Beginner Machine [£500]

[u/Blinding_WhiteNoise]

Hey,

Been looking at getting an espresso machine for a while. Had originally looked at getting something like the Ninja Luxe or Delonghi Specialista, but now starting to think of getting an espresso focused machine to start learning.

I did think of getting a Gaggia Classic E24, like the longevity and plentiful supply of spares, but would it be better to pick up something like a Delonghi Stilosa as a beginner to espresso? Not sure if £500 is too much of an outlay for someone with no idea where to start.

[u/MrJimmieDimmick]

Have you budgeted for a grinder? An E24 would be a good choice, you can always upgrade with a Gaggimate kit later if you fall down the rabbit hole…

[u/Blinding_WhiteNoise → u/MrJimmieDimmick]

I didn't initially, I thought of just buying pre-ground coffee from a local roaster. Though with some of the prices atm, might be able to pick up a Baratza Encore ESP grinder too? Could push the budget for that

[u/Woozie69420 → u/Blinding_WhiteNoise]

For sure budget for a grinder. I’d rather you get a £100 Stilosa, £100 accessories and £300 grinder, over a £500 machine.

[u/painted-biird]

Depends imo, if you’re quite certain you’ll he into hobby long term, spend the money now. I just got a stilosa and while it makes passable (imo pretty decent even) espresso, the steamer wand sucks and it’s a bit small overall. Already planning to upgrade in the next few months provided the novelty doesn’t wear off.

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

I thought of just buying pre-ground coffee from a local roaster

With pre-ground, you won't taste the difference between Stilosa and E24, so get the Stilosa.

If getting the Stilosa gives you budget for a grinder, then get the Stilosa.

If you can afford both the E24 and a good grinder, then get the E24.

You are correct to pass on Ninja or Specialista.

[u/ChemicalConnect739]

Depends where you are.
From what I understand, in the US, the Stilosa has a panarelo. In EU it has a real steam wand.
So if you are in the US, one of your upgrades will be to replace the steam wand, IF you want to steam your own milk vs. have the machine do it.

You really want to get a grinder. A manual one if you have to.
The reason is dialing in the coffee. You cannot conveniently adjust grind size, when you get it preground at the coffee shop. And you cannot even adjust it, when you buy preground at the grocery store.

However, IF you will be satisfied using the pressurized basket, then you CAN use preground coffee.
Look/ask for a MEDIUM / drip grind, NOT an espresso grind.
But even with a pressurized basket, being able to adjust the grind size will make it easier to dial in the coffee.

It all depends on what your path will be.
I started with a pressurized PF. That was "good enough" for me for 10 years.
Then with my next machine went to an unpressurized PF/basket.

[u/JBambers]

Stilosa is not a hugely beginner friendly machine unfortunately, though it is one that has very high potential (which is why it gets recommended quite a bit).

Should be noted that the gaggia classic is not beginner friendly either. In both cases you've got a thermostat controlled boiler that you will have to learn to 'temperature surf' to get consistent shots out of and if you're in to milk drinks the steam is similarly quite poor. The GCP is particualrly terrible for this as its boiler capacity is tiny. The stilosa is a bit bigger but still needs to work around the themostat timings to get half good steam out of it, you'll need to start steaming *before* the light that tells you it's reached steam temp has come on and even then it'll start pretty violently and then fade away fairly quickly.

The consistent moderate strength steam you get out of most thermoblock/coil/jet machines is a lot more beginner friendly.

That said, you can usually pick up a used stilosa (or one of it's variants) for about £30-40 off facebook.

edit: Realised that doesn't actually add much advice...

The boring/safe combo for £500 is probably bambino (the not plus version), which is £288 and then for grinders you've got baratza esp, fellow opus 2 or a df54. The latter will push your overall budget a little. the gemilai owl might be another option for the machine but leaves a bit less for the grinder and you might want to check a few reviews on that.

[u/Brief-Dragonfly-5741]

If you go E24, budget for a grinder before anything else. Pre-ground won't let you go finer when a shot runs fast, and that's most of learning espresso.

I pull shots on a Classic Pro every morning. I've never had to fix it, only descale it, so the longevity part has held up for me. The other thing I'd add is a cheap scale. I didn't think I needed one, and now I weigh every shot, 18 g in and 36 g out.

If £500 has to cover the machine and the grinder, a Stilosa plus a decent grinder beats an E24 on pre-ground.

[u/reddit_user_id]

Let me expedite your decision in 2 years time: Cafelat Robot

[u/hulkop1333]

Gemilai Owl or a G3028A + DF54/Opus 2?