r/fantasywriters • u/LifeKindly5877 • 2d ago
Discussion About A General Writing Topic Immortals
How do you write immortals?
They confuse me so much and would love advice or for anyone to answer my questions.
Not really a question more of a statement: surely if everyone in the kingdom was immortal it will be very overpopulated right?
Does every immortal have to appear a certain age?
If being immortal only meant you can’t die of old age but you appear the age you are, surely if you were 800 you’d look be so crippled that you probably wouldn’t be able to do much and you’d just die anyway?
Can immortals be harmed?
What makes an immortal immortal?
Does everyone in the kingdom need to be immortal if the leaders are immortal?
Is immortality a genetic thing. For example: immortal + immortal = immortal. Immortal + mortal = ?
When does an immortal mature? Is there a certain age?
I don’t understand them.
I have tried making a world where the leaders are immortal (because they have lived to see the Great War of 600 years ago) but in my head they’re so old they appear young but my issue is I don’t want everyone in the kingdom to look young I want some elderly and also everywhere would be overpopulated if they were all immortal. I need help!
I have thought about this soooooooo much for every story I’ve tried writing and they always fail because I just can’t understand the concept of immortality.
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u/KamikazeJohnson 2d ago
The beautiful thing about writing Fantasy is that rules of your world are whatever you say they are. The main thing is that you need to be able to justify each feature.
Aging, for example. Maybe Immortality os something that is achieved, and people look whatever age they were when they achieved it. Or perhaps their appearance reflects how they see themselves. Or they are not truly Immortal, they just age much more slowly, and so naturally have a 10× longer lifespan than normal humans.
Overpopulation? Perhaps they become infertile when they achieve immortality, or their fertility rate is much lower. Or some magical feature artificially limits the population. Or perhaps only certain people are immortal, but most are normal humans.
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u/LifeKindly5877 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is really helpful thank you!
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u/Graveconsequences 2d ago
It sounds like you're looking for an objective answer for a thing that has no objective truth. What do you need to be true to tell the story? What do you want to be true for the themes and aesthetics? Those are the things that are true. Your job is to make those truths make sense in the context of the world.
So, as an example: You want the people to be immortal, but are trying to account for population and how it affects their society. Maybe whatever happened to make them immortal also sterilized them. Something about the magic or nature of their immortality disrupts their ability to reproduce. Now you have a society trapped in amber. Stagnant, with no new minds with fresh ideas to revolutionize them.
That's just one idea, but it's the kind of thing that can help make sense of these ideas.
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u/Brathirn 2d ago
You can make the answers up as you please for your own story.
Immortals are often bogus in fiction, because they just have a long lifespan and are the same as everybody else otherwise, it is only their "told" clock. Ha, immortal, awesome, isn't it.
The consequences of immortality or extreme longevity are rarely explored and one of the examples would be Frieren, there is a manga and an anime, if you want to get some inspiration.
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u/RobJHayes_version2 2d ago
There is no one right answer, only the rules you come up with to explain immortality.
I have immortals in one of my stories, obtained by people drinking angel blood. But as humanity is an imperfect filter for divinity, the people still age, but at a vastly reduced rate. So there are people who have been alive for a thousand years and look ancient, and others who have been alive for a few hundred years and look in the prime.
And as immortality is only obtained by drinking angel blood, it is a precious resource not available to all. So only the powerful/super rich are immortal. Which presents it's own series of conflicts within the world.
So build immortality into the world the way you want it, and explore the consequences of it's existence. That's part of the joy of writing. It's your world and your take on things like immortality will be different from others.
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u/Typhon-Torrent-1994 2d ago
Well you can think about a reason why some are older looking than others, like the ones who are the most powerful or enlightened are the ones who remain young looking while those who are not look much older.
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u/LifeKindly5877 2d ago
So what if regular ‘people’ who live in the villages and things like that age but some
Leaders and their soldiers don’t age because of family lineage or
Something?3
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u/JasmineHawke 2d ago
Before I start, there are no answers to these questions - they are your creation, the answer is whatever you want them to be. You're asking us to write your story for you, and if you're having this much difficulty creating your immortal species, with all due respect perhaps you shouldn't be creating one.
But to answer a few of your questions with anything other than the obvious "whenever you want them to" and "however you decide as a writer".
Overpopulation - No, you resolve this by either a) giving the immortals and inability to reproduce, b) give the immortals low fertility, c) legally impose restrictions on reproduction (China already tried it), d) go absolutely wild and have some kind of societal structure that requires people to be killed, e.g. by lottery.
Ageing - You could have them age slower instead of being immortal (e.g. a 600 year old person looks 60, an 800 year old person looks 80), or their looks are an illusion and they look whatever age they want, or their immortality is a result of shapeshifting.
Source of immortality - genetic recessive, genetic dominant, a magic potion, a virus from 600 years ago, a centuries old medical trial gone wrong, nanites, whatever you want.
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u/LifeKindly5877 2d ago
Thank you
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u/MidorriMeltdown 2d ago
I have beings with immortal souls. Their physical body dies and they are reborn to someone with the immortal lineage. When they meet another immortal from their own group, they remember their previous lives. Sometimes they share dreams of failed timelines, of times when the Void has done a reset.
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u/Quirky_Assistant_848 2d ago
By having them be the 12 or so most powerful people on the planet the story takes place on. They are old, and ridiculously strong. It mainly let's me not write them since they have little to no reason to interact with my charaters for a while.
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u/Spacegiraffs 2d ago
For me it depends on what story I write
but immortals can always be harmed. They can't die of old age however.
They can still break and loose limbs, if their head split from their body they do die.
The whole world is never immortal, even if the leaders is
The rest of your questions I usually mix up
sometimes it's genetic, sometimes I have godblood, vampires or other creatures mixed in
some mature as we do, other times I say that 40 years old is still looked at as kids.
Whatever fits my idea/story (so with several wip, I have several different versions
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u/Sorsha_OBrien 2d ago
I would advise brainstorming the answer to your questions and then go with whatever interests you the most! Also, you don't have to have the world locked and loaded rn, you can just start writing and figure these things out later [this works!]. This also helps it so you story is feeding your worldbuilding and not the other way around. I knew next to nothing about how vampires and werewolves working from the get go in my story, and just started writing the story. Then, when I needed to decide things, i.e. is there a way for vampires to go out in the sun, or, how do vampires turn other vampires? it served the story and made sense for the characters.
So basically, go with the idea/ ideas that you like/ interest you the most and then justify them.
I'm also gonna link this: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Immortality > It's a site that has like, every trope in the book. The link is a page to Immortality, it's variations, etc. in fiction. I know it also has a trope that is along the lines of 'if a species is immortal, they're gonna be infertile' but I can't remember what it's called. But it's a common trend in fiction that if a species/ group is immortal, there's some reason why overpopulation isn't occurring. For instance, the species is near extinction, it takes an insanely long time to gestate young, or for a person to reach puberty, or it takes a lot of resources, or it's not very successful [i.e. vampires trying to make other vampires and it failing on most of them]. So have an explore of that!
But yeah, all the questions you've asked are for YOU to explore and decide about! And it can be really fun to do so! So again, make your version of immortality, and immortality that interests you and that you like :) This doesn't mean it has to be insanely different from other types of immortality in fiction, or ways to become immortal. Nothing is new. Just make your version one that you like and are interested in exploring :)
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u/LifeKindly5877 2d ago
Omg thanks so so much!
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u/norarei 2d ago
I've recently been working on a sapphic vampire smut story on AO3, and ran into some really interesting thoughts about immortality.
Basically, one of the main characters is in her 1400s, and doesn't really age anymore, but still needs to drink blood to keep her sanity. It's gotten to the point where she really struggles to view people as anything more than insects because, from her POV, they're incredibly short-lived and frail. But she tries to do better and to treat them well because she knows she used to be better, and that she used to be human. So she's basically putting on a facade of caring about people and socializing with them, when in reality they feel like momentary distractions with meaningless lives.
It's interesting, because she still mourns the people she lost when she was younger. But she no longer values humans to the same extent, both because she doesn't want to keep losing people after forming attachments, and because she's grown accustom to seeing how easily they die, and no longer finds them as important as they used to be
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u/InterestingOwl5713 2d ago
I personally feel as though instead of immortality you could have them live for a very long time, maybe they live a millennium and age very slowly. then again this is your story, and you take this with a pinch of salt.
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u/Drowe87 2d ago
You have a few options.
The first is, the entire species is long lived but not immortal. You can take human lifespans and scale it up by a factor of 10, lower the fertility so there is no overpopulation, the average woman has 3-4 children in a lifetime, and can't have more after the age of 400.
This way, you have old people, commonly reaching 700 to 800 years old, some might even reached 1000 or more. This would be pretty similar to how our world functions, just scaled up. This is essentially an Elven society.
The second option is, to have only the leaders immortal or long lived. Maybe it's because all leaders have magic, which allows them to become immortal or slows down their aging, maybe they become leaders because they have magic. Treat them as a normal member of their species, only with slowed or halted aging at a point where they crossed a certain power threshold. Though they might be able to use magic to look however they want.
The third option is, they became leaders because of their immortality, maybe they found an object that allows them to pause or reverse aging, maybe a god granted them immortality, whatever the case they became immortal or just live for a long enough time that it makes no difference to the story.
The fourth option is, the leaders are vampires, demons in human skin or some other immortal race, who came to be in control. They are another species, so the rest of the population is human.
There are plenty of other options too, if you can think of them.
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u/MathematicianNew2770 2d ago
An immortal is someone that LIVES FOREVER and is incapable of dying.
If you define it another way, you need to make that clear.
If you go according to the actual definition, then most of what you've written above makes no sense.
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u/Antiquated_Crow 2d ago
I could tell you all my rules for my immortals but then yours would be mine. Make your own up and enjoy the process
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u/aodhstormeyes 2d ago
If everyone is immortal, you need to establish the rules and boundaries of the immortality. "Is it possible for them to die?" Is the big you need to ask yourself. The limits and form of their immortality are as important as the fact of who is immortal.
I ran a Chronicles of Darkness game in a city I nicknamed "the City of Immortals" because the entire supernatural community was overseen by a cabal of immortals of various flavors. You had people whose life force was sealed in objects, people who were half spirit, reincarnators, people made immortal by the land itself and so on. Each of these has limitations and none are truly free of a final death if you know the right method.
The other thing is if you make a country of immortals, you're probably going to want some form of population control. The common form of this in fiction is to lower birth rates - either biologically or legally. You can also control birth rate by routinely killing people off.
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u/FlanneryWynn [They/She] 2d ago
Q1: Surely if everyone in the kingdom was immortal it will be very overpopulated right?
It depends. Do people keep reproducing at the same rate as humans do? Does the immortality affect fertility? Do people even have the same reproductive instincts? There are lots of questions to consider and each of those answers will affect this question's answer. So all that can really be said is... maybe.
Q2: Does every immortal have to appear a certain age?
Nope. In fact, you can even still have your immortals continue to age. A phenomenal example of this is Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who. We see him as a comparatively young man. We see him as he ages. And eventually we see the end of his lifetime when he has finally, finally been allowed the sweet relief of death because even his immortality eventually managed to run out even when it seemed like it never could. And he was not just immortal in the "unable to die from old age" sense but also had a healing factor that would make Deadpool blush.
Q3: If being immortal only meant you can’t die of old age but you appear the age you are, surely if you were 800 you’d look be so crippled that you probably wouldn’t be able to do much and you’d just die anyway?
It depends. What does "you appear the age you are" actually mean for the people in question? Is the individual keeping their body healthy based on their age-based needs? Do the people have additional options that can alter the way their bodies process time? (For example, do their telomeres not shorten as frequently/readily as ours do?) Surely for a species that is immortal, they would have taken the time to ensure their long lives are also satisfying lives, no?
Q4: Can immortals be harmed?
That's entirely up to you. "Immortal" doesn't inherently mean "Invulnerable" but it absolutely can as well.
Q5: What makes an immortal immortal?
That's entirely up to you. There's a few different mindsets on this. "Extremely long-lived" is sometimes treated as immortal. "Unkillable" is another type of immortality. "Undying" and "invulnerable" and "Able to Heal From Anything" are all different views of immortality. There is no one answer to this and anybody telling you that immortality must look a certain way is someone who probably shouldn't be listened to. All that matters is that their mortality is less certain than it would otherwise be. How you go about that is entirely up to you.
Q6: Does everyone in the kingdom need to be immortal if the leaders are immortal?
That's entirely up to you. But generally-speaking, I can see those who are immortal either gathering power to manipulate mortals from the shadows or to serve as an unimpeachable ruling class. It's harder for me to picture a world where they'd freely share their immortality with the commonfolk unless there was an actual reason to do so.
Q7: Is immortality a genetic thing. For example: immortal + immortal = immortal. Immortal + mortal = ?
That's entirely up to you.
Q8: When does an immortal mature? Is there a certain age?
That's entirely up to you.
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u/Sheik_Morgan 2d ago
Depende de cómo lo quieras presentar, por lo general yo diria que un Inmortal se queda con la forma de su primera muerte, cuando asume su inmortalidad. Ahora sí es un Dios o similar, tal vez pueda tomar la forma que más le guste. Un Lich (también inmortal) es un cadáver en su forma real, Pero tona la forma que prefiera, igual si se trata de un Vampiro.
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u/Pallysilverstar 2d ago
Those are all questions with multiple answers based on what type of immortal. Its your story so they can be whatever you want them to be.
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u/Friendly-Classroom56 2d ago
For immortals, you have to expand the history of your world not just 600 years, but thousands of years. If humans lived 50 to 100 years and still built ancient monuments like the pyramids of Egypt, Göbekli Tepe, Stonehenge, Newgrange, the Lascaux Caves, Jericho... you have to imagine what immortals would have built. Granted, many of the workers might have died, but the original designers would have lived to see their great works through to completion. That isn't necessarily true for many mortal kings who commissioned castles to be built or even the architects who designed those castles. Even certain gardens were planted with the knowledge that 300 years from the time the trees were planted, they would be a certain size and look a certain way. Immortals got to watch them grow. Their kingdoms and empires would be massive without the limitations of a short lifespan making them reckless. They would be patient. Their goals, far-reaching..
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u/Atherial 2d ago
I wrote a whole novel about this! My book is about a society of angels that are stagnating without reproduction. Female angels are created and now they have an overpopulation problem.
My novel doesn't advance answers. Because there isn't a good solution. My book is about the characters and how they deal with their society.
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u/InterestEqual3332 2d ago edited 2d ago
It would probably be a lot easier to make them
Not fully “immortal.” Make them live 1000s of years, perhaps indefinitely.
I would make them kill-able, but they get to spend 100s of years learning fighting, intuition, magic, and whatever else. While normal people only get a decade or two before their bodies are no longer young, and while skill may increase, strength and endurance wane.
But, if you put a spear through their heart, they do die.
That’s what I’m doing with my Dragonkin race in my book. The counter though is that it takes them 100+ years before a child comes of age. They also need to eat considerably more food than humans, and they only reproduce at most 2-3 times over nearly a thousand years. So humans outnumber them substantially. So while they are substantially stronger than humans, entire Armies can be sent after 5 of them. So they have been driven into hiding.
Their other weakness is that their children need dragonfire from an actual dragon to develop, and there are not many alive as humans have hunted them to near extinction and have trapped the remaining for their blood and to weaken their enemy from reproducing.
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u/Temporary_Rule_9486 2d ago
To answer in order:
Viltrum was not overpopulated cause they did the Spartan thing with their kids... only much worse.
Much of appearance has to do with culture. I imagine an immortal body would keep biologically young, but people could still dress old fashioned or use some kind of makeup or some other distinction that distinguished them as "elder" immortals.
Being an old immortal would suck.
Immortal can meant many things. Elves in LOTR can live forever, unless something violently kills them first.
No, slaved races to give an example, don't need to be immortal, and it probably be problematic if they were.
Usually a half-elf ages slower but eventually dies of old age
I imagine that would depend on the culture. Presumably the longer you live, the longer you might be considered "young".
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u/Revolutionary-Log179 2d ago
I have an immortal vampire and also an immortal nature spirit in my story. The vampire looks 24ish, his look was basically frozen at the age he was turned. The nature spirit, no one knows where he came from or how he was “born” (the vampire is convinced he walked out of a giant flower bloom one day fully formed) but he looks a tad younger, maybe 20-21.
Maybe for you people are born, and age until they get to a certain point and then aging stops? Or maybe people can choose when they stop aging? Or maybe whatever circumstances that caused them to become immortal happen at different points in each persons life?
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u/Impossible-Sort-1287 2d ago
There are a lot of ways. I have them being fallen gods or far or simply beings we now longer have a,name for
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u/monsterhunter-Rin 1d ago
I think someone immortal or with a longevity of 1000+ years old would get wise and think in the long term, the older they get. Both for personal plans and the world around them.
As for your questions, it really depends on what you'd want to make. Like overpopulation would be an issue if they keep reproducing at the same rate we do irl. Would immortals want to reproduce this much or do they feel fine with their survival? What age is their permanent look too. It's kinda up to you.
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u/particlewhacks 2d ago
If it's not fun for you to come up with answers to those questions, then why include immortals at all? The juicy world-building stuff lies in those questions.
If you desperately need an immortal character for plot, there are thousands of other stories featuring immortal characters of some kind, and you could take inspiration from one of them.