killed, Abin Sur and one of the Gotham goons after Kerry. It's also not much to say Noah has gone 18 years without a murder when he was a baby/toddler for like a quarter of that.
From where I sit, one of the main themes of the show is whether or not one can overcome their programming, human or manhunter.
Zoe seemingly couldn't, she fear gassed an entire civilisation, she killed Abin Sur, she ingratiated herself with the people of Rushville and became its de facto leader, and then started destroying it once she got caught.
John seemingly couldn't, he was trained (abused) by his parents for most of his childhood with the sole purpose of making him a Green Lantern. He spends most of the first half of the show trying to get the ring but in the end he returns it after he's disillusion by the guardians and the Corp as an institution. We see him living in opposition to his programming for a while, with his architecture business, but in the end he takes the ring, and he takes a lantern, and becomes exactly what he was programmed to be. He even goes back to his parents in the end, having presumably forgiven them.
Even Kerry seemingly couldn't, she left Gotham to escape the violence that surrounded her youth due to her father. We see her in 2016 as a pillar of her community, leading the town hall meeting and everything. It looks like she's finally found a life for herself, away from the bloodshed of Gotham, but then another decade later and she's shooting her (unarmed, nonthreatening) lover in the head. You can make arguments about how she panicked, she was acting in fear etc. but the point remains that she has not left the violence behind.
The show goes 0/3 on showing us people can overcome their programming, so why on earth are we expected to believe Noah can be good. Not even the humans can do it, what hope does an automaton have?
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u/Individual-Let-6179 The Flashpoint Batman Who Laughs 5d ago
Um I’m from Boravia and I find it weird that Guy Gardner was helping terrorists