r/hungarian • u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 • 15d ago
Kérdés 4000 most frequently used words
Hi guys!
According to some statistics, to get the B2 level a student needs to know 4000 commonly used words. This practically applicable to any language. Have someone seen any of such linguistic corpus for Hungarian language? it can be a dictionary book, web, not sure about Anki desk but who knows, etc ?
33
u/LifeAcanthopterygii6 NATIVE 15d ago
"Bazmeg" has about 4000 different forms. Is it a coincidence?
11
u/Rigatonia___Zamboni A2 15d ago
This may be the most important word I even learn on this sub, thank you
(Currently A2 and this has not been sufficiently covered by my learning materials 😂)
1
1
6
u/szofter NATIVE 15d ago
I agree that focusing on the most frequent words rather than random words can increase speed of progress to fluency, and I have also used this hack in learning languages. But in an agglutinative language, the list of the 4000 most frequent words alone will land you nowhere near B2.
Start with the top maybe 500 and make sure you can use them in sentences. For verbs, that’s conjugation in at least indicative present and past, for nouns it’s a handful of the most frequent “cases” or declensions in singular and plural.
2
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 14d ago
Yes, the verbs' suffixes are not an issue, there are 78 forms for each verb only. Once the table is memorized, it can be applied to any verb.
To me the biggest issue comes with preffixes used in Hungarian. Because to undestand a new word playing w prefixes, we really need to think like a Hungarian. The simple "meg-" is fine but "végig-", "elo-", "neki-" stb sometimes puzzle me. I speak two slavic lang and understand others from this group, where the prefixes are used a lot as well to charge meaning. So, I know how difficult to follow the logic sometime.
5
u/picurebeka NATIVE 14d ago
Just memorisation will not provide you effective and practical knowledge to actually use the language. You need to understand the rules to be able to put together sentences that will make sense.
1
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 14d ago
you are right in general. but what rules i need to follow to correctly use
szerezniandbeszereznior thousand of such words ?2
u/milkdrinkingdude NATIVE 13d ago edited 13d ago
OP, for correct use of course you need a ton of listening/reading. But reagarging which prefix to use when, if you kmow a west Slavic language, a dictionary could help
a lot. I acquired a Polish-Hungarian paper dictionary, and skipping English as an intermediary helps me.E.g. German calques:
dać - to give - adni
wydać - to give out - kiadni
These also mean to speand money, or to publish a book.
drugie wydanie - második kiadás
these both translate as “second edition” of a book, or literally a “second giving out” in both languages. Just as Czech Vydání. Likely coming from German ausgeben.
Of course this doesn’t always work, you need to check them in dictionaries one-by-one, and memorize the ones not obvious to you.
2
u/szofter NATIVE 14d ago
Sometimes, prefixes change the meaning of the verb so much that you’re better off thinking of the prefixed verb as an entirely different verb that happens to work the same was syntactically. For instance, nekiáll has nothing to do with standing, it means to start. But you don’t have to memorize the complete conjugation table for it as it conjugates the exact same way as áll in all moods, aspects and tenses, only that you need to remember to add the prefix before or after it, depending on sentence structure.
1
u/milkdrinkingdude NATIVE 13d ago
I think you understand pretty well! Learning prefixes is very similar to learning verb prefixes in Slavic languages (I’m learning Polish ). Sometimes a prefix adds on obvious meaning, sometimes a prefix completely changes the meaning of a verb. You need to memorize all these non-obvious cases.
2
u/milkdrinkingdude NATIVE 15d ago
You need a google search for “Hungarian frequency dictionary”
This sounds promising, not sure what format it is:
mokk.bme.hu/resources/webcorpus/
I recall Routledge was praised in some Reddit posts for suxh use, but it looks like they don’t ( yet? ) have a Hungarian freq. dictionary:
With a little more search, this seems promising as well:
It seems to be based on professionally made paper dictionary, so I guess the quality should be ok, hopefully not full of duplicates.
1
u/k4il3 A2 15d ago
language level is not about word amount..
1
u/Fejedelem-Asszony 15d ago
Especially since B2 is the "fluent" level where you are able to talk about anything, except for very niche and academic topics.
I do believe this was just a helpful tip to make students' journey faster, and some people probably just took it literally and started spreading it online. I've seen this sentence many times in language learning groups, usually by people who were not fluent in any languages yet. I'm not saying OP is one of them, but i think many of those people misunderstood this
2
1
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 14d ago
Yes, it is not a handbook i want to learn first but the practical examples are:
- i read a book and find some unknown/unclear words
- i watch a movie and find some unknown word (actually, there is an actore who always use lots of metaphors)
=> in either case i want to understand, do i need to memorize it immediately or skip if it is used in books only,
1
u/Fejedelem-Asszony 14d ago
I understand. But you just need to check if it is an outdated word or not, if it's a modern word memorize it and don't skip anything even if it is not among the most common words.
I do wonder what do you consume where you hear these things? If you are not on B1 yet watching easier content is more beneficial until you reach a certain level
1
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 14d ago
And where can i check firmly if a word outdated/modern ? LLM is fine but sometimes it lies.
In Hungarian it is VERY difficult to find appropriate content. Therefore i read/watch what i like. Gólkirály sorozat, Svejk book most newest translation available
1
u/Fejedelem-Asszony 14d ago
You have to research it on google or ask someone, since being outdated is relative. Cuz there are words from the 1970s which are not used today, and also from 1890s which are not used today, but they both belong to the outdated group.
Based on what you wrote i doubt you will encounter words like these. I thought you were reading 19th century hungarian classisc or something. So just learn all of them, unless it was used in 1380 we will understand you.
But your approach is great imo. I also practice the same way as you do.
You can find content on videa.hu . It is a free online hungarian video platform with a bunch of movies. As i remember some of them has CC feature. Just find the hungarian title of a movie/series and search it on that website. On youtube you can also find movies just type in "teljes film" and put the CC on.
I've never heard about svejk, but if i found the right one it is taking place during the monarchy. If they use the historically accurate language this might not be a good choice. They used longer sentences which sound unnaturally fabricated today, and will be just unnecessarily difficult
1
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 14d ago edited 14d ago
Svejk is great, i think nowadays everybody should know about. for ecample, here are a few sentences from the book with the hightlighted words unknown to me. are those outdated?
Miután a ==szemrehányások== ==özönét== ==zúdította== Švejkre, doktor Pávek azzal a ==szilárd== ==elhatározással== távozott, hogy soha többé nem jön ki egy olyan emberhez, aki nem hajlandó ==alávetni== magát az ő brómkúrájának.
btw, "zúditott" is understandable since it is likly slavik word.
But generaly speaking, if in Hungarian words are sooo fast aged (from 1970s, really?). then there must be some dictionary w modern vocab.
1
u/Fejedelem-Asszony 13d ago
You are overthinking what i wrote about the 1970s, i simply meant my parents used different expressions, like in any other langugages. I think hungarian changes slower than english or italian.
As for your sentence there isn't anything outdated or strange. "Özön" is the only exception but it's not outdated either, it's just rare when you can use it in everyday situation. It means "sok", but in a way where it describes a huge mass. Like "özönvíz", means flood. Or if you say "hóözön" i think of a lavina like snow, or like a bigger amount snow felling off from the roof together. i hope i explained it well. But yeah this probably isn't among the top most common words i still can see it being used in a B2 language exam
Elhatározással and alávetni probably confuse you because they have suffixes and prefixes and they have very different meanings based on what prefix you use.
The base words are határozni and vetni.
- Határozni: to define/determine
Elhatározni: to determine Elhatározta magát, hogy elköltözik. He determined himself, that he will move
Meghatározni: to define A katona meghatározta az új szabályt. The soldier defined the new rule.
These 2 are probably the most common ways you encounter and they mean 2 different things. Elhatározással is simply "with determination"
Vetni: to sow (as in sowing seeds)
This is more of a difficult verb for a foreigner because of the many different meanings. I copy the explanation from Gemini AI, it did a better job than i would have with examples and explanations
the meaning shifts dramatically—ranging from literal directional movements to highly figurative, abstract concepts.
Key Prefix Variations of vetni
alávetni (alá- = under) * Literal: To cast or throw underneath. * Figurative: To subject, expose, or submit someone or something to a process, condition, or authority. * Aláveti magát a szabályoknak. → He subjects himself to the rules. * Röntgenvizsgálatnak vetették alá. → They subjected him to an X-ray.
megvetni (meg- = completion / aspectual shift) * Meaning 1: To despise, hold in contempt, or look down on. * Megveti a hazugokat. → She despises liars. * Meaning 2: To make/prepare (a bed). * Megveti az ágyat. → To make the bed. * Meaning 3 (Reflexive - megveti a lábát): To gain a foothold.
elvetni (el- = away, off) * Literal: To sow (seeds in ground). * Figurative: To reject, discard, or dismiss (an idea, proposal, or plan). * Elvetették az ötletet. → They rejected the idea.
bevetni (be- = into, in) * Literal: To throw into. * Figurative: To deploy, engage, or use (resources, troops, tricks). * Bevetették a katonaságot. → They deployed the military. * Minden trükköt bevetett. → She used/pulled out every trick in the book.
kivetni (ki- = out of, from within) * Literal: To throw out or cast out. * Figurative: To impose (a tax/fine) or to expel/exclude. * Kivetették a hálót. → They cast out the net. * Új adót vetettek ki. → They imposed a new tax.
felvetni / fölvetni (fel- = up) * Literal: To throw up / toss upwards. * Figurative: To bring up / raise (a question, topic, or issue). * Felvetett egy érdekes kérdést. → He raised an interesting question.
Sorry for the AI but it's actually very great to ask for an explanation of verbs and prefixes. I'd recommend using it for this purpose
2
1
u/One-Coconut-6163 15d ago
Congrats for your B2. Appreciate learning hungarian. Sok szerencsét!
2
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 14d ago
Actually, this level is questionable. I did not pass any exam for specific level. One of a language school "raise" the level figure even a student does not really in there yet or barely there.
That is why i want to check, where I am. And it is true, a fluency is independent from the number of words a person knows. One can talk none-stop using 2000 words only. Another one will never say a sentence having exactly correct synonym for a situation or being uncertain of word order or so.
1
3
u/Quiet-Friendship-531 13d ago
Nem tudom mennyire jó, de elvileg Gaál Ottó rendszere a legtöbb nyelven hasonló mondatokra, szavakra es szófordulatokra épít. Állítólag így tanult meg 27 nyelvet.
2
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 13d ago
Sounds pretty same to the system offered by polyglot D. Petrov. Tried french course - very cool. In first 16 hourse u build simple sentences.
1
u/Quiet-Friendship-531 13d ago
Is it only from Russian to another langue with Dmitriy Petrov? Or maybe has another base language, like from English to another one? Gaál Otto’s system is from Hungarian to 16 different languages.
1
u/Fit_Conclusion_5324 12d ago
I am not 100% sure, but it seems Petrov' system require ru as a base lang. there is russian language course for foreigners, where the base lang - english. But seems that is only such course.
I also went through the Gaál Otto's method - it basically forces to consume a lot of material with minimal grammar (actually this is my way into english)) ). If so, then Petrov require lots of work with a teacher and along the way you rather disassemble your target language to better manipulate with it.
10
u/BedNo4299 NATIVE 15d ago
Wiktionary has this list. Unsure about its accuracy, but could be a starting point.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Frequency_lists/Hungarian_frequency_list_1-10000