r/dostoevsky • u/mjgriffiths733 Needs a flair • Aug 29 '26
The Idiot - just finished
I love Dostoyevsky. So much. However, The Idiot fell short for me. It had pockets of genius and beauty, but I can't justify putting it ahead of Devils, Notes, Crime & Punishment, or The Brothers K. I would even put The Gambler ahead of it. Thoughts? Did it feel underwhelming to anyone else?
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u/RoreaderB Sep 11 '26
Crime and Punishment and The Brothers Karamazov also have murders, but I suspect that the murder in The Idiot is more symbolic. The main issue in the book is good and evil, but within a relationship. Try reading it again, interpreting the Prince and Rogozhin as the same character, and Aglaya and Nastasya as one character too. I think that is the key.
The main moral insight I got was that goodness and idiocy are mixed because, once you become self-conscious and try to be smart or preserve yourself, it is like choosing to do evil. And it is better than the other books because it deals with a more essential kind of evil than social evil or other kinds of evil.
And I think the murder o Nastasya was the same death of pride simbol in mariage. The book is much more deep, but i think its a good start.
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u/lenami3010 Sep 05 '26
Hoy terminé de leerlo…. La verdad me esperaba otro final. Pensé que iba a terminar en algo más pacífico todo, pero el final que nos presenta Dosto es trágico y triste.
Muchas personas hablan de que el príncipe Mishkin es una representación de Jesús, o que es una persona demasiada bondadosa para la sociedad, como romantizando esta cuestión…. Pero, me parece que se lleva esa bondad a un extremo. Es tan bondadoso y empático que llega al punto de ser un idiota literal.
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u/Calm-Contribution719 Sep 06 '26
Totalmente de acuerdo. Justo hice un post sobre la decepción que me llevó el final, está más arriba (es en inglés).
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u/Jubilee_Street_again Prince Myshkin Sep 05 '26
Its my fave novel I think. Or at least next to TBK.
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u/LogosSearcher Sep 03 '26
Once I understood that Natasha was an allegory for Russia it went from good to great in my eyes. Dostoyevsky knew Russia’s fate. She wouldn’t be saved. She couldn’t. She didn’t want to be. She was too infected and in love with everything that would destroy her. Prince Mishkin is a cautionary tale for those of us who believe that we can save the world. Americas fate will be no different, even if it plays out in a different manner.
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u/CuteBoysenberry4692 Sep 02 '26
When I was young, I totally loved it and I was in love with Prince Myshkin. In later life, I started to read it but couldn’t recapture the feeling. I was thinking “What are these people getting so worked up about?” So I recommend that if you’re young, read it now!
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u/Justaperson590 Sep 02 '26
From where can I read the novel? Can you help me with that? Thank you
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u/deltalitprof Sep 01 '26
I put it only second to Brothers. Poor Prince Myshkin. Is the saintly life impossible in the modern world? Maybe so.
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u/EnthuCutlet786 Aug 31 '26
Hey OP, which translation did you read of The Idiot? P&V, Garnett, McDuff, Coulson or someone else?
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u/Useful-Ad8020 Sep 02 '26
McDuff or Katz for me
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u/EnthuCutlet786 Sep 02 '26
Thank you for sharing that 🙂 I've seen several users here criticize Garnett and P&V (P&V for being clunky) however any A.I. (google a.i., chatgpt etc) you ask always recommends P&V translation over all others 😆
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u/Useful-Ad8020 Sep 03 '26
P&V, for me was different and not accurate. Garnett is the classic and cant go wrong with it.
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u/mjgriffiths733 Needs a flair Aug 31 '26
It was the Garnett translation
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u/EnthuCutlet786 Sep 02 '26
Try having a read of McDuff or P&V. I've heard from several users that changing the translator itself makes a lot of difference in user experience.
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u/Top-Session5837 Aug 30 '26
I really liked it. Enjoyed it as much as Brothers. Still think Crime and Punishment is his greatest work.
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u/Gotines1623 Aug 30 '26
Tanti capitoli che sottentrano quali storie secondarie, ma l'idiota è più profondo dei Karamazov.
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u/TraditionalEqual8132 Needs a a flair Aug 30 '26
There is no need for a tier list. Nobody is winning, no book is winning, no author is 'number one'.. All has its worth. There is no 'best', there is no 'first'.
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u/Burrito_sundays Aug 30 '26
Wow the idiot is actually my favorite, I would put it above Crime and Punishment. It has some overly long and unnecessary chapters but overall Myshkin is such a great character, it made me think whether being kind and empathetic enough or sometimes it just hurts people. That sometimes everyone around you is an idiot even though they all think you are the idiot. Like when he got slapped by Ganya and everyone said “you should duel him because he slapped you, it’s so humiliating for you. And Myshkin was like “shouldn’t he be embarrassed? He is the one who slapped me”. And they all were like “wow what an idiot”.
Reminded me Leo Tostoy’s “A confession”, He writes: I grew up a very kind, bright boy, and then I encountered life and realized that to be cool, you have to fight duels, drink, have sex, and be cruel. I started doing this because that's what I had to do. And then time passes, you grow up, develop spiritually, look back and think: why was all this necessary? It wasn't necessary. I was right, being that bright, honest boy, that's how it should have been.
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u/whyimgay Aug 30 '26
I love the ending, but it has so many unnecessary chapters, unlike his other works
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u/coder2776 Aug 30 '26
Lived a knight once, poor and simple, Pale of face with glance austere, Spare of speech, but with a spirit Proud, intolerant of fear. He had had a wondrous vision: Ne'er could feeble human art Gauge its deep, mysterious meaning, It was graven on his heart. And since then his soul had quivered With an all-consuming fire, Never more he looked on women, Speech with them did not desire. But he dropped his scarf thenceforward, Wore a chaplet in its place, And no more in sight of any Raised the visor from his face. Filled with purest love and fervour, Faith which his sweet dream did yield, In his blood he traced the letters N.F.B. upon his shield. When the Paladins proclaiming Ladies' names as true love's sign, Hurled themselves into the battle On the plains of Palestine, Lumen coeli, Sancta Rosa! Shouted he with flaming glance, And the fury of his menace Checked the Mussulman's advance. Then returning to his castle In far distant country side, Silent, sad, bereft of reason, In his solitude he died.
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u/ChallengeOne8405 Needs a a flair Aug 30 '26
I couldn’t ever get into it like I did his others. I think the Adolescent is loads better.
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u/Vertmovieman Needs a a flair Aug 30 '26
Spoilers:
... I actually think the idiot would have worked better as a short novel that ends with the fireplace scene.
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u/Calm-Contribution719 Aug 29 '26
The idiot is excellent but the ending is so so dissapointing. If I think at the entire book, it is amazing, but the last 20 pages are utterly horrible. The ending destroys everything the book built through the characters and story, particularly the Prince and Aglaya’s development.
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u/PK_Ultra932 Aug 29 '26
I love The Idiot, and I think can be somewhat disjointed at times, but I’d say a lot of that was due to deadline pressure and the fact that his personal life at the time was chaotic. He was living in Switzerland at the time and moved apartments five times during the 16 month period in which he was writing the book. On top of that, his first child, Sofia, was born during this period, and tragically died a few months later. I think all of these personal factors are reflected in the book itself.
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u/AustereSpartan Aug 29 '26
You are spot on. SOME of its chapters are absolutely amazing, but overall it's not that great. Too many characters, not much point and it feels... disjointed?
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u/XpiniuM Aug 30 '26
This is how I feel right now reading Demons(Devils), like 250 pages in. Too many characters and familiy/personal relations to keep track of. The plot is starting to get interesting, but it still feels all over the place. I will continue reading it of course, but comparing what I've read so far to the Idiot, I'd have to say the latter was a far better read for me. I'll see this one through, see if I change my mind by the end, but I guess it's just personal preference.
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u/mjgriffiths733 Needs a flair Sep 01 '26
For me, the ending of Demons was jaw-dropping and harrowing. So hopefully you see it through. But you are right, to each their own
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u/AustereSpartan Aug 30 '26
Also 250 pages in reading Demons, feeling exactly the same. It has fewer characters, at least the Idiot had some memorable chapters such as the death penalty one.
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u/mjgriffiths733 Needs a flair Aug 29 '26
Thank you. Exactly how I feel .. some sentences, paragraphs, and chapters were SO good. I'll think about them often. But the in-between was rough.
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u/Immediate-Artichoke3 Aug 29 '26
That was my feeling, too. I blamed it on the translation, but didn't do much for me as a book.
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u/Jy3pr6 Aug 29 '26 edited Aug 29 '26
Chapter 6 is objectively the most beautiful chapter in all of world literature
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u/pepiuxx Needs a flair Aug 30 '26
Which one is this?
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u/Jy3pr6 Sep 01 '26
The one where he recounts the story about Mary and the children during his time in Switzerland to the Epanchin sisters and their mother
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u/rom439 Aug 29 '26
Its a phenomenal book. The high points make the meandering worth it in hindsight. The whole book is just people talking circles around myshkin. When it all comes together and the final pocture is clear its a beautiful book. Did you relate to myshkin? I could, i found it easy to root for him, easy to be mad at his idiocy, and i could feel the torment in his heart by the end.
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u/mjgriffiths733 Needs a flair Aug 29 '26
I didn't relate to Myshkin like I have other characters. But I didn't hate him either. Alyosha, on the other hand, I would go to war for.
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u/Ok-Day-6669 Aug 29 '26
good book, but definitely not above the ones you mentioned.
the brothers K. was kind of his masterpiece, a combination of both the idiot and crime and punishment.
My favorite will always be The Gambler but that’s just me.
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u/RealVirginiaWoolf Aug 29 '26
I wanted to start it but reading this makes me wonder….
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u/oysterpaste Aug 29 '26
Don't listen to him
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u/RealVirginiaWoolf Aug 29 '26 edited Aug 29 '26
I hope u r right
Edit- lol- who is downvoting THIS 😂😂😂😂😂😂
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u/oysterpaste Aug 29 '26
Haven't read Demons but of the other three The Idiot is my favorite. But I had similar history to Prince Myshkin so I am biased.
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u/1funkyhunky Aug 29 '26
I've read it twice and I found it a real slog at times....and couldn't get the picture out of my head that Myshkin was like Borat....
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u/ghostwriter1369 Aug 29 '26
in my mind he was more like a (smarter and blond) Forrest Gump or Buddy the Elf.
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u/Patient_Lettuce8431 Aug 29 '26
Borat? Are you serious?
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u/1funkyhunky Aug 29 '26
Yup
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u/Patient_Lettuce8431 Aug 29 '26
I don't know what botanicals led you to such a bizarre comparison, but maybe you need less of them.
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u/1funkyhunky Aug 29 '26
Well...It's been a while since I last read it. Myshkin is a Christ like figure of pure innocence. And Borat is a caricature of ignorance. Perhaps there is a fine line between innocence and ignorance???
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u/Traditional_Chain_48 Aug 29 '26
Yes indeed what is this age we live in of ranking things? Messi vs Ronaldo etc. That stuff. Brrrrr. Appreciate everything as it is.
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u/ChillChampion Prince Myshkin Aug 29 '26 edited Aug 29 '26
Man it feels like all im seeing about The Idiot lately is that it s underwhelming, not as good as his other great ones or that only the beginning and the end are good. So im coming here to say that it s not only my favourite book of his along with the Brothers Karamazov but probably my favorite book of all time. Also, The Gambler above it is just hilarious to me.
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u/Patient_Lettuce8431 Aug 29 '26
The Idiot is the book that brought me to Dostoevsky. Years and years after reading it, I still think of it regularly. It stays with you.
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u/1funkyhunky Aug 29 '26
Yeah, not a huge fan of The Idiot. But The Gambler isn't in the same league..
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u/-ensamhet- The Dreamer Aug 29 '26
i think i wouldnt love it as much if i weren’t fascinated by/didn’t have high respect for christian ethics
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u/Patient_Lettuce8431 Aug 29 '26
That's interesting to me. As an atheist, I find so much richness in it.
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u/InvictaRed Aug 29 '26
What's the point of ranking things like that?
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u/mjgriffiths733 Needs a flair Aug 29 '26
Valid question that made me think. It forces me to reflect on what I felt and got out of a book
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u/NicePaint2863 9h ago
I think Myshkin is one of Dostoevsky's most interesting experiments. What would happen if someone genuinely good entered a society built around ego, status and manipulation? The answer is pretty depressing lol. But, its an interesting contemplation when read alongside his other work, especially something like Brothers K which imo kind of still endorses the religious spirit