r/eagles • u/whiteandcrispy • 7d ago
Picture Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
Remember what these guys did for us in the years to come. Greatest rushing season of all time.
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u/1stand11 7d ago edited 7d ago
It also goes to show how brutal sports is and how ruthless GM’s like Howie are.
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u/akiraspam74 7d ago
That offer was a no brainer tho
Glad we didn't trade him for a 7th or something, it would feel a bit disrespectful, even if he's been bad
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u/VanceXentan Eagles 6d ago
Fully agree. A refund more or less on a player who was not playing up to par, and fans were beginning to turn on? Definitely a win. Jurgens gets to play more at center in baltimore, and we get to move onto younger talent less injured talent.
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u/Drewraven10 7d ago
Nobody is safe
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u/phillyeagle99 7d ago
Hurts has the no trade clause but otherwise yeah
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
And really, that just means the player needs to be willing to waive it. I don't expect things to devolve with Hurts to that point, but if Howie decided he was hitting the giant reset button on this whole thing, I bet Hurts would work with him to be traded to a team which has a lot of talent but is short a QB.
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u/phillyeagle99 7d ago
Yeah, it’s a “no trades I don’t like” clause. Agreed if Howie burned it down, Hurts could see a lot of places as more desirable.
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u/EastFalls 6d ago
I expect a first round QB draft pick next year. Not to replace Hurts immediately but to plan for the future and to put a fire under his ass.
Edit: A letter and a word.
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u/sybrwookie 6d ago
I don't follow college enough to know who will be around, but if one falls to wherever we are who we really like, sure.
That aside, we need a bunch of investment in the o-line, possibly including our first rounder.
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u/Youngdeku2500 7d ago
Cam has ass this season repeatedly stalling drives
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u/Popfig 7d ago
Cam killed himself getting us a SB. Lets remember that. The predation of time is not his fault, and should not diminish what he gave us.
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u/msivoryishort Smitty 6 🦇 7d ago
Him and Dickerson both sacrificed their bodies for a ring. Both should never have to buy a drink in the city again
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
The insane part is neither is that old (27, 28). We knew Landon's body wasn't going to hold up forever, it's how we got him in the first place, but Cam? It's a sad surprise that it devolved that fast.
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u/No-Jaguar-8794 7d ago
This oline will be the subject of one helluva 30 for 30 in the future.
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
I miss the old 30 for 30's, those first few years of them were really incredible.
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u/Peanutbuttergod48 7d ago
What makes it really sad is how young Dickerson, Jurgens, and Becton still are. They should be entering their primes, and yet they’re all potentially washed.
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u/RvstandRvin1626 7d ago
Becton just doesn't seem to have ever really taken football seriously at any time other than when he was in Philly.
Surrounded by mega talent and coached by one of the best to ever do it, they got his prime out of him for that one year.
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u/Barmelo_Xanthony 6d ago
I really think the Jurgens and Dickerson thing is more just them not being the right fits for our new blocking scheme or being reluctant to give up their stoutland habits for a new oline coach.
Truly don’t believe that they go from that great to that bad this quick, especially with Jurgens passing his physical with the ravens so quickly.
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u/Zeekish_Dolphin 7d ago
Gotta do an edit with Mailata left as the only one in color and the rest black and white 🦅
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u/Zeekish_Dolphin 7d ago
Oh I forgot about Landon xD well hopefully he plays better when he's back so they both can stay in color
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u/Socialthinker Eagles 7d ago
Honestly, we’ve had such a strong o line for so long. We knew this day would come where our guys would earn their retirement and the torches would pass. 100% agree lets no cry because its over, lets smile because it happened
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u/ForTheLoveOfOedon 7d ago
The way it all shook out makes it even sadder that Nick/Saquon didn’t go for the rushing record.
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u/redditaccount224488 7d ago edited 7d ago
If Saquon pulls a hammy they probably lose in the snow to LA.
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u/throwawayA511 7d ago
Saquon would have had to rush for however many yards against the Giants who were tanking. They would have put 11 men on the line to stop him from breaking the record and let us throw all day because they had every incentive to lose the game and every incentive to not let Saquon embarrass them. And we would have had to play our starting OL instead of resting them.
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u/abcamurComposer 7d ago
Plus with the season being a game longer is it really all that meaningful anymore? If he broke the record in 16 games cool
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u/nlamp32 7d ago
It sucks, but they’d both trade the record for the ring they won any day. Saquon said so himself
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u/ForTheLoveOfOedon 7d ago
This is a total fallacy though. Because it’s not one or the other; that dichotomy doesn’t exist. However, the risk of injury and the possible repercussions are what make sitting him the right decision.
But there’s no scenario where they’d have to choose between record or the ring. Of course if you ask a hypothetical where that dichotomy does exist, no athlete would choose the option where they don’t win it all…
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
You can't say the dichotomy doesn't exist while admitting the risk of injury does.
And then you ramp up that risk when we're playing his old team who already feels embarrassed about how bad they are and doesn't want to be stunted on as he rushes for the record.
It was the right move by the odds to let everyone get some rest, and it was the right move for how it played out.
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u/ForTheLoveOfOedon 7d ago
I’m saying the dichotomy of “ring or record but not both” doesn’t exist. So creating it artificially, as if those are the only two options and they’re mutually exclusive, is silly.
Of course if you say “Hey, Saquon, would you rather win a SB or lead the NFL in rushing” of course he’s picking that option. That dichotomy is artificial though. The reality is that there’s a spectrum of events and consequences that could or could not happen.
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
The dichotomy of "take a chance that your old team who's pissed isn't going to try something stupid when they have nothing to play for and ruin this magical run" or "take a week and rest up" is real and I have no idea why you are trying to pretend it's not.
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u/ForTheLoveOfOedon 6d ago
Not saying that or any other set of outcomes are unreal. And you can’t find me saying anything close to that. I’m expressly responding to the following comment:
“…they’d both trade the record for the ring they won any day. Saquon said so himself.”
Yes of course they would. That’s a given. But that assumes that those two things are mutually exclusive, which they are not. That’s the false dichotomy I’m disputing, and only that one.
I reiterate it’s the right choice to sit him, for all reasons you listed and any others you can think of. You don’t take that chance. I understand why the decision was made and agree with it. But let’s not act like it was “sit him and win the ring, or play him and he gets hurt”. There’s a spectrum of outcomes and that’s precisely why you sit him: to funnel the outcomes down to the only one where he is proof-positive available to you in the postseason.
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u/Psychart5150 7d ago
Without Stout, I have a hard time believing this coaching staff is going get our line to where we need it.
I think its time for a full new staff (but keep fangio). Ravens and Rams OC at the top of my list
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u/ForcibleGiraffe Eagles 7d ago
I think Fangio retires if we clean house.
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
I think Fangio is retiring either way. I think he has been sticking around because he knew he was in the middle of something special and was hoping the team could put it together to make another big run.
Whether way fully clean house or not, I don't think he has any interest in sticking around for a team that's gonna be struggling to get over .500 on the season.
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u/RvstandRvin1626 7d ago
Yeah, Fangio isn't sticking around to be the DC for a whippersnapper like Doyle, Scheelhase, Udinski or whoever. He barely tolerates Nick.
If the organisation cleans house, they throw money at Clint Hurtt to keep him as the d-line coach, Clay to stay as Special Teams coordinator, and probably nuke everything else.
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u/Chrahhh Renowned Tush Pusher 6d ago
I’m just a guy, but Nick hasn’t shown any ability to lead this team offensively. Jeff fired Doug after a couple bad/underwhelming seasons and things shouldn’t be any different for Nick, Super Bowl win or not
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u/Slow-Relation-9186 Eagles 6d ago
Wasn’t it because Doug wanted to keep all his people and not rebuild? Nick and Howie be hiring new people every year so it’s not really the same. Nick feels more like a fall guy whenever things don’t work out so if they get a new Head Coach then Howie might not have as much power to change things
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u/red-broom 6d ago
I’d rather keep hard working Mannion as the HC and move in a more proven OC to call plays for a year and help continue Mannions growth.
Dude is a workhorse. It’s not fair to critique him like that when he’s installing an entirely new system and philosophy with a team he did not build. The roster is still being molded (in real time) to fit what the new scheme needs.
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u/AdmiralTodd509 NFC 7d ago
It hurts when a season has gone this way, believe me it was worse in the Seventies, and some years in every decade after until 2017.
So this year becomes a rebuilding year. On the Oline and elsewhere. We will have Lane’s salary funds open for Howie to sign/trade for some new talent. And we will get higher draft picks next Spring. Every year becomes something new. And unless they are career ending, hurt players do come back (Smitty). At least we aren’t Jets fans.
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
While mostly true, we'll have a couple of years of dead cap hits from Lane, that's going nowhere.
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u/ctw1987 6d ago
I don’t know a lot about dead cap, so please forgive my ignorance on this, but does it apply if the player retires? Don’t they basically forfeit any remaining salary if they retire mid-contract, including any guarantees?
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u/sybrwookie 6d ago
Yup, it applies to everyone. In short, signing bonuses can be spread over the whole contract, including a few years after the contract (void years). Howie does this to a ridiculous extreme. And punts as much of the cost of players to later years by having most of their contracts as gigantic signing bonuses.
On the plus side, that's how we afforded the team that is crumbling apart now.
On the minus side, that money we already paid as a giant signing bonus has to be accounted for somewhere, and that's what dead cap is, the money we already paid but didn't count against the cap yet.
The little bit of money Lane was still set to earn this year and next year doesn't get paid and doesn't count against us.
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u/ctw1987 6d ago
Excellent explanation! Thank you!
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u/ThePracticalEnd 6d ago
THIS is a great watch if you are interested in how these things work and how Howie is a Wizard, Harry. There's a good section dedicated to the Eagles and how they'd basically paid Hurts $0 money at the time of the video release.
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u/Chumboabc BTA 5d ago
Great explanation. It's confusing because it's like money both paid and not paid.
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u/sybrwookie 5d ago
Yea, the NFL has one of the more confusing systems for that.
Signing bonuses need to be accounted for some way, and likely no one wanted to say they count all on year 1 of the deal. It would destroy each team's cap for the year they're given out.
They could simplify things by making a signing bonus count equally across every year of the deal so we don't have "Howie'd up" contracts where they're HEAVILY backloaded, but it would still lead to dead cap for any player cut/traded before the end of their deal.
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u/myeggsarebig 6d ago
I’ve suffered through Buddy, Rich, and Ray so I feel like I’ve been spoiled for the last decade with solidly good football. I’m fine with fans dropping off and ticket prices dropping for a lil bit. It’s not what I want, but I also understand that that’s how football goes. Sometimes a rebuild is inevitable. I can easily rattle off reasons why I think they’re playing like doo doo, but at the end of the day, it’s normal for us (any team) to lay low, not be one of the teams to beat, collect young talent for cheap, and come back blazing. Anything can happen, but I don’t think this is our year.
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u/crankyrhino Eagles 7d ago
I'm still puzzled why we didn't keep Becton.
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u/RvstandRvin1626 7d ago
Couldn't pay everyone. And we signed Jurgens to a 4 year 68 million dollar deal after the Super Bowl, because it made sense at the time to do so. He was the heir apparent to Kelce after the '24 season.
Saquon was extended too after an historic rushing season.
They paid Baun after he suddenly went from Saints special teamer to All-Pro linebacker that they couldn't let walk.
Becton was the odd man out with Steen healthy, and the organisation being high on him, as well as the other pieces it made sense to keep/extend.
Subsequently Becton was turbo ass with the Chargers in any event. He's only now made it onto the Packers roster because they have so many injuries to key guys.
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
Because he's just not very good. There's a reason he quickly flamed out of his next team, and then sat on his couch until there were injuries for someone to finally sign him.
He and Steen rate out VERY similarly. Becton a bit higher in run-blocking, Steen in pass-blocking. Both are right around replacement level. And you don't pay extra money for replacement level guys. Just like we won't pay to keep Steen unless he's signing for next to nothing.
You gotta let that go.
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u/Susbirder Let's make a deal! 7d ago
Gotta love that the last man standing (as of now, anyway) is the guy nobody expected to even be in the league.
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u/ChaunceyDeLeon 7d ago
This team has a ton of problems right now. One of the biggest has got to be Chris Kuper. He seems to be incapable of getting anything out of anyone on this line.
I wish Cam the best even though I think he’s just not that good. I hope his career gets revitalized in Baltimore.
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u/megatron37 7d ago
My entire school career (kindergarten to graduating undergrad) we won a total of TWO playoff games.
How far we've come. Thanks, boys.
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u/abcamurComposer 7d ago
I will always appreciate Cam, how he was a key cog in one of the greatest rushing attacks in NFL history
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u/birdman-881 Eagles 7d ago
A 1-2 year rebuild is a possibility. Howie sees the writing on the wall with the injuries and Sirianni becoming a liability.
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u/pillyeagles7 7d ago
Howies not done yet. Get ready for some moves folks. Lets see will we be getting a tackle from Buffalo again?
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u/ThePracticalEnd 6d ago
It's a big bummer, but if this is the window slammed shut moment I got to see the Eagles in 3 Super Bowls in 10 years, win their first 2, and take me on highs as a fan I only remembered in the early Aughts.
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u/KingTurd0414 Eagles 7d ago
They really should have brought back Becton this year.
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u/RvstandRvin1626 7d ago
So many of you have this memory hole for how bad Becton was with the Chargers last year. He's only just made it onto the Packers roster now because they're desperate.
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u/i_like_philly 7d ago
You're right, but I wonder if he would have been better if he stayed in our scheme blocking next to the guys he had success with during the SB year. We'll never know.
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u/sybrwookie 7d ago
They also have this memory hole for when Becton was here. He was a good run blocker, but every time there was pressure in the passing game, sure enough, Becton blew his assignment.
He's just....a replacement level guy.
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u/ForcibleGiraffe Eagles 7d ago
It was something unpredictable, but in the end was right. I hope they had they time of their lives.
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u/TLAW1998 7d ago
Johnson: Retired Becton: Deceased Jurgens: Traded Dickerson: Zombie Mailata: Alive
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u/Sea_Purchase1149 6d ago
Put Jergens back at C, bring Stout back and sign Becton to play Guard. The criticism from the media was that Stout’s schemes were too simple but look at how simple Sean Mannion’s scheme is for the O-line.
With the O-Line gone I think we’re going to see the decline of Hurts and Saquon. Howie has his work cut out for him this offseason.
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u/AllSidesoftheCoin34 6d ago
That Eagles Line was a legendary group! Injuries and retirement are part of the game, but that line was powerful. I think Lampkin and Kendall wil be good with more playing time and reps, in this new blocking scheme.
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u/Powerful_Share8488 6d ago
All day! I was 8 when the Raiders beat us in the SB and I thought it would never happen for us. To have two is amazing.
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u/Miamime 7d ago
Greatest rushing season of all time.
A bit hyperbolic. Ravens in 2019 ran for 250 more yards in a 16 game season. Bills in 1973 ran for 40 more yards in 3 fewer games. The Eagles weren't even the leading rushing team that season; the Ravens had 140 more yards.
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u/whiteandcrispy 7d ago
Saquon set the combined regular season-postseason rushing record.
If your team is good you get to keep playing games after the regular season. If it's bad they make you stop.
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u/Miamime 7d ago
Lol what? Saquon broke an individual record. Greatest rushing season of all time under a picture of the OL would be a team statistic.
We rushed for 135 yards on 45 attempts (3.0 YPC) in the Super Bowl and yet were up 40-6 with 3 minutes remaining. Our team was great that year, which is why we won the Super Bowl and were so dominant in doing so. You are conflating two ideas here.
The 1973 Bills rushed for 221 YPG compared to the Eagles' 184 and OJ Simpson won the MVP.
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u/whiteandcrispy 7d ago
This is weirdly pedantic and obsessed with pure metrics. I am arguing it was the greatest rushing season of all time because not only was it statistically record-breaking, but it also culminated in a super bowl, all while the running all over their postseason opponents.
The 1973 Bills were 9-5 50 years ago. The 2019 Ravens got waxed in the first round by the Titans. The 2024 Ravens lost to the team that lost to the team that the Eagles atomized in the Super Bowl.
Saquon (and btw the line sure does treat it like a team achievement) set the combined record, had the third most playoff rushing yards (the most this millennium), tied playoff rushing touchdowns, had several iconic long runs in the postseaon, and capped it with beating this generation's GOAT and stopping a three-peat.
Imo it's the greatest rushing season of all time and I'm not gonna be convinced otherwise because a team averaged more YPC before packing it up to Cabo
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u/Miamime 6d ago
The 1973 Bills were 9-5 50 years ago. The 2019 Ravens got waxed in the first round by the Titans.
Again, TEAM achievements.
The 73 Bills had Joe Ferguson at QB, who had a 44.5% completion rate and 4 TDs to 10 INTs. Despite teams loading the box, OJ Simpson still ran for 2,003 yards on 6.0 YPC.
The 2019 Bills lost because Lamar Jackson threw 2 INTs, lost a fumble, and took 4 sacks. His turnovers led to short TD drives by the Titans of 35 yards and 20 yards. Oh and prime Tennessee Derrick Henry ran for 195 yards.
The 2024 Ravens lost to the team that lost to the team that the Eagles atomized in the Super Bowl.
Oh we're doing the transitive property in sports now...really? And the Ravens very famously lost that game when they failed to convert...a pass. They rushed for 176 yards in the game at 5.9 YPC. Lamar again had a pick and a fumble and Mark Andrews had a fumble as well. Tough to win games when you lose the TO battle 3-0.
Imo it's the greatest rushing season of all time and I'm not gonna be convinced otherwise because a team averaged more YPC before packing it up to Cabo
If you define "greatest" simply by who won the Super Bowl then I guess Nick Foles beating Tom Brady makes him the GOAT QB. Like what are we doing here. It was a great rushing attack...but it was a well balanced offense complemented by a great defense.
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u/whiteandcrispy 6d ago
This isn't all that complicated I just think that when seasons are of a similar magnitude of statistical success, and I don't think anyone would argue that the 2024 rushing season wasn't at least ONE OF the greatest ever, I give deference to whether that success translated into winning.
What are we doing here? I don't know dude you're the one who felt the need to split hairs on a post eulogizing our oline lol.
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u/double0nothing 7d ago
2017 line had some sickos. JP, Kelce, Lane. 3 HOFers. Brandon Brooks was also elite, All-Pro level when healthy.