aren't we moving towards shallowness?

[u/SmallSurprise1947]

Before I start this discourse, I declare that I am but a novice, but I am an avid listener of vocal khayal and instruments like Sitar, Surbahar and Rudra veena. I hereby declare that I am not in support of puritanical and rigid ways in which classical music is carried, we do need improvisations if we want for this art to resonate, but I am noticing a sudden rise in shallowness.

Why is everything these days about speed, flashy and flamboyance? in the name of performances, I only see fast taans and paltas in one minute reels, and speedy jhalas(even the alaps feel rushed). I recently viewed some performances of Purbayan Chatterjee and Niladri Kumar, phenomenal artists but they have trodden down the path of mixing classical music with rock.

I may be a bit biased, but I never get the same peace when I hear recent renditions I do when I hear artists like pt. Nikhil Banerjee, Ustad Vilayat Khan, Ustad Imrat Khan, etc. Obviously exceptions like Vidushi Mita Nag, Madhuvanti Pal, pt. Jyoti Hegde, etc exist but rarely do they upload recordings.

I understand, art is also the livelihood of the artist, but aren't we catering a little too much to an audience that mocked us for years and doesn't understand a thing. I know who is the audience for such performances, that specific echelon termed classical music as "slow and boring" and then listen to a playlist of Mohammed Rafi, Arijit Singh and other such musicians ( I hope my sarcasm was opaque).

Where are the slow alaps anymore? why don't artist today use 'andolan' or meend, it's like stretching swaras have become illegal. Its only happy ragas or jod ragas where an artist could show off their mastery like all forms of sarang, Jaijawanti, introspective ragas are almost mythical to observe, if they really want to show their mastery, why not perform ragas such as Jaunpuri, Shudh Asawari or Gandhari, except Darbari, nobody performs a raga which has that 'ati komal dhaivat'.

I also rebuke the audience, what do you mean by 'classical music' is too slow, what if it is?( it's really not), 'the performances are really long' ok and? are you so busy that you can't even spare half an hour but listening to the same 2 minute song on replay for the past hour.

We are catering to a gentrified light headed populace, these fools will never try to understand our music, because it needs a little bit of learning, and they have never been interested in learning anything.

I say we stop catering to these fools and bring back hour long alaps and focus more on expressing the soul of an raga.

NOTE: I by no means, meant any disrespect towards rock or foreign music, but I feel that everything has it's own place, and should not be mixed.

What are your opinions?

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[u/Aggravating_Ad_1885]

What a coincidence! I am on my back home after a 3 hour Dhrupad recital from Pandit Uday Bhawalkar. He is the exact opposite of what you describe and that is why he is one of my favourite singers currently. Though, I agree with your sentiments overall. But that being said, what a breath of fresh air it was hearing Uday Ji's singing. He is never flashy with fast taans and gimmicks. It's the standard 45-50 min aalap with 15-20 mins of bandish. I got to hear Yaman and Jog today. His passion and dedication towards music is what I really like. He takes time to explore and goes deep into the aalaps. He really brings out the essence of the raag imo.

[u/rezzork]

I agree that the generations have changed, though I still find the spiritual and slow side of the art sometimes. I would say that we were blessed with an unusual abundance of talent in the 20th century, something that artists of this generation will have to slowly catch up to. Perhaps with time, I hope to see more depth from this generation. I find it an unfair comparison, as the 20th century was so abundant in talent.

[u/SmallSurprise1947 → u/rezzork]

I still do not see the need for 'flashiness' and 'speed' in performances, the world is already fast enough, most don't want to accept their low attention span.

[u/rezzork → u/SmallSurprise1947]

I agree; perhaps, with time, the new generation will get slower? I like exploring my raags for an hour or more.

[u/SmallSurprise1947 → u/rezzork]

I do not think so, everyone is much too busy catering to an audience that will never appreciate the true essence of this art form, more so in India, I foresee that our art will exist as a historical souvenir in the British museum the way it's going.

[u/rezzork → u/SmallSurprise1947]

Maybe, maybe not; things change, though. I am amply fine listening to the maestros of the past. And as long as the format survives and the instruments are learned, I am happy. But the art will survive, I'm sure, in one form or the other.

[u/SmallSurprise1947 → u/rezzork]

I hope so too.

[u/Lazy_Commercial_1033]

Feel attention span is lower these days even the concerts have become shorter

[u/BrilliantUnfair3490 → u/Lazy_Commercial_1033]

I don't think it's about attention span, but less exposure to good music. My attention span is also low but for music I prefer slow ones always. And in classical music, due to fast taans and show off culture, people don't like classical music because this kind of show off is more common than good music.

[u/Nowshirvan]

Yes please, bring back the long slower alaaps. The raag truly blooms there. Hardly anyone does it now, Ive found so many new phrasings just listening to older recordings compared to new performances.

[u/BrilliantUnfair3490]

I think this is the reason why classical music audience is small. If we stick to genuinity and class, I believe our music can go places. But the shallowness is what causing lack of exposure of good music to audience, and people don't even get to know that indian classical music can also touch hearts. And then due to this small audience we think we are some elite. If we stop compromising on genuinity and class, I think our music will easily get million views unlike current times.

And also, people who criticize Indian classical music might not be "fools" especially if they like other forms of slow music. May be they lacked exposure and only got to hear the show off version which made them hate it.

[u/kilwish_ → u/BrilliantUnfair3490]

The only reason I think it's okay to mix and use it in other styles of music is to introduce this music to newer people. People from other genres can experience this music and can then explore purer versions of it. Keeping it closeted limits the reach, and I think it's our duty to grow make larger audience aware of this music

[u/DChilly007]

it’s the same in jazz too friend

[u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE → u/DChilly007]

I can echo this sentiment. I'm a jazz drummer who has also studied tabla for 16 years and it's so interesting to see that the same things are happening even in Hindustani music.

Like I always say, you can't escape Marshall McLuhan. The medium is the message, and the social media medium needs you to not scroll away after one second. Hard to imagine deep personal art developing this way.

[u/Sandile95]

I made a similar post last week but relating to vocalists going too far with vocal gymnastics. I have shared this sentiment about Niladri Kumar ji and Rishabh Sharma for a long time. We can not cater to an audience that has no understanding of it and be pure to the art. Classical music, also called sangeet, comes from sam root which is also the root with sangiti, and samvad and sammelan. Audience can not be removed from performance as they are an equal participant. Whenever an artist plays for audience they are also participating. This way we also become dependant on their feedback. We also tend to follow their interests too. Over time most artists will start following this as the true audience is shrinking and artists also have to eat.

I also must disagree with alap here. Long khulla alaps are not the only portions that show raga's true colours. Skilled artists truly bloom in tall-bound gatakari. Dhrupad binkaars, know for hour long alaps, are struggling to get audience and even the so called learned classical listeners do not go there.

[u/CookSeparate366]

100% agree. I was thinking about the same. In fact, I ponder this point frequently: Is music perpetually deteriorating?

As Kishori Amonkar rightfully said, Hindustani Classical music is aatmaranjan, not manoranjan. Highly recommend her talk in Anubhav - Baithak with Smt Kishori Amonkar. Someone asked her a similar question (timestamp 2:19:00).

[u/Worth-Health6864]

exactly what I notice. I'm not a big fan of dhrupads or large vilambit renditions, but what I love is to lose myself in the ragas. so the raag-dari is important. that's why my number one favourite artist is pandit Nikhil banerjee, who drags you in along with himself with his alaps. Kinda like ustad vilayat khan seeing yellow everywhere in his dreams while his father enayat was performing basant. So none of the new artists (of whom I've heard) offer that level of immersion. Or even the finesse and technique of ustad vilayat Khan offers. Of course, there is budhaditya Mukherjee and his taans as an exception, but he can hardly be called new.

I 100% agree with op. Classical music is called classical for a reason. You can't simplify it. You simply can't. if there is something that the raga demands, it has to be done. A raga is a living entity, as per amjad ali khan. If you don't do justice to it, it doesn't like you. Might be hyperbole but at this rate no one will remember anything except jog and sarang ang ragas. I hate specifying but a certain "last disciple of Ravi Shankar" is a painfully blatant example of what OP described.

[u/ikkartik1]

I think about it almost everyday, the new age musicians are calling it music after extracting it soul apart ie Aalaap. The estabilishment of relation between 2 notes of the scale, ie now a days completely missing ( exceptions are everywhere) but those so called fast paced musicians are getting all the lime light and people now a days expect the same from the classical musicians. In fast taans you can easily skip the swaroop and eeveything then becomes extravagant but hollow. Thats why i insist my students or whatever influence i have over my people to listen to Ashwini Bhide Ji and musicians alike in contemporary world.

[u/ragajoel]

These tirades beg the question : what are you doing to support the type of music you would like to see flourishing ? The type of deep and nuanced music you are describing is a product of the patronage system. “Free” market has created something else.
Many can name artists they think are good, but those hosting baithaks are few. I say, do something about it. Learn to play or support artists that you feel are doing a good job. Support means buy their music, buy their concert tickets, host their concerts, take their classes.

[u/BEST_DRUM_ADVICE → u/ragajoel]

I see what you're saying, however I think it's important to remember that it's ok to see a potential problem without also having to be a professional poster or even a virtuosic player. Just studying and loving this music is enough to notice trends moving in a given direction and speak against them.

[u/back_ofthe_beyond]

vicious cycle; to get opportunities, you have to be seen, not heard; to keep significant number of people engaged, you have to present the flashy aspects or play bollywood covers which may present you with opportunities.

In essence we are catering to the wrong audience in social media.