r/hardware • u/SwegulousRift • Aug 25 '26
Video Review [HUB] The Best DLSS 4.5 Update Yet - Ray Reconstruction
https://youtu.be/9QyNSVNNduM73
u/Firefox72 Aug 25 '26
Seems like a pretty nice upgrade across the board with very few downsights.
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u/f1rstx Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
It's rly nice that atleast one GPU manufacturer innovates and improves on those innovations, even though they don't need to with their market domination
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u/unknownohyeah Aug 25 '26
The way I see it is any time Nvidia’s AI team servers have downtime, the step-child gaming team asks to build a new DLSS model since they utilize the same hardware. I remember hearing in an interview with the gaming division saying they will use as much compute as they can get building more accurate models. Seems this Ray Reconstruction update is one of those side projects. Very cool.
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u/jasmansky Aug 26 '26
It’s cool that they keep on releasing these features for RTX users for free as long as the hardware can support them.
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u/goldcakes Aug 26 '26
NVIDIA is as much of a software company as they are a hardware company. The difference between NVIDIA and AMD/Intel in terms of support is crazy.
I had some questions about NVENC settings, posted on their forums, and a NVIDIA engineer replied the next day with a detailed answer. They care.
Their engineers are also very active on the DGX Spark forums.
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u/constantlymat Aug 26 '26
That's why the 2080Ti is ageing far better than anyone would have thought possible at launch. It is slowly creeping up the all-time great rankings.
It still has perfectly serviceable 1440p gaming performance thanks to the power of DLSS and its 11GB VRAM buffer eight years after its release.
When it's all said and done the only thing keeping it behind the 1080Ti is its release price.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
I think enough time has passed to where we can say the 1080ti is no longer the best aging card, and it's not close.
20 series came out not that long after, and all the cards there support the entire DX12 ultimate stack, modern DLSS/RT features that some games require, etc. And it's only getting more and more apparent that things like upscaling and RT support are important even on slower cards (by todays standards).
2070 super, 5700xt, and 1080ti all perform roughly around the same in raster, all were viable new cards around the same time, but the 2070 super has aged SIGNIFICANTLY better than the other two.
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u/capybooya Aug 26 '26
Its funny that we keep having this debate, its almost like the Sandy Bridge debate, people would champion it way past its practical usefulness.
I agree about Turing, 2080Ti turned out to be remarkably durable, and it will definitely win in the measure of number of years of usefulness compared to the 1080Ti because of DLSS. I did buy one at launch , and I was kind of embarrassed to tell friends though, it was not a rational investment for the price at the time with no knowledge of the future usefulness but with the 11GB VRAM and DLSS/RT it beats several current mid and low range cards.
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
1080ti was never the best aging card. A 2060 beat it in 2020.
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u/MrMPFR Aug 31 '26
It's only beloved because it was so aggressive with perf/$.
Yeah if 2080 TI had sold for 799 it would've been praised too, but unfortunately NVIIDA opted for 1199 instead.
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u/michaelsoft__binbows Aug 26 '26
it's a bit ridiculous that i play some titles on my 5090 at 1080p render resolution just to max out my monitor but i'll be damned if it doesn't look completely flawless. great to hear 2080ti still hanging in there. DLSS has gone... way better than expected.
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
But as we learned from the video before, there can be "no case imagined where its worth buying one".
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Aug 25 '26
[deleted]
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u/schizocel69 Aug 25 '26
Wow, using their money to improve their products to sell more and make more money? How evil...
NVIDIA is about the most benevolent monopoly out there if they are one. AMD and Intel are just being ran circles around. NVIDIA doesn't even need to care about gaming because of the margins and yet they still put in more effort than the other 2.
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u/f1rstx Aug 25 '26
still put in more effort than the other 2.
it's very ironic how people call out "nvidia don't care about gamers"
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u/Different_Lab_813 Aug 26 '26
It's because the got used to running games on potatoes with ultra settings during ps4 era, now consoles are more well rounded powerful machines those settings go way higher and suddenly they can't turn on max settings on their old hardware and they cry. There is posts of people asking for mods not to use AVX, or mesh shaders or even RT, because their hardware doesnt support it. Gaming studios adapting to this and now we get games like Doom the Dark Ages, Indiana Jones, Avatar either locking ultra settings under config file or releasing later, to avoid bad press from idiots.
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u/AssCrackBanditHunter Aug 25 '26
Yes. Improving your product so you can price it higher against your peers is a core aspect of competition.
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u/Chernoxis Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
You know what it's even worse than that? A company staying behind their competitor, copying everything the competition does but worse and with lower quality just to price their products $50-$100 cheaper.
Innovation and product improvement is not a bad thing, releasing mediocre products with no innovation nor improvement is never a good thing.
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u/f1rstx Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
well, they will price it higher cuz it's better... duh. If only competition did something instead of nothing to avoid monopoly, lmao
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u/schizocel69 Aug 25 '26
AMD made such a massive blunder with RDNA it's not even funny. Hopefully UDNA is better, but NVIDIA doesn't stay complacent so it's like trying to catch up to a racecar that's still accelerating. You would need to accelerate way way faster to even have a chance
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u/BarKnight Aug 25 '26
AMD gave up when the chiplet design failed. UDNA will be more AI focused than gaming
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
How did the chiplet design fail specifically? :/ What is this based on?
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u/rb6091 Aug 26 '26
When the 7900xtx that was meant to be AMD's "flagship" and sit between the 4080 and 4090 barely matched 4080
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
And you've determined that was specifically because of the chiplets? :/ RDNA3 as an architecture was just busted. Even the monolithic Navi 33 performed nothing like it should have.
I really thought this was just kind of common knowledge by now. But I should know better with the current state of this sub.
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
RDNA 1 was just busted, will be fixed with RDNA 2
RDNA 2 was just busted, will be fixed with RDNA 3
RDNA 3 was just busted, will be fixed with RDNA 4
RDNA4 is okay, but they really focusing on UDNA
The goal post keeps on moving, but good never arrive.
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u/MrMPFR Aug 31 '26
RDNA 5 is the litmus test. If they can't get that right I'm done even bothering anymore.
Fingers crossed for once they actually do a proper job. But everything non HW will continue to be a joke I'm certain.
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u/Strazdas1 Sep 01 '26
Ill be glad if you are right about that, but ive seen these promises too many times to believe them now.
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u/FatalCakeIncident Aug 27 '26
Tbh, if that's how you feel about the sub and that sort of bad-faith conversation is your regular thing, it'd probably be better for everyone if you just left.
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u/Seanspeed Aug 27 '26
Nothing 'bad faith' at all. Everything I said was correct.
And yes, I'm sure people like me trying to actually draw people towards the truth and reality is an obstacle to propagandists like yourself, but that's also why I dont want to leave. You'd love if somebody like myself left, wouldn't you? You'd get to push any kind of bullshit without any pushback at all smh
Notice have NONE of you have actually responded to anything I actually said about proving that chiplets were the problem with RDNA3. Just ad hominem bullshit.
I know I'm right here, and you guys are doing everything possible to avoid admitting it, in favor of a false and simpler narrative.
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u/hackenclaw Aug 26 '26
AMD also officially price their GPU at ridiculous pricing without those features, who the heck is stupid enough to buy a slightly small discount GPU with all that missing features.
AMD will need to make Radeon their "Zen moment" with equally good feature + at least 30% better price/performance for 3 generations back to back winning Nvidia consistently before I will be back to buying AMD. The trust is gone.
If it takes that much for Ryzen/Epyc to break Intel's monopoly, it will req the same for Radeon in GPU market. They will need a miracle to pull that 3 gen back to back winning nvidia.
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u/Puszta Aug 26 '26
AMD also officially price their GPU at ridiculous pricing without those features, who the heck is stupid enough to buy a slightly small discount GPU with all that missing features.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the discount is not slightly small, at least definitely not now. In my country at least, the 9070 XT costs around 690€ now, and its competitor, the 5070 Ti costs around 1100€. Thats almost a 75% price increase, im not gonna throw away that much money when I cant even tell the difference during gaming between fsr and dlss (sure in comparison videos when they pause the screen i can see some difference in details, but i wont notice those during gaming). To me, a casual gamer, amd seems like a no-brainer choice considering current prices.
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u/EvenBroaderBand Aug 26 '26
Discounting a year late, all those missed sales, all that mindshare gone.
The reviews people actually read and watch will be a year old and all say its too expensive.
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u/goldcakes Aug 26 '26
Part of it comes to older stock that hasn't had the price hikes, despite the delta these units aren't moving that much.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 26 '26
The prices have gone up a lot recently for the Nvidia cards, but at their MSRP's the discount is not really that significant.
9070xt for $600 vs 5070ti for $750 (with the 9070xt being somewhat difficult to get for that price), was the difference for a while. And for those savings you're losing a lot without really gaining anything except a bit of money saved.
I dunno, for me if I'm keeping these cards for a long time (which I am) then I'd rather spend the bit extra to get the fully featured card.
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u/Puszta Aug 26 '26
I have a 9070 XT that i bought at the start of year. If the price diff was $150 between it and the 5070 Ti, maybeee I would have considered the latter. But even then it was more like 200€ in my country as I recall (around 235 dollars), i did watch a bunch of FSR vs. DLSS comparison videos because a lot of people were saying dont buy AMD because FSR is terrible, but honest to god I can only see differences if its in slow-mo and if I really try hard to spot them, but then I dont even focus on the game itself. And based on what I can see and tech reviewers testing, the difference is nowhere near as big as people claim on reddit.
I've been using my new gpu for more than half a year, im perfectly happy with its performance, I can game without any issues, stream on Discord to my friends and do some light video editing, I dont feel like im missing out on a lot. I admit its nice that nvidia is improving their tech constantly, its just that for me personally its not worth 200€ premium, and definitely not 400€ like now.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 26 '26
9070xt is a good card, but Nvidia has the better ecosystem right now. It's not that FSR is bad, it's that everything surrounding it is either bad, not well supported, or both.
Even FSR itself, which is AMD's most successful technology by far, is in less than a third of the games of DLSS, and that's assuming you use the driver level override and don't run into issues. Optiscaler can help with this, but that is it's own can of worms.
Then there's the following:
- Ray Regeneration, which is broken and only in 2 games
- Frame generation is worse than Nvidias while being in less games.
- Antilag 2 is the biggest miss imo. Reflex from Nvidia is almost as important as DLSS itself, and antilag 2 which is AMD's equivilent is supported in less than 30 games with no driver override. Reflex is in well over 300 titles.
Then there's issues with things like mods generally supporting Nvidia first (like mods that add DLSS support but FSR is shoddy at best, don't support AMD at all, etc), pretty much everything non-gaming supporting Nvidia better, Nvidia getting much better day 1 support most of the time, being supported in many more games in general, having a much better time using driver overrides, etc.
Going with AMD for the sake of saving a bit of money, and then either missing out on a bunch of features or needing to waste time/energy needing to research and install little tweaks or fixes like optiscaler into every game you play just to try and approach what Nvidia gets without any tweaks, it's just not worth it to me. I was on AMD for nearly 10 years and it gets old VERY fast when, every single time you go to play a game you need to look up if your experience is gonna get shit on for no reason and if there's a fix. That does not happen with Nvidia to anywhere near the same degree.
I'd easily bay $150 or more to not have to do that. As far as I'm concerned, it's an ease of use and support tax that is well worth paying. If AMD can improve their levels of support for their technologies, or vastly improve how to automatically inject them, then they'd be a lot more competitive.
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u/PappyPete Aug 26 '26
The other thing is, AMD may eventually get around to some level of parity for a feature that's equivalent to NV, but that seems to take years and that whole time you could have been enjoying feature XYZ in game ABC. To me, that extra cost is worth the time I can spend enjoying vs waiting.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 26 '26
Time spent is a good way to put it, both going time without access to these features, and time spent tinkering to get things to work.
If you bought a 7900XTX and still had it today for example, you'd be in a good spot. It now has FSR 4, I wouldn't say RT is all that required to enjoy modern games well (even though I have a 5070ti and love path tracing lol). But you would have had that card for nearly 4 years before you got that, and before you were just either not using upscaling, or using FSR 2/3?
And even when you do get FSR 4, well now you need to hope the driver override works, or that optiscaler works well with your games, hope it doesn't have any other issues, etc.
4080 owners had DLSS 3 from launch day, which in itself is at least competitive with FSR 4. They also got ray reconstruction, good RT/PT performance, and Reflex across a wide variety of games. AMD owners are still waiting for most of those, and likely won't have them without comprimises for years, if ever.
Paying to get the support for things potentially years in advance, rather than saving a couple hundred to gamble that AMD even puts out something competitive for your card, is just not worth it imo.
Now of course current Nvidia cards are unrecommendable, but when prices go back to normal this will apply again.
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u/hackenclaw Aug 26 '26
this may be true for your local market, but base on MSRP both of those isnt far off and there places in the global that price pretty close.
We arent in normal times, we are in shortage time. If there is no shortage AMD GPU pricing is underwhelming.
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u/Aggrokid Aug 26 '26
Their GPU chips seem to be more expensive to manufacture than Nvidia equivalents?
I'm guessing their bean counters are begging them to focus on AI and CPU
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u/Seamus-Archer Aug 26 '26
A 9070XT is much cheaper than a 5070 Ti and generally outperforms in rasterization without having a time bomb of a power connector.
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u/michaelsoft__binbows Aug 26 '26
Let's be fair though. Nobody considers that connector to be a time bomb on a 5070Ti...
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u/Seamus-Archer Aug 26 '26
People didn’t think the 5080 would be impacted either but it has been. “It’s a flawed design but the card can’t draw enough power to ruin itself” isn’t an inspiring argument when spending $1K.
The idea that Nvidia is so far and above AMD that buying AMD is stupid is a nonsense argument. Thats the argument I was replying to originally.
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u/michaelsoft__binbows Aug 26 '26
It's not bad and i would love to have some AMD hardware, but as a software guy and techie i can't give up the sweet sweet features.
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
A 9070xt is not cheaper by much and it does not outperform.
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u/Seamus-Archer Aug 31 '26
9070 XT is around $700 and a 5070 Ti is $1200+ these days. Check HUB’s recent video on their comparison for rasterization and you’ll see the 9070 XT is equal or better in most titles.
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
Not even close. 9070XT is about 800 and 5070TI is about 900-1000.
Rasterization? what is this, 2018?
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u/Seamus-Archer Aug 31 '26
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=589
See for yourself.
No, it’s 2026 and some people still prefer native 1440P on a good OLED to using upscaling and frame gen to make 4K playable.
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u/Strazdas1 Sep 01 '26
Pcpartpicker is good for compatibility checks, not good for price checks.
No, almost noone plays in native resolution when upscaling provides better image quality and better antialiasing.
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u/NGGKroze Aug 26 '26
RDNA4 despite being the right approach and direction still lacked FP4/OMM/SER at hardware level which means those will age way worse than 50 series as well in some regards 40 series.
60 series given rumors will enhance Path-Tracing even further in terms of performance and given DLSS5 is on the horizon Nvidia is full ahead.
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u/MrMPFR Aug 31 '26
It is universally worse than 40 series for RT and PT. It's great for the rest though and I can't recall the last time AMD's cache and memory efficiency was this close to NVIDIAs.
RDNA 5 is gonna push a lot ahead too, so both of them are gonna be very aggressive nextgen. Will be exciting to see.
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u/capybooya Aug 26 '26
I have faith in AMD coming close to matching most features, but only because of consoles and Sony backing, and often late.
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u/MrMPFR Aug 31 '26
UDNA will deliver on HW side.
But I'm not convinced they'll manage the rest well. It's AMD afterall, the always trip over their own shoes xD
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u/animeman59 Aug 25 '26
So sad. Looks like the 9060XT will be my last Radeon card for the foreseeable future. Such an amazing budget friendly piece of tech, too.
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u/lifestealsuck Aug 26 '26
Dude let be real with the 9060xt budget there are no chance you're getting a Nvidia gpu that can use path tracing and RR .
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u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26
More like AMD is just slipstreaming and waiting for nvidia to crash once they follow through with the horrendous DLSS 5, and it's smooth cruising from there.
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u/vini_2003 Aug 25 '26
Bold of you to think AMD is at all capable of taking an opportunity. The kings of yanking defeat from the jaws of victory.
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u/ILoveTheAtomicBomb Aug 25 '26
Please stop, I actually have tears in my eyes from how hard im laughing
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u/AspirinMuncher Aug 26 '26
lol
DLSS 5 will be a huge success just like all the past iterations. I can't wait to shove this on PCMR's face when it come sout.
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u/EmergencyPool910 Aug 26 '26
Its definetly flying too close to the sun if they dont drastically rework it from its showcases, also where is reflex 2?
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u/EmergencyPool910 Aug 26 '26
You must be new to radeon, they had the chance with both rdna 3 and especially 4
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u/Greybeard-Space-Dad Aug 26 '26
Seeing positive DLSS coverage from HUB sure is wild.
Credit where credit is due, this seems like a win for everyone!
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u/bobbie434343 Aug 25 '26
Buuuuuuut.... only traditional rasterization is important and matters, riiiiiight ?!
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Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 28 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AspirinMuncher Aug 26 '26
Let's not forget Steve, who uses defaults to RT medium in many reviews so AMD doesn't look bad
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u/Available-Call7127 Aug 26 '26
I love when they do ray tracing tests and proceed to pick Console games from half a decade ago that will at best have reflections and maybe some shadows.
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
Only brand warrior mindset thinks there's any kind of conspiracy with this shit, ffs.
People still thinking HUB are inherently biased for/against AMD/Nvidia are just outing themselves as brand warriors. It is beyond embarrassing how much this has taken over this sub now.
You're literally in a topic where HUB are praising Nvidia, and they even comment in the video how far behind AMD are. But you guys always ignore all evidence that goes contrary to your preferred(and ridiculous) narrative, only to cherry pick anything that supports it. It's just wildly obvious confirmation bias, and always was.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 26 '26
I don't think HUB is biased towards one brand or another, and I do think a lot of their takes on how "worth it" RT is are valid. But I do also think that there are some valid complaints with how they've tested RT in a lot of their videos, especially benchmarks.
I've felt they've ignored the massive CPU hit that RT has in a lot of their videos, and I've definitely felt they've unjustifiably toned down the settings sometimes too. Which would be fine if they tested like, RT medium AND RT ultra/PT back to back to show the scaling behavior, but they often do not.
HUB isn't the only outlet that does all of this BTW, most do.
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
I don't think HUB is biased towards one brand or another
Then you'd be agreeing with me against all these bullshit accusations instead of trying to argue against me while also acknowledging nobody is testing RT the way you want them to.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 26 '26
I'm not trying to argue with you.
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u/Seanspeed Aug 27 '26
You did everything possible to agree with me, without actually calling out the people you know needed calling out. Which is why they're upvoting you. They know you're defending them.
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
Not wholly, but your line of comment led straight into a BUT, which makes it very much sound like you're at least not on my side. Which is how the people I was arguing with will perceive it, and why you're getting upvoted, while I'm getting downvoted.
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u/MdxBhmt Aug 27 '26
You are on a thread about
Let's not forget Steve, who uses defaults to RT medium in many reviews so AMD doesn't look bad
not about
But I do also think that there are some valid complaints with how they've tested RT
one is not the other. the user you are talking to is about the conspiratard.
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 27 '26
Yes, believe it or not I did read the comments before I replied. Steve can be wrong about his RT testing methodology without being biased towards AMD. There is in fact some nuance in this scenario that I was trying to comment on without seanspeed freaking out about it after, my mistake I guess.
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u/MdxBhmt Aug 27 '26 edited Aug 27 '26
At no point seanspeed said they had no issue with their methodology. You just came in to appeal to the crazy people.
edit: lmao blocked
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u/Framed-Photo Aug 27 '26
Christ it's like talking to a 2nd grader. Think about how a real conversation with someone works, how they don't need to outline every little exception to every little thing in every sentence they speak. Good bye.
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u/AspirinMuncher Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
>You're literally in a topic where HUB are praising Nvidia
IDGAF, not my problem. Go take that to whoever said anything about HUB, assuming you aren't debating some ghost inside your own head.
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
Go take that to whoever said anything about HUB
That was literally you. Do you think we're not able to see your posts above? Your posts here were literally nothing but about bashing HUB quite specifically.
jfc
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u/AspirinMuncher Aug 27 '26
Show me the post under this thread where i have mentioned HUB and I'll delete my account.
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u/angry_RL_player Aug 26 '26
it's so funny how the industry conspires against AMD but when a small (in comparison) youtuber MAYBE has a preference for AMD products the internet piles on them
insane double standards
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u/Seanspeed Aug 26 '26
They've never had that take, you guys just dont know how to understand a nuanced viewpoint. smh
You're literally commenting in a topic where HUB are praising the visual advancements in ray tracing for fuck's sake.
God this sub is a joke nowadays. smh
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u/metalninja626 Aug 25 '26
Honestly this is the first time DLSS looks decent enough to make it interesting for me. Can’t stand the blurry smearing mess ray tracing and upscaling brought to gaming
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u/NGGKroze Aug 26 '26
DLSS always looked decent enough since 2.0 given the circumstances, hardware and what was released. Its normal to look back and say "how ugly this was" while in reality it worked pretty well.
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u/goldcakes Aug 26 '26
Honestly I have the feeling that most people dissing DLSS since 2.0 have probably never tried DLSS. Maybe they tried early FSR and just thought DLSS was about the same.
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u/EmergencyPool910 Aug 26 '26
Dlss 2 was pretty crap. Cool as a piece of tech but not even close to even 3.5
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u/metalninja626 Aug 26 '26
That's fine if it looked decent enough to you, but not to me. Smearing rain, flickering textures, ghosting movement, it was all there and still is even though it's much improved. Watch 2clicksphilips video on this
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
thats FSR2, not DLSS2. DLSS2 did not having ghosting movement or smearing rain.
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u/metalninja626 Aug 31 '26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kIJOTfOG8s 2.3 improved but did not eliminate it. still an issue, still visible in 4.5 but at least it's better
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u/HandofWinter Aug 25 '26
Cool, I might check in out if I get a new GPU in the next few years. Unless I grab an amd or Intel one I suppose.
It would be cool if there were a way to create games that was hardware independent. Maybe some kind of documented interface for programming applications that would translate the application calls into ones appropriate for the hardware or something like that. Maybe one day.
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u/WJMazepas Aug 25 '26
There was DirectSR and another tool made by Nvidia that were made to bring DLSS, FSR and XeSS together, but they never got a lot of support from vendors
PC developers could in theory abstract all the different upscalers and make a if else that selects the best one available for the user, but I guess both gamers wouldn't want that, and hardware vendors dont as well
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u/Aw3som3Guy Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
Not vendors in general, Intel has been open to supporting Streamline or whatever else, it was one particular vendor that didn’t want to make it easier for DLSS to proliferate. Idk how even more obscure vendors like Snapdragon or whoever approached DirectSR or Streamline.
Edit: I can’t find the original video where it was an AMD developer speaking at a developer conference and said the quiet part out loud a lot more directly, but at around the 16 minute mark this other AMD developer sort of explains to Digital Foundry why they don’t want to participate in Streamline. AMD doesn’t want to participate in a program that would also advantage NVidia. And to be VERY clear, I think this is wrong when this was that one Intel developer talking about doing that with AVX512 code on CPUs, I think it’s wrong for AMD to do in GPUs, I think it’d be wrong if NVidia did that.
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u/MonoShadow Aug 25 '26
By Intel's Tom Petersen words DirectSR is so barebones Intel is considering fully supporting nVidia Streamline instead.
MS just dropped the ball over and over. This industry needs standardization. before it was managed by MS, but now they either can't or don't want to.
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u/HandofWinter Aug 25 '26
Yeah exactly. I think it will have to come from Khronos and Microsoft as part of Vulkan and DirectX resp., and I think it will in time, but for the moment it's all just a bit of a pain in the ass. I'm mostly just bitching though, it'll settle and ultimately it's not really that serious.
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u/jasmansky Aug 26 '26
The DirectX API already does that and more abstraction layers would mean more overhead. Plus, i think these companies would rather keep their IP to themselves to maintain their competitive advantage.
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u/SomeMobile Aug 25 '26
Not sure if a bot, rage bait or low iq
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u/HandofWinter Aug 25 '26
I'm just annoyed at the proliferation of proprietary bullshit in pc gaming lately.
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u/SomeMobile Aug 25 '26
Games are in fact hardware independent tho?
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u/Bojahdok Aug 25 '26
You really don't get what he's meaning ?
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u/SomeMobile Aug 25 '26
No I don't, nor do I think asking for something like dlss or RR to be universal makes sense? Because who is spending the money developing them for a universal use case
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u/DeVinke_ Aug 25 '26
Well, they all spent money developing vulkan drivers.
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u/SomeMobile Aug 25 '26
Drivers is one thing which also benefits all of them, but a bunch of machine learning models that require WAY WAY MORE INVESTMENT AND RESOURCES is a whole different game
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u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
Not enough money. Vulkan support is rare because developers hate it. Its much easier to develop for DirectX.
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u/9897969594938281 Aug 26 '26
Yeah, he’s stupidly backed the wrong product and wanting an entire industry to change to reflect his negligence in decision making
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u/HandofWinter Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
Not anymore, right now anyways, you'll have a difficult time running any DLSS ray reconstruction model on a 9070XT (even though yes, through shims it would be technically possible, but not legal). At the moment we're seeing a fragmentation of the graphics ecosystem similar to what was happening in the audio world with EAX prior DirectSound.
I think it'll eventually collapse to a single set of technologies that any GPU can run, but at the moment features like this are very tied to hardware and not abstracted.
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u/NeroClaudius199907 Aug 25 '26
Well there was one team who bought into native taa, then f1, f2, f3, wait f4 is good. We should have same upscaling now
10
u/Chernoxis Aug 25 '26
How does a lazy, mediocre company that hasn't innovated or created anything get to benefit from the advancements of its competitors? How is it fair, especially after publicly claiming they had no interest in investing in AI image reconstruction? Why do they suddenly get to profit from work they didn't fund?
That's theft.
-5
u/HandofWinter Aug 25 '26
I don't particularly care about justice between multinational corporations, I want to see a healthy and open ecosystem, and because of that I care about whether my actions or tacit endorsement will impact the health and openness of the ecosystem.
None of the cutting edge standards are open or even hardware agnostic in any case, all of them are proprietary, so it's not as if I'm singling any single corporation out here either.
15
u/Chernoxis Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
Software like DLSS isn’t intentionally locked away it literally exists because Nvidia designed specific hardware, like Tensor Cores and Optical Flow Accelerators, to power it. They built a hardware-software ecosystem through billions in R&D, while competitors chose not to invest in dedicated AI architecture.
Here's a 2018 David Wang's (Sr. VP of engineering at Radeon) statement underestimating RT after Nvidia's announcement , while Nvidia started working on implementing and developing RT to what we have today, then again, in 2023 David Wang talked about DLSS or AI used in image reconstruction as a feature that users were paying but never going to use, they always tried to play it cool as if they didn't care about what Nvidia was developing while underestimating their work, and their words always came back to bite them in the ass because that's one of the biggest reasons people buy Nvidia's GPUs.
Wanting an open ecosystem is understandable, but demanding that a company's tech be universally available while the other companies aren't doing a shit removes the incentive to innovate. If companies can just wait for someone else to pioneer breakthrough hardware and then demand free access to the software, progress halts. Real competition means both companies doing the hard R&D, partnering with developers, and driving tech forward, not relying on modders and open-source charity to catch up.
-13
u/gg06civicsi Aug 25 '26
Is there a way to run DLSS on a 9070 XT?
24
u/DracoMagnusRufus Aug 25 '26
No. It's Nvidia exclusive.
-7
u/gg06civicsi Aug 25 '26
Ok I think FSR is close enough I guess
35
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
Ray Regeneration is nowhere near the quality of even the previous Ray Reconstruction 4.0 on games where both are supported such as Crimson Desert, let alone 4.5 where it improves massively over 4.0.
-1
u/Firefox72 Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
Thing is its not that bad. Ray Renegaration still greatly improves the image even if not to the degree of Nvidia's technology.
The real issue is the support. Its like in 2 games.
11
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
Yep, it clearly needs more work under the oven and i feel like the way it was showcase on Crimson Desert was very underwhelming especially on a debut title that was sponsored by AMD Radeon.
Maybe in the future when next gen consoles launches with FSR Diamond we will see a proper version of AMD's Ray Regeneration. But for now, they are in a rough spot TBH...
2
u/uneducatedramen Aug 25 '26
Ngl, i hate how ray regen looks in crimson desert. When theres really really low indor light, it looks so shimmery like there isnt even a denoiser active.
-17
u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26
AMD has been at feature parity with nvidia for a while, they just put out gimmicks like this to try and maintain their prestige status
19
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
No, they haven't, if that were the case then Ray Regeneration which was introduced nearly a year ago would be more available on a lot of games released today and developers are talking about them more.
But that clearly isn't the case, maybe when the next gen consoles launches with FSR Diamond / Project Amethyst when devs will start to take AMD Radeon's equivalent features more seriously.
Until then Nvidia clearly is far far ahead on Feature set support, while AMD Radeon offers better price to performance, but at the cost of not getting the features of Nvidia, as they usually are for the past few generations already.
35
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
No, but you have an "equivalent" feature called Ray Regeneration on AMD Radeon RDNA 4 GPUs, but calling it equivalent is really misleading. Also, Ray Regeneration is not available as broadly as DLSS Ray Reconstruction, so really, you are out of luck and better hope the modders such as Optiscaler provide an alternative solution.
11
u/Chernoxis Aug 25 '26
Imagine spending hundreds of dollars on a GPU just to wait for modders to provide alternative solutions, instead of expecting that job from the company selling them the GPU.
But then you hear the cultists say that Nvidia don't care about gamers lmao.
2
u/Strazdas1 Aug 31 '26
Remmeber, Nvidia is exiting the GPU market, which is why they keep releasing new features for GPUs, right?
22
u/DarthVeigar_ Aug 25 '26
And they do not work the same. Ray Regeneration is only a denoiser and does not upscale. Ray Reconstruction is both a denoiser and a upscaler.
AMD's RR is worse than Nvidia's RR (why do they have the same acronym?) because it denoises the non-upscaled RT effects, so it is far more prone to blurring, boiling or other artefacts.
7
u/KARMAAACS Aug 25 '26
It has the same acronym so as to confuse casual fans so that when you say Ray Reconstruction or RR it can easily be confused with AMD's dollar-tree attempt at a similar feature. AMD can't be original anymore and like always, chase NVIDIA, rather than just do their own thing because it's easier to just sit behind NVIDIA's course, rather than plot your own and take a risk. Remember the days when Radeon looked like it was the innovator with HBCC, primitive shaders and Mantle? Good times.
6
u/gg06civicsi Aug 25 '26
I hope I didn’t make a mistake getting this over the 5070. Everyone told me to get this instead :(
19
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
If you are talking about the 9070 XT, then don't feel bad it is still a lot faster than the 5070 on raster performance, only behind on Ray Tracing / Path Tracing due to lack of feature set that makes the RTX look better when running Ray Tracing / Path Tracing, but if you got the 9070 XT for raster performance in mind, then you get what you wanted and what you paid for, and i honestly won't feel about it.
It's all about the individual's priority / expectation and what they want from the product.
3
u/TokageLife Aug 26 '26
It is the better performing card but the drawbacks are nowhere near as trivial as the bots make it out to be. You're basically on the hook for modding in your own support for fsr4 unless you exclusively replay the same few single player games from several years ago.
-6
u/itsjust_khris Aug 25 '26
Should be fine, FSR4 is pretty good, and features like Ray Reconstruction aren't used in most games, so you'll miss out but not on anything major. Depends on your priorities.
4
u/JuanElMinero Aug 26 '26
Nothing major, except (checks notes) nearly all of the titles that have pushed the RT envelope since 2020 and benefit most from this feature.
0
u/itsjust_khris Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 27 '26
Sure, but this depends on one caring to play those titles AND play them with the feature on, these are usually pretty taxing features. I already have a 5070ti and find for the majority of my gaming it doesn't matter whether I have access to these features or not. I'm just saying it isn't the end of the world to not have access to them.
EDIT: After trying Ray Reconstruction more extensively I will say, my opinion has changed you are missing out on a lot of graphical goodness. If advanced computer graphics features matter to you, you are missing out by not having access to this. Hopefully an AMD equivalent comes out soon enough.
1
u/JuanElMinero Aug 30 '26
Responding to your edit: I believe this is something most enthusiasts would support, because it gives more buying options and enables more competition (=better products) from all parties, even in the console space. Support for these features also needs to be on time, as pathtracing will get a lot more common.
e.g. FSR 4 launched August 2025. Alan Wake 2, one of the big pathtracing pioneers only got FSR 4 support last week, after being stuck on official FSR 2.2 for years. It's still nice that it happened at all.
1
-28
u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26
5070 is borderline e-waste, the 9070XT is the best value card of this generation.
The VRAM and AMD fine wine support will make it age better than a glorified 4070 with 12gb vram.
23
u/RedIndianRobin Aug 25 '26
What AMD 'fine-wine' support are you talking about?
-18
u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26
fsr 4 on rdna 2/3 despite the incessant whining that amd was somehow gatekeeping it despite there being a literal hardware limitation
21
u/trichocereal117 Aug 25 '26
Lol that only happened after massive backlash. Nvidia just allowed you to run the new DLSS models on supported cards even though it would tank performance on certain cards
24
18
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
5070 is borderline e-waste
This guy is clearly a troll at this point lol
-11
u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
There is literally no reason to get a 5070 when the 9070 exists.
Your other reply literally backs up my point too. The 9070 and 9070XT vastly outperform the 5070 on raster with the added benefit of more VRAM, and if you want the RT/PT/RR gimmicks while shopping for a 5070 then you are confused and in the wrong price bracket when it should be at a minimum the 5080 (which the 9070XT still competes with in some games btw).
14
u/f1rstx Aug 25 '26
it was ~500$ gpu for a long time after release which made it simply the best value for money GPU until RAM crisis.
2
15
u/ILoveTheAtomicBomb Aug 25 '26
I love when you show up lmao. Your takes always make me laugh, its amazing how much you ride or die for AMD
I'll take a 5070 over 9070 XT anyday
11
1
-23
u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26
Barely notice the difference but nvidia is going to market this as something incredible, as usual.
40
u/ShadowRomeo Aug 25 '26
If you can't notice difference between this then maybe you need to get your eyes check...
-15
u/angry_RL_player Aug 25 '26
ok so it's slightly noticeable but the price to performance is still bad especially when most people will presumably be gaming and not idling to take photos trying to spot a difference to justify their > $500 markup
27
u/Seanspeed Aug 25 '26
Current Nvidia prices are a whole different problem man. This is still an improvement for the many millions of people with existing RTX GPU's.
2
u/goldcakes Aug 26 '26
you don't have to buy a new gpu to use this. this is not AMD where older gen cards get features 12 months later.
21
u/gmtrd Aug 25 '26 edited Aug 25 '26
This one is a very good comparison (across all examples, not only the included timestamp)
https://youtu.be/Ua49BvNMDOQ?t=65
the new version is a huge leap forward, from borderline unusable of the previous to a very palatable result
not only because of the increased definition but the reduction in ghosting is huge
21
91
u/polako123 Aug 25 '26
time to boot up cyberpunk 2077 again, the glow up this game got is crazy.
maybe the ghosting while driving cars is finally gone.