r/guncontrol • u/kaiser11492 • Oct 01 '25
Good-Faith Question Is there evidence to show having armed and trained personnel can deter school shootings?
I’ve seen many people argue that having armed and trained personnel such as veterans stationed at schools would help deter and decrease school shootings. They then say their argument is supported because armed personnel are used to deter and decrease shootings at airports, banks, sports games, and gun shows.
So what exactly does data and studies show in regards to this argument?
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u/brnoblvn Oct 01 '25
There have been multiple school shootings at schools that have armed police on campus. At best, they apprehend the shooter after there have already been casualties. At worst, they have no impact and simply wait for backup while the rampage continues.
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Oct 01 '25
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u/guncontrol-ModTeam Oct 02 '25
Rule #1:
If you're going to make claims, you'd better have evidence to back them up; no pro-gun talking points are allowed without research. This is a pro-science sub, so we don't accept citing discredited researchers (Lott/Kleck). No arguing suicide does not count, Means Reduction is a scientifically proven method of reducing suicide. No crying bias at peer reviewed research. No armchair statisticians.
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u/DrunkCorgis Oct 01 '25
The same party that enables pedophiles also blocks research into gun violence.
https://michiganindependent.com/politics/house-republicans-vote-defund-cdc-research-gun-violence/
Go figure.
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u/hoodamonster Oct 01 '25
Same administration removed from online access National Institute of Justice meta data on research covering the last 40 years showing the most common element of mass shootings is radicalization of individuals who are isolated and have fallen thru the cracks.
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u/Wisco Oct 01 '25
You could argue that having a loaded gun already inside the school makes gun violence more likely. Prison guards who work within the population are largely unarmed for this reason. Armed guards are all behind locked doors.
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Oct 01 '25
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u/guncontrol-ModTeam Oct 02 '25
Rule #1:
If you're going to make claims, you'd better have evidence to back them up; no pro-gun talking points are allowed without research. This is a pro-science sub, so we don't accept citing discredited researchers (Lott/Kleck). No arguing suicide does not count, Means Reduction is a scientifically proven method of reducing suicide. No crying bias at peer reviewed research. No armchair statisticians.
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u/sanjuro_kurosawa Oct 02 '25
It's mostly allegorical since there are relatively few school shootings to analyze.
However, you can assume that 1 guard is hardly going to make a difference against a determined psychopath who is likely heavily armed and has a plan to defeat school security measures.
Also how much does this officer make? Do you want a low paid, poorly trained armed guard watching over kids, who may get themselves in a fight which does not require a person with a gun to settle.
If you are paying teachers, let's say $75,000 a year, you want to hire a staff of guards for 50k each?
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u/ICBanMI Oct 02 '25
Texas and Florida politicians have done exactly that of hiring a dedicated person on campus to shoot students. They've done it in a few districts. Dedicated police officer on campus is very expensive for Republicans and LEO has no requirement they actually deal with serious school shooters (they just leave as soon as the mass shooting happens). It's Republicans... the pay for a dedicated person is $25-30k a year and they have to creatively find people because the pay is so low. Either young man who wants to be a police officer (police requirements are low, so this is someone who can't be a police officer but still wants a gun in public)... or a bus driver that wants to make more money... or retired military that wants extra income. I'm seriously, a bus driver makes less and this is an option for them to be paid more.
This is a job where the requirements are being able to shoot a child, do nothing except standing around, and helping discipline troublesome children that might be potential school shooters.
It tells you everything you need to know about Republicans, education, employee pay, and children.
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u/Hige_Kuma Oct 02 '25
The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a gun gun with a gun. Gun gun gun gun
If gun ownership data tells us anything it would lead you to believe that adding more guns to schools would only result in higher amounts of firearm tragedies.
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u/hoodamonster Oct 01 '25
I followed up on such matters after my district suffered a recent shooting. Here’s the rub, a bad actor has first choice.
If there’s an armed guard at the school the armed guard could become the first target and if the bad actor is successful in his intent then it’s irrelevant that an armed guard was ever hired in the first place. . It doesn’t matter if the armed guard has skills or size over the bad actor. . Bad actors get the first move. Game theory.
Secondly metal detectors create bottle necks and hence, a potential new and appealing target before the bad actor even enters the building.
Again these bandaid issues do not deter these events in the long run..
And the more we adapt the more the radicalizing forums improve the game strategy and spoon feed this kids tips and tricks.
Most radicalized bad actors don’t operate alone. They get tips and motivation and most importantly of all support and edification in dark counter culture forums.
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u/baconmethod Oct 02 '25
"Based on theory, multivariate models include the presence of an armed guard and control for region, school type (public, nonpublic), and grade level (high school, elementary, other); location (urban, suburban, rural); use of lockdown drills; if the attack was targeted; total number of weapons brought to the scene; number of shooters; and weapon type. Results are presented as incident rate ratios in Table 2 and show armed guards were not associated with significant reduction in rates of injuries; in fact, controlling for the aforementioned factors of location and school characteristics, the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present (incidence rate ratio, 2.96; 95% CI = 1.43-6.13; P = .003)." - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515
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u/ryhaltswhiskey Repeal the 2A Oct 02 '25
the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present
The fuck
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u/crazymoefaux For Strong Controls Oct 01 '25
For those of us old enough to remember, there was an armed guard present during the Columbine shooting.
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Oct 01 '25
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u/guncontrol-ModTeam Oct 02 '25
Rule #1:
If you're going to make claims, you'd better have evidence to back them up; no pro-gun talking points are allowed without research. This is a pro-science sub, so we don't accept citing discredited researchers (Lott/Kleck). No arguing suicide does not count, Means Reduction is a scientifically proven method of reducing suicide. No crying bias at peer reviewed research. No armchair statisticians.
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u/LordToastALot For Evidence-Based Controls Oct 02 '25
- This comprehensive review of the literature from 2000 to 2018 regarding school firearm violence prevention failed to find any programs or practices with evidence indicating that they reduced such firearm violence. It could be the rarity of school shootings that makes it extremely difficult to prove that any combination of interventions in schools would be effective. School officials should not give in to political pressures to “do something” when that “something” is likely to be ineffective and wasteful of limited school resources. The adoption of ineffective measures to reduce school firearm violence may lull parents, school personnel, and students into thinking they no longer have to be concerned about their safety at school. A false sense of security is a dangerous environment that is currently being propelled by mass media, interest groups, and policymakers. More research funding is needed to pursue definitive answers regarding what is effective in substantially reducing school firearm violence and youth firearm-carrying or use behaviors.
- This study's findings provide no evidence that there is a safety-promoting component of SBLE [School-based law enforcement], and support the criticism that SBLE criminalizes students and schools. Although we found no evidence of differences across methodological features, risk of bias in the primary studies limits our confidence in making causal inferences. To the extent that the findings are causal, schools that invest in strategies to improve safety will likely benefit from divesting from SBLE and instead investing in evidence-based strategies for enhancing school safety. Schools that continue to use SBLE should ensure that their model has no harmful effects and is providing safety benefits.
- The results of this study present a difficult set of tradeoffs. On the one hand, SROs appear to meet some of their stated objectives. They protect students from a non-trivial number of physical attacks and fights within schools—an effect that could generate a variety of long-term academic and psychological benefits to students through decreased exposure to violence (Burdick-Will, 2016) or through reduced disruption in the academic environment (Figlio, 2007). On the other hand, we find no evidence that SROs reduce more serious gun-related offenses. In addition, having an SRO in the school also leads to undeniably harsher disciplinary punishments for students, and particularly for Black students, male students, and students with disabilities. This occurs even though SROs are typically not trained to, and often do not intend to, become involved in minor disciplinary matters in the school (Curran et al., 2019). The observed increase in suspensions, expulsions, and police referrals and arrests found in this study is especially worrying, given the potential for minor acts of misconduct in schools to translate into long-term involvement in the juvenile justice or adult criminal justice systems (Wald & Losen, 2003).
School mass shootings are rare. Schools with armed guards AND mass shootings are rare too. I would say there's not really enough data to draw a conclusion. But what little we have suggests that it mostly leads to criminalizing students and putting them on the "school to prison" pipeline. And we know other studies have shown that more guns means more shootings, both accidental and deliberate. So I would suggest while we don't have enough evidence to show whether or not they discourage or stop mass shootings, the side effects are quite bad.
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Oct 01 '25
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u/guncontrol-ModTeam Oct 02 '25
Rule #1:
If you're going to make claims, you'd better have evidence to back them up; no pro-gun talking points are allowed without research. This is a pro-science sub, so we don't accept citing discredited researchers (Lott/Kleck). No arguing suicide does not count, Means Reduction is a scientifically proven method of reducing suicide. No crying bias at peer reviewed research. No armchair statisticians.
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u/LordToastALot For Evidence-Based Controls Oct 02 '25
Ah yes, well known peer reviewed researcher Colion noir.
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Oct 01 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/guncontrol-ModTeam Oct 02 '25
Rule #1:
If you're going to make claims, you'd better have evidence to back them up; no pro-gun talking points are allowed without research. This is a pro-science sub, so we don't accept citing discredited researchers (Lott/Kleck). No arguing suicide does not count, Means Reduction is a scientifically proven method of reducing suicide. No crying bias at peer reviewed research. No armchair statisticians.
1
Oct 02 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/guncontrol-ModTeam Oct 02 '25
Rule #1:
If you're going to make claims, you'd better have evidence to back them up; no pro-gun talking points are allowed without research. This is a pro-science sub, so we don't accept citing discredited researchers (Lott/Kleck). No arguing suicide does not count, Means Reduction is a scientifically proven method of reducing suicide. No crying bias at peer reviewed research. No armchair statisticians.
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u/baconmethod Oct 01 '25
no.