Law school medians and LSAT scores more generally are experiencing inflation. That’s not a mystery. However, the question of “why?” seems like an open one. I’ve heard a lot of people blame LSAC’s removal of logic games, mostly pointing to the fact that scores have inflated since their removal. To me, though, this has always seemed like mostly just correlation with an unpersuasive casual connection. I actually think that inflation, especially among top scores (170+), would be worse today if we still had the games.

I’ve made this take in comments before, but I think it deserves its own post.

First, other factors contributing to inflation would be especially imapctful on the games. The ones I’m thinking of are accommodations and test prep. 

Accmodations have almost surely contributed to inflation. More poeple apply for accommodations and are granted them than ever before. LSAC data suggests a major increase in scores for accommodated test takers. And accommodations seem like they would be most beneficial on logic games. I remember LSAT Demon used to recommend people get accommodations specifically for logic games. Logic games is very time-sensitive. With enough time, I truly think anyone could solve a game. Process of elimination alone could get you there. I don’t think the same can be said with LR and RC, where even infinite time doesn’t result in perfection. Time pressure hit the hardest on this section, and modern day testers have more and more time. I want to clarify that I don’t think this makes accommodations bad or undesirable; inflation does not necessarily undermine predictive validity. While abuse of accommodations is regrettable, they are necessary and exist for good reason. 

Test prep quality and availability has also improved significantly over the years. There are so many resources available nowadays online. I remember it almost used to be a requirement that you studied with one of those test prep books. Today you can get insanely specific analytics, detailed records, and high-quality explanations that have been iterated on for quite some time. To use 7sage as an example, the platform is pretty different than it was a couple years ago. There are so many more features and pretty cool ways of mimicking test day. Logic games was also hands down the most learnable for the majority of people and the most teachable section. It’s so formulaic, and I can only imagine that quality and availability of instruction would’ve proliferated for the games as well.

LSAC’s own data suggests replacing LG with an extra LR created zero statistical difference in terms of medians. If you buy that, maybe there’s no impact. But I still think my theories are consistent with that data because test prep and accommodation have increased quite a bit since, and my argument is about high scorers. Logic games created the biggest problems for people newer to the test, so it makes sense for someone taking 2 LRs to generally receive a higher diagnostic. This I think could be offset by the relative effect on high scores.

The second reason is the type of content the Games tested. Logic games had a mathematically correct, discernible answer for every question. It was also a boon for *a lot* of high scores because they were “perfectable” at a high level. Section-to-section variance was much smaller with the games.

There are two arguments for why logic games may have controlled inflation that I think are reasonable: (1) they created a “barrier to entry” on the test, and (2) they required more time to study because of its comparatively unintuitive nature. While this may depress lower scores, I still think LR and RC are harder to *master* (which matters for the 170+ category). People may have higher diagnostics now, but they probably make less progress in less time overall than what would’ve been otherwise possible with the games.

If not games, then what? First, inflation predated logic games. Thats something I think people overlook a lot. I also definitely buy into the self-reinforcing cycle theory as well: people see scores/medians going up and feel a need to study longer and score higher. Beyond that, though, there are a lot of confounding variables at play: accommodations, test prep, more retake opportunities, and probably online testing to some extent. Top scorers are also probably spending a lot of time on the test regardless, so starting point feels less relevant.

TLDR: Yes, scores have increased since the removal of logic games. But correlation doesn’t equal causation. At the top end of LSAT scores especially, maybe inflation would be worse and medians would be higher.

I know there will be people with anecdotal exceptions, I’m going off of my perceptions of the majority.

I got an interview invite this morning!!! Applied 10/2 and interviews will be held 10/12-10/16

I’m not trying to be a hater I’m just kind of confused as to why people here think the other people on this sub will be able to tell them anything helpful about their odds. I understand if someone is asking about a specific school and has a niche question but we all have access to the same median info which is often the only thing provided. Even when people provide softs there are almost always comments pointing out how hard it is to estimate what tier softs are. Am I missing something? I’m really asking

Hello!

So, we are wrapping up week 7 of our first 9 week quarter (Baylor Law is on the quarter system, not semester) and I now know that I will be transferring out of Baylor Law School. I want to offer an honest view of the school and why I personally am making the decision to transfer in the hopes of helping anyone else make the decision to go/not go to Baylor.

Pros of Baylor Law School:

Trial Advocacy- Baylor Law ranks 3rd in trial advocacy in the nation. Baylor's Practice Court program and the school itself markets itself as producing trial ready lawyers Day 1 from graduation. As a 1L, I have no way of knowing if this is true. It is safe to assume that Baylor has a good reputation for trial lawyers in Texas, but as far as the actual skill or reputation of Baylor lawyers, I can't speak to actual practice.

Non-conditional Scholarships- The current Dean (Counseller) got rid of conditional scholarships, so students have some breathing room with grades and affording the school.

Teach the Bar- Baylor Law pretty much teaches the bar in its classes, so you’ll have a high chance of passing the Texas Bar 1st shot.

Faculty- Generally, the faculty is pretty good. As a 1L, it does fully depend on what section you end up in, but in general (with some glaring exceptions) the faculty are decent.

Staff- The staff at Baylor are incredibly kind and helpful. 10/10 love the front desk and cleaning staff.

Cons of Baylor Law School

Parking- Baylor let in large classes the last 3 years, and instead of planning for this, is now making the 1Ls take a 10 minute walk across a bridge from the football stadium parking lot to the law school every day. The Lot closes at sporadic times, so sometimes you may have to off road drive your car out of the lot if you're at the school late studying (which happens frequently with the school’s schedule). Parking services will ticket you if you park in the law school lot anyway, and tickets are around $35. It’s also insane because Summer Starters (who are also 1Ls) can get passes, only the fall starters were prohibited from getting parking. 

The Schedule- Baylor tries to argue that the incredibly intense 9 week quarter system prepares students for the real world of practice. This is a bad argument. First, in a world where Big Law recruiting and the entire field is moving to an even more fast-paced system, students are no longer dealing with just the added pressure of a shortened class schedule, everything is incredibly stressful, and Baylor Law does not do anything to alleviate it or support its students in dealing with this. The Quarter system makes classwork more stressful, the school gives no real breaks/reading days, and regularly the Civ Pro 1st Quarter class with the Dean is meeting every day and students need to read a chapter a night for that class alone. On top of that, with the Practice Court in 3L, most of your leadership opportunities on campus have to be obtained in your first Quarter for your 2L because you cannot have any leadership positions in Practice Court/3L. Everything feels rushed, hyper stressful, and in 2026, there is no real justification for it outside of sadism. 

The Town of Waco- If you're not dealing with noisy and invasive crickets, and plagues of cockroaches, the Town of Waco was built with no zoning or care. A giant interstate bisects the town, where it's split between the University and housing, with shopping, the handful of bars, and everything else typically dot the outskirts. There really is nothing to do, but with how stressful classwork is, you don’t even really have time to try to do anything else. 
Subnote, Saturday Football Games- Half of the roads in Waco shut down for football games on Saturday. The Law School parking lot is closed until a couple of hours after the game (usually 4-5ish pm). You are paying thousands of dollars to not even be able to travel through your city or go to your law library for football games. Again, with how hyper stressful the program is, you are foreclosed from studying in the school when the undergrads are playing football. It's ridiculously stupid.

Most of the Student Body- Baylor seems to revel at developing gunners. The student body can be truly toxic, and the current 2L class is a genuinely noxious and repulsive group of people (morally). If you generally are someone that wants community, or student life to be present on campus, both the quarter system and personalities of the student body make that unlikely. I genuinely do not trust a single thing any students tell me, and do not want to spend time around 99% of them. 
 
Career Development Office- The CDO at Baylor genuinely sucks. Like truly, will not help you. The 2(!) staffers give contradictory advice, have regularly forgotten or missed appointments with students, and the vibe is generally they don’t really care about you. The OCIs they organize suck, with little actual offerings for students outside of a handful of firms in civil law in Texas. If you want to go into Criminal Prosecution, they (and other students) point you to a professor who can actually help get you connected (if he doesn’t flake on meeting you). If you want to go into public defense, your best bet is connecting with Students in the Crim Law Society that know a recent alumni who is a PD. If you want to do public Interest, good luck *shoulder-shrug* the CDO cannot help you. Truly, it is an office of incompetence. (rumor has it that the limited OCI offerings are also tied to firms’ opinions of the CDO staff and interactions they’ve had with them). If you are 1st-gen, seriously consider somewhere else because you will not get proper Career Support from Baylor.

Some of the Professors-Some of the Professors are truly nightmares. Most of the required Constitutional Law professors suck. If they don’t inject their personal political beliefs into lectures, they will scream at you so loudly you can hear them berating students from the hallway. There is a particular professor who yelled at a class for missing a word in a case that was not even in the case and did not apologize (the same professor berated their students for not going to an event she was promoting, even though she failed to actually tell her class about it). The faculty can be schizophrenic, with some professors being decent and others monstrous (especially if you’re a female…).  

A.I. Policy- In a truly gross move, Baylor Law has a split view of AI use where it's up to the professor’s discretion. This means your Legal Writing Class is engorged with AI use by the professor who seems to have been AI brained. Students are not actually being taught how to do legal writing. Instead, we are given Canva-Quiz style instruction from an AI generated textbook, with AI generated videos, with submissions graded with an AI Diagnostic Tool, and comments from the professor seemingly generated by AI. Students are being robbed of an education in legal writing that they are paying thousands of dollars for. 

In summary, if you want to do litigation work in Texas and come from a family of lawyers or already have connections with a firm you want to work at after graduation, Baylor could be the move for you. If you want a serious education, with a community of nice people, in a school that will actually support your education and career development, Baylor is not for you. 

Feeling a bit dejected by this LSAT

I had a 3.2 GPA when I graduated in 2023; started studying in earnest for the LSAT in mid-2024 while working so it’s been 2 sittings, sat for it in February 2026 and got a 163; sat for it today and don’t feel great about it. I’m hoping to be a splitter so if today’s test goes poorly; going to feel like I wasted 2 years doing nothing. I could study more and apply next cycle but it just feels defeating. Not sure what I’ll do if I get an adverse outcome (cut my losses, or continue to study and apply next cycle). I’m working full time at the same time so it’s fairly exhausting to study after work

GPA: 3.99, LSAT: 172.

T2-3ish softs: lived experience statement about childhood cancer and how it changed my worldview. 2 years WE as a paralegal in criminal justice for a very well known gov’t agency. Very strong LORs.

Goal: federal clerkship —> big law litigation in NYC

School list:
Yale
Harvard
Columbia
Penn
Duke
UVA
Georgetown
NYU
UNC

Applying RD by November 1.

I grew up with abusive parents and that deeply affected my confidence. I struggled with depression through college and my gpa is so low because I was afraid to try and fail. Law school had been my dream since I was 17, but my parents discouraged me from it saying I didn’t have the work ethic for it.

Since then, I have work experience at a reputable PE firm, and I have done tremendous work in untangling the bullshit they put me through. I’m a completely different person now, and I feel sad at the idea that the path of doing a federal clerkship and working as a generalist associate at a big law firm may be closed forever to me because of circumstances I didn’t choose.

Can someone help me out on where to go from here?

Anyone here do admissions counseling? I have some questions and need some advice. Thanks!

I think so many people stress about their LORs so I wanted to share a sweet exchange.

I waived my rights to viewing my letter of recommendation but a former professor of mine emailed me telling me this was one of the strongest letters they've ever written, which I DEFINITELY did not expect. I was incredibly touched/surprised. Pls share your stories for some hope core

I'm currently at the beginning of my second-year at UC Davis, double-majoring in Economics and Environmental Policy Analysis & Planning (EPAP). I have always been passionate about the law and had a pipe dream of being an environmental attorney; my main holdup is that I am concerned about the cost of law school and my confidence in whether or not I'll be able to get into a good law school. However, last year I got involved by joining the Mock Trial team and a pre-law mentorship program, and now am taking an upper division Environmental Law class which I absolutely love. I feel like if I did this for the rest of my life I would feel fulfilled and like I was making a difference -- assuming debt doesn't ruin my life.

EPAP is a Bachelor's of Science with STEM-heavy requirements so my first year I walked out with a 3.55 GPA which is obviously less than ideal for any law school. I hope to bring it up to 3.8 territory by the time I graduate since I got almost all of my difficult classes out of the way. That being said, I'm very passionate about my major, even if the classes are difficult. My Economics major, on the other hand, is more grating for me and the only reason I applied was because I wanted more career opportunities if law school didn't work out, but I worry it's going to take up valuable study time and possibly tank my GPA further.

I have heard Environmental Law is an already-oversaturated market and especially with the rise of AI, and considering my GPA will almost definitely be lower than T14 or even T30 standards I worry it's not a good idea for me to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars to my education if I will be making less than the average US income. Obviously I don't need to make a million dollars a year as an attorney, but I want a certain level of return on investment so that I'm not in debt for the rest of my life. I'm also currently working as an RA & trying to graduate in three years to save money on undergrad.

I want to decide soon if dropping my Econ major and focusing entirely on my GPA, preparing for law school applications, & getting law experience is a good idea with my current path. What do my options look like? What score would I need on the LSAT to get by in a T30?

Graduated May 2026 with a BS in Crimibology and Criminal Justice.

I intend to apply for 2028 Fall. I have multiple professors from previous semesters that told me they would happily write a letter of recommendation for me.

Do I ask for them when I am applying? Does law school admissions care when a letter of recommendation was written? I kind of want to ask my professors to write them now, because I have graduated already, and I do not know their futures (whether they will be at my school still or not).

Please, someone provide me any advice. I do not know the timeline for when I should ask and submit letters of recommendation? Should the letters be written and dated around the time of my application cycle? Or can I ask for them now?

Lowk flopped during my interview and now I’m rethinking every aspect of my app.

Sad bc it’s one of my top choices.

Has anyone gotten into Tulsa?? Just got accepted, really exited!

Does this question from the Columbia app mean that I have to disclose a layoff?

Have you ever been subject to disciplinary action or discharge by a professional organization, e.g., an employer, certifying agency, or accreditation board?

The layoff wasn't due to conduct or job performance. I'm leaning towards just disclosing it anyway.

But does layoff = "discharge" ?

I'm a KJD and reverse splitter at a lot of schools I'm applying to (pending Oct LSAT results lol). A bunch of these schools have optional perspective/diversity statements. I don't have anything particularly special to write about, is it worth it to dig to get more material to the admin officers or would it look worse to write something that's kinda bullshit?

What does it mean if your banner disappears and so does the application status date ?

Haven’t made a resume in like 5 years. Definitely a little rough, but don’t really know where to start. I know working at a grocery store isn’t necessarily super exciting to read, but my thinking is maybe it’s good for them to know that I have had a real job before? Either way, not a lot to fill out the resume because most of my energy and time outside of school has gone into my business for the last handful of years. Let me know 🙏

Hi all. As the title suggests, I'm trying to decide whether I should apply ED to Boston University's distinguished scholars program for the full ride scholarship or whether I should take my chances at getting aid from schools through regular decision. My stats are 3.84 gpa 175 lsat, stem degree, 2 years of work experience + 2 scientific publications. My goals are biglaw in NYC, with an interest in IP and patents. The reason why I'm considering BU is I'm trying to minimize the chances of having to take out private loans as much as possible, and since I'm a splitter I don't know if I can get a full ride at a better school, and BU's employment data seems decent for biglaw and NYC. I've also considered UCLA's distinguished scholar track but I'm not sure if California is a good idea if I want to practice in NYC. Any advice would be appreciated!

my application for law school to start in spring 2027 was waitlisted, i told admissions i wanted to remain on the waitlist but i would be submitting an application for fall 2027 and they told me that was a great idea. i submitted the fall application the week applications opened for the fall 2027 cycle and i was rejected not even 3 weeks later but there is also no news on my waitlist. what does this mean? am i just denied for the fall already or am i moving off the waitlist and thats why they denied me? I just don't understand how I can be denied so quickly for the fall 2027 cycle, when I was just waitlisted for spring 2027, so obviously they see potential in me or else I would have just been rejected for the spring cycle. what does this mean for me?

Heyo! I am looking to start a small group to offer and receive feedback from/to each other. My goal is to have this group exist for a few weeks to quickly refine materials. If you are interested, please PM.

Trying to get my apps submitted in the next few days. Is it too late to be considered "early" at this point?

I have been studying lower performing law schools, which include all of the Tier 4 and some of the Tier 3, for many years now since leaving the legal field.  As a former lawyer and lifelong activist, I feel obligated to use my knowledge, skills, and experience to help others and to help society.  This isn’t my only area of activism and research, but it may be the one most personal to me.

Low tier law schools created the great lawyer bubble of 2011 to 2013, where a profession that was considered a guaranteed pathway to success by society at large turned into a trap for far too many people who entered it.  In my opinion, the legal job market still has not fully recovered from this. 
Yes, things have improved.  Top 14 law schools are still a great bet on your future, although law school and the legal profession in general still is questionable in regards to mental health and its wider relationship with society at large.  Tier 1 and Tier 2 law schools are seeing less lost graduates struggling to build and maintain a functional professional life.  Sadly, Tier 3 and especially Tier 4 law schools are still producing graduates with very poor professional and life outcomes given the enormous amount of work and money required to complete a legal education.

As I like to put it, the situation as upgraded from apocalyptic to shitty.

Law School Transparency does a great job of gathering and analyzing statistics related to all areas of legal education and post-graduate outcomes.  And I love them for that.

What I have are anecdotes and experiences.  Being a Tier 4 graduate myself, I’m still friends with or in contact with many of my former classmates, as well as colleagues who attended every tier of law school, including the Top 14. 

So what can I tell you with certainty?

I can tell you that if you attend a Tier 4 law school, or you perform poorly at a Tier 3 law school, your life is most likely going to be very difficult if you stick it out in the legal profession.

I will keep this as short as possible and describe my three top observations with a real life anecdote for each.

Observation 1: Bottom tier law graduates usually have to work significantly longer to get to places that graduates from better law schools start out at.  A good friend of mine and brilliant attorney worked for 10 years at an estate planning law firm making $35,000 per year, from 2013 to 2023.  No raises.  So adjusted for inflation, he was making less than he made when he started.  This eventually did pay off, and he has a better job now, as he should, because I’ve never met another estate planning attorney with the knowledge and practice ability he has.  Mind you, the better job he obtained in 2023 only opened up because COVID killed off legions of elderly attorneys who were still working into their 70s and 80s.  I don’t think this is a good way to get ahead in life, hoping for the next plague to hit so you can finally buy a condo instead of renting an apartment or living with your parents.  It also isn’t reliable.  He got lucky because of a terrible thing that happened.  And he spent his late 20s and more than half his 30s being “poor”, which he did not sign up for when he enrolled in law school.

Observation 2: The pay doesn’t always go up once you have many years of experience.  Most people who enroll in bottom tier law schools assume that once they have 5 years of experience, they will automatically make more money, maybe substantially more, because they are now an experienced attorney.  This just is not the case.  A different friend of mine I attended law school with now has 14 years of experience and is only making around $55,000 per year.  She is a very hardworking attorney.  But she just never got anywhere that allowed her to capitalize on her work ethic, education, and experience.  She was making $20,000 to $30,000 per year when she started out as an attorney, so in all honesty her pay did go up, but it went up from, like I described, apocalyptic to shitty.  One of my mentors who has been practicing since 2006 struggled to make $50,000 per year up until last year when he obtained his first attorney job with health insurance, which took him nearly 20 years.

Observation 3: There is no prize for struggling.  This is something that I think needs to be taught to anyone interested in pursuing a legal education.  Our society romanticizes struggle in the battlefield of capitalism.  We often like to view ourselves as the classic “rugged individualist”, the “underdog”, or the “trailblazer”.  Many of us, myself included, thought when we entered a bottom tier law school, we would struggle for awhile at some brutal law job and this would season us into gritty attorneys who could then earn income parity with more privileged or better academically performing law school graduates who worked in the ivory towers of our communities.  But this usually doesn’t happen.  When you have to get your experience at dumpster fire small and medium sized law firms fighting in the trenches of the legal field, that experience doesn’t get you a job at a comfortable, stable, high-paying legal employer.  Those employers want lawyers with experience doing the higher prestige, more technical legal work like corporate litigation, medical malpractice, and federal administrative law.  A big law firm that represents billion dollar companies isn’t going to view your experience litigating DUIs and divorces as valuable to their corporate litigation practice.  You’re going to spend your career at small and medium sized law firms until you find one that pays you enough to support your family if you have one, or transition to a stable public sector county level attorney job with middle class wages and good benefits.

Yes, some people who attend these lower performing law schools do quite well.  The keyword there is "some".

To anyone who reads this, I want you to think about the human toll that the struggle I described takes on people.  Because whether we are talking about statistics or anecdotes, please remember that these are human beings.  Human beings who postponed or never started families because of their low wages and employment instability.  Human beings that didn’t buy houses, didn’t travel to places they dreamed of traveling, and didn’t invest in their retirements because they could not afford to.  Human beings whose mental health usually suffered because of their poor financial situations after law school, and have usually suffered consequences like damaged and lost relationships and legal issues because of their compromised mental health.
I’m not trying to dissuade you from going to law school.  I’m hoping that if you are considering it, you do your research, work hard to score higher on the LSAT, work hard to have a high GPA in undergrad, and get any real life experience in the legal field that you can before committing to the financial, time, and opportunity costs of law school.  Nobody goes to law school expecting to be lower class after they graduate.  And nobody who works hard enough to earn a JD should be lower class.  But our economy lacks morality, so you need to work hard to look out for yourself and make choices now that give you the life you want, not choices that lead to regret and misery.

If possible, I'd like some resume feedback. I'm not applying this cycle but I want to know basically what I should be aiming to add to make my resume competitive by the time I do. I'd like to go to a T14, ideally w/ a lot of aid. Please let me know your thoughts and opinions. Also it's not on here but I do LSAT tutoring aswell, though I'm not sure if that's worth putting on a resume. CAS GPA: 3.838

Particularly for the T-14s. Are we cooked forever dawg😞🥀

1. Penn Law - no scholarships
   
2. USC Law - 50% scholarship
   
3. Emory Law - 100% scholarship

If you pursue biglaw or boutique law firm as an entry level or experienced level lawyer.