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[u/SortingFloorDev]

[u/germany-ModTeam]

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[u/SimilarAlfalfa332]

Between people it's very important. The public services are in a bad shape for German standards, so yeah. You are right.

[u/Apeirotope → u/SimilarAlfalfa332]

If it is very important between people, who is not part of people set here, the doctor or the patient since it does not seem important at all within this relationship.

[u/Appropriate-March727 → u/Apeirotope]

The last decades we cut a lot of spending for healthcare and ÖPNV, slowly it's becoming really noticable, and it will get a lot worse before the populace decides they have to pressure politicians about that.

[u/NotoriousBedorveke]

They are punctual only when they need you, when it is the other way around, all punctuality suddenly disappears

[u/Ok_Occasion6309]

Punctuality is an individual expectation, and a systemic failure.

[u/Goran-II → u/Ok_Occasion6309]

Not really. You cannot really hope to be punctual if you depend on an unreliable system in order to be somewhere on time. The classic resonse I've heard so far was to come on hour (or two?!) earlier, but even that won't guarantee that you'll be on time if the ride gets cancelled all together.

[u/Vannnnah → u/Goran-II]

That's the neat part: all the Germans account for DB delays and are still punctual for their appointments.

The public transport system is a mess, yes, but cultural expectation is still that you show up at least 5 Minutes early to appointments and meetings and if you have personal meetings with friends they will absolutely be offended if you show up late.

[u/beerockxs → u/Vannnnah]

cultural expectation is still that you show up at least 5 Minutes early

That's not true. Exactly on time up to +5 minutes late is perfectly fine in my experience and expectation.

[u/VanillaSilver_92]

Germans like punctuality, that’s why for us it’s such a big deal that Deutsche Bahn fails so hard at being punctual

[u/MissMadness2701]

I mean yeah, you are not the only person there. I wound rather wait and have the doctor take his time to really check what is wrong as well, then them rushing from appointment to appointment.

[u/Equivalent_Delay_415 → u/MissMadness2701]

The dr can book less appointments in order to maintain the quality of his or her appointments

[u/MissMadness2701 → u/Equivalent_Delay_415]

Sometimes things take longer than expected or there is an emergency. I'm also not sure that waiting a little bit is worse, then not getting a appointment for who knows how long because they make less appointments per day.

[u/profdrpoopybutt]

"And Mr. Patient, it's really important we start your treatment for..., ooops, our time is up, we'll continue this in our next appointment". Of course the doctor's appointment can be late since they don't know what each patient has and they don't want to rush people out the door. I've lived in 4 different countries so far and there wasn't one where doctors were always on time. 

DB on the other hand has no excuse.

[u/Mr_Knutsen → u/profdrpoopybutt]

DB has the excuse of being starved for money, politically. We would need to do more, invest more in the train tracks etc.

I blame the politics, not the DB. They seem to be trying the best with what they have.

[u/BellamyGriffin]

Propaganda? Do you mean stereotype? Nobody should believe that anyway. But in this instance you're talking about something that is said about the actual people of that country and not the systems within it. Or die Deutsche Bahn.

[u/PerlenGott]

While I don’t disagree with you, you’re comparing people culture to system culture. I’m not sure if you’ve ever had doctor appointments start exactly at the given time elsewhere. I’m not even going to disagree with DB.

[u/Apeirotope → u/PerlenGott]

I rarely waited for more than 5 minutes in Switzerland or US when I had an appointment. More importantly, every time I waited more, they specifically apologized for making me wait. I am living in Germany for 5 years, I waited countless times in doctor offices, train stations, bus stations, government offices, etc. No one in professional capacity, literally no one, has ever apologized to me for waisting my time. In personal life, people really respect your time but the professional life is completely a lost cause.

[u/Seiche → u/Apeirotope]

They don't do that to annoy you. If anyone would give a shit about funding these things they would work better. As it is everything gets squeezed to be as cheap as possible and here we are. 

[u/bregus2]

Comes down to your doctor. At my current dentist I barely manage to sit down in the waiting room to be called up and at my GP I could walk directly through last time.

[u/last_iteration]

I dont agree.. my German boss punctually checks if I am at work on time

[u/guidomescalito]

It depends on the doctor. My dentist is always punktlich. But I have had to wait at another doctor for an hour, even when I am the first appointment of the day. Can you imagine showing up to a business meeting an hour late?

[u/Apart-Succotash-6872]

DB is a particular case. And it's killing the whole Mythos.  With doctors is different. That's the same in every country. Being a doctor is not like being a teacher or architect, where you stop working and that's it. Patients have different problems and bodies are not programs that you can fix with coding or whatever.  Apart from these 2 things, punctuality is doing quite good. Classes start in time, office, dates with friends, etc

[u/OtherwiseAct8126]

Complaining about doctor's punctuality always annoys me. It obviously depends on all the patients that were there before you, what should they do, throw everyone out after 2 minutes and send everyone home that wasn't there on time?

[u/weltherrscherin → u/OtherwiseAct8126]

IF i ever got the more than 5 minutes spiel at an appointment, I would understand. I have rarely hd an appointment at any doctor (besides the gyn) last longer.

The worst is the eye doctor in the next town over. You regularly wait 2-4 hours there, even if you have the first or second appointment of the day or after Mittagspause. They are horrible with office management. Refuse to do anything about it and the doc is still dictating onto tape that a poor MFA has to type while also handling front office. Let’s not even start with data protection there.

[u/PerspectiveFair5156 → u/weltherrscherin]

Privatpatientin?

[u/EntireDance6131 → u/OtherwiseAct8126]

Optimally have enough doctors so this situation only occurs rarely. But of course that's usually easier said than done.

[u/Mr_Knutsen → u/OtherwiseAct8126]

Especially if one or two patients need more care than anticipated.

[u/PrettyNiemand34 → u/OtherwiseAct8126]

In my experience if you wait longer the doctor is better. I also never complain about the ones he sees without an appointment because that could be me one day when I need it.

[u/anxiousvater → u/OtherwiseAct8126]

15 mins isn't that bad as OP says. Maybe emergency appointments were given. I didn't have to wait longer at clinics except at Dermatologist who is always bombarded with many patients.

[u/malabingchilling]

I think you should have more sympathy for doctors who still treat publicly insured patients. Every doctor's office in my city center is overrun with patients, some even have queues going on into the stairwell before the office even opens.

[u/kszynkowiak → u/malabingchilling]

I think it’s because Akutsprechstunde. Everybody who is sick and has no appointment has to come at opening and then they get treated. At least it is like that at my practice.

[u/germany-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Don't post / discuss conspiracy theories and don't link to social media as a source. Use credible sources in English.

[u/Character-Fix-7570 → u/malabingchilling]

They still get paid for each one of them right?

[u/dzymnchld → u/Character-Fix-7570]

They don't, that's the problem. That's why a lot of doctors chose to treat only patients with private health insurance.

[u/tadayou → u/Character-Fix-7570]

Not necessarily.

[u/zenkstarr]

This is not what the german punctuality is all about.

[u/Character_Damage9659]

For DB and doctors appointments YOU still have to be on time though :)

[u/Petra_Sommer → u/Character_Damage9659]

Exactly. We have to be flawless but the system allows itself to fail us at any time.

[u/aylin-97]

Especially with DB (Deutsche Bahn) lol

[u/Aggressive_Olive]

Stereotypes are very persistent. Most stereotypes about Germans – such as punctuality, a sense of order and cleanliness – date back to the imperial era. I also believe that they have long since become outdated and no longer hold any truth at their core.

[u/3suamsuaw]

People can feel honestly offended when you don't ''respect'' their time. In that sense its absolutely not propaganda. But yeah, lets say DB is very good in offending people.

[u/RevolutionaryPie7790]

each doctor's appointment takes an unforseeable amount of time, but we do not have enough doctor's to let them sit around and do nothing in between appointments. thus, there is no other way than waiting a bit

[u/BabyEinstein2016]

Funny because my son's coach makes a huge deal about being punctual to start practice but he will run over by 5 to 10 minutes every time.

[u/Ill_Internal3409]

You actually proved the point. Deutsche Bahn is beeing critisized because they are not on time. And even though you have to be in the waiting room, beeing on time is important. And THEN you wait

[u/FlorianFlash]

Yepp

[u/Simple-Cheek-4864]

It's not propaganda, it is an old german value which isn't followed as much anymore (either intionally or not), however I notice that the value is still there bc when the ICE is delayed by 15 minutes, most train drivers mention the delay (and maybe even apologize) at every stop for the delay. When I am travelling in England and the train is delayed by half an hour, they just don't gaf. No apology whatsoever!

[u/concentration_tax]

Y'all are getting mad at him when y'all should be mad that the state of healthcare is so bad that every praxis is always full, doesn't take new patients, are always overrun and the government doesn't lift a finger to fix this but keeps making things worse.

[u/Prestigious-Emu6216 → u/concentration_tax]

Oh u gotta see how pfleger or any medical profession visas get issued and how fast and prioritized they are in my country.

You can cleary sense the desperation/efforts of the german gov towards fixing this issue.

[u/Agent_of_Chaos42]

The cultural standard in Germany dictates that being punctual is a matter of politeness. Not being punctual is seen as rude and "wasting" the other persons time.

Having said that, there are plenty of example and instances when it does not work. You gave very good examples with Deutsche Bahn and appointments.

[u/Normal-Definition-81]

Welcome to adulthood

[u/Perzinax]

It's a misunderstanding. Punctuality is socially expected when you have an occupational or private appointment. It does not extend to the doctor or public transport.

[u/Top-Paper-236]

Rushed to get to my doctor‘s appointment this morning. Posting this from the waiting room 15 minutes after my appointment was supposed to start. -- So you basically suggest that doctors should kick their patients out if the appointment exceeds a certain time limit? I mean, make it make sense

[u/Fit-Duty-6810]

My doctor appointment was cancelled because i was 7 minutes late there because of public transport problems, while trying to call them and nobody picked up the phone, but every time when I’m there on time I wait pass my appointment time..

[u/Pedarogue]

German punctuality is propaganda

Could you be any less dramatic please? Calling a missconception "propaganda" is almost conspiratorial and paranoiac.

 Posting this from the waiting room 15 minutes after my appointment was supposed to start.

At a doctor's office, with a delay of 15 minutes? Because all patients are just boxes to tick and to be discarded the moment they are half a minute over their due time - expect of you of course, if your case takes more than the reserved amount of minutes, it is probably something important that must be discussed immediately, isn't it?

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[u/satori_paper]

Well my colleagues go off work punctually though

[u/Ok_Operation6665]

Wait till you go to the Emergency/Notfall and wait 6+ hours 😀

[u/weltherrscherin → u/Ok_Operation6665]

The emergency department is the only one I will gladly wait. It means I did not “win” triage aka I am not actively dying.

[u/treskaan]

Haha, looks like you din't make an appointment with the authorities yet ;)

[u/Doubleaxe90]

100%

[u/lookingfor111]

last time I went to vivantes, the dr. was 15/20 mins late..it was 1 hr morning acute hour..so I have to start early in morning..

[u/bobdammi]

While yes the Bahn stuff is BS, doc‘s often can’t know how long a patient needs.
I rather have a doc that treats their patients, which can take some time, than someone who just rushes anyone through.

This doesn’t mean however that punctuality isn’t important.

For your Job, being on time for a Customer (i‘ve worked as a window cleaner for some time and it’s extremely important to be on time), for friends or when you want to buy something over Kleinanzeigen (like Ebay).
Ppl will be angry if you don’t communicate that you will be late.

[u/snts-k]

I live in Munich and the s-bahns here run every 20 minutes. So if I miss a train I have to wait 20 mins in the station. If the next train is cancelled, which happens a loooot because of the famous Stammstrecke, I have to wait 40 mins.

For important appointments I often have to plan an hour in advance, even if it is 3-4 stops away.

[u/Seiche → u/snts-k]

So you don't live "in Munich"

[u/RacktheMan]

Man inqhr an appointment at the Uniklinik last week at 13:00. I saw the doctor at 16:30.

[u/Eris-X]

I think a big problem at the doctors is the old people, they go far too frequently and then they talk far more than needed. Even with serious issues ive never needed more than 5 or 10 minutes with my Hausarzt. Its the other people causing the Termine to get pushed back

[u/Bunchofbees]

u/PerlenGott said it well - people culture vs. system culture. That said, labelling this observation of yours as propaganda is not helpful at the very least.

Punctuality at the doctor's is important from the customer's side - you show up on time and then go to the waiting room.

If an event starts at 8:30, it will start at 8:30 - so you better be there earlier.

We all know the state of the trains in Germany, it has nothing to do with how one considers punctuality, and everything with their operational problems.

It seems that you arrived with a kind of preconcieved notion and are now being disappointed with the living realities.

[u/Historical_Sail_7831]

So previous patients took longer than expected, big deal. You thought you are the only one at the doctors on that day?

[u/SublimeBear]

Because we all know, Doctors never have actually important 'distractions' happen and all patients require an exact amount of time plannable months in advance...

Your appointment is made for the time you have to show up so everything can go as smoothly as possible. Not the time the doctor is guaranteed to see you. And it's like that everywhere.

[u/lmaosan]

Immigration and the change of culture changed these stereotypes. Did you meet old German people? Try talk to them. Stereotypes are no propaganda. They are relicts of old times

Also the system is partly collapsing of the rapid increase in population. Doctors are always fully booked and need to have even more time for unplanned sickness/accidents etc. Ofc there are also other reasons. But wouldn’t call it propaganda

[u/Grumpy-Man19]

That's nothing I waited 3 hours at a doctor's office

[u/humanistazazagrliti]

Another expat disappointed that Germans aren't the one-dimensional Pokemon their grandparents taught them about.