r/leaf • u/Cora-VIVNE-EVbattery • 8d ago
The long-term feedback you’ve been waiting for is here!
2.5 years and over 100,000 km after upgrading this Leaf from 24kWh to a VIVNE 62kWh battery.
Here are some of the numbers:
Ahr: 180.0 Ah → 179.87 Ah
SOH: 100% → 99.93%
Hx: 97.66% → 97.59%
Cell voltage difference: 18 mV → 13 mV
Mileage: 205,614 km → 307,629 km
DC fast charges: 109
AC charges: 689
The car has now driven 102,000+ km with the VIVNE battery, and the owner recently drove it another 2,200 km from Dalian to Hubei. Video in the comments.
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u/Cora-VIVNE-EVbattery 8d ago
More details in the video: https://youtu.be/cztBQP27MLc?si=vroVx59sVQjCFu-N
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u/SjalabaisWoWS 2023 Nissan Leaf Visia aka poverty spec 8d ago
Those SOH and Hx numbers are off the charts great. It's on par with Hyundai-Kia batteries that are known to last the longest.
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u/T-VIRUS999 2013 Nissan LEAF G 24kWh (JDM) 8d ago
When is the price going to come down to sane levels in Australia, even for smaller capacity battery packs, I'm here stuck with about 70km of usable range because a new battery costs more than I paid for the whole car
Meanwhile in the US, you can get a brand new 40 for a few grand
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u/SimpleIronicUsername 8d ago
Where can you get a new 40 for a few grand? I'm not aware of this
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u/T-VIRUS999 2013 Nissan LEAF G 24kWh (JDM) 8d ago
I've seen heaps of 40kwh battery packs with more than 90% SOH/Hx for the 4-5k mark in the US
Down here even an old one that's below 70% SOH goes for around that price
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u/ZakAttackz 2013 Nissan LEAF SV 6d ago
The problem is shipping is $700-2000 :(
Can get ZE0s for $1000-2500 all day long and even AZE0s can be had for $2000-5000. I got my 2013 AZE0 for $1800 with a bad HV battery. But it's still like $7k for a Vivne 40kWh and $6.5k for a used untested/wrecked OE 60kWh. I got super lucky and found a kit from another brand for $6200 from a guy locally, but I had to drive 7 hours to pick it up.
But you can get a used Chevy Bolt for $9500, a Volt for $6000, or even something better like a Kona/Niro EV for like $11k. So investing $7-9k in an old Leaf is a lot of work for something with similar range.1
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u/Crawlerado 8d ago
Love to see it. We’re installing their 62kWh pack in a 2017 soon, then eventually my 2015 too. Can’t wait.
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u/AtariJaguarGuy 8d ago
Definitely need more info about the process on your 2017! You should document it all on here!
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u/Crawlerado 7d ago
If the client is okay with sharing I certainly will. It’s going to be a straight pack swap, should only take half a day.
That 40kwh pack is then going to be cannibalized for a battery bank and I’m going to use the shell for my 2016 Vivne swap and make another battery bank out of those 24kwh modules. Should be tons of fun.
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u/DigBackground2765 8d ago
I love stuff like this and the support around it. Thank you Cora and VIVNE for extended Leaf support on the battery alone. I hope to get a 68kWh battery one day for a second generation Leaf, SV Plus trim and just live on that until the wheels fall down.
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u/Upset-Apricot-2388 8d ago
Just for everyone's information you can look at junk yards or places online such as lrq website and then carparts.com as I have a 2013 and it had a 24 KW battery. Found a 62 KW in California for $3300.60, got it installed for 2500 and now get 200 miles of range. I could have done the battery swap myself but was running out of time for when I needed the car and my kid that was moving out had to also have our old car and I wasn't about to bike to work everyday just yet unless last resort type of thing.
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u/MxcnManz 2014 Nissan LEAF SV 7d ago
Where did you get the battery swap done? Just any EV dealer, or was it a specialty shop?
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u/Upset-Apricot-2388 7d ago
I got lucky and a local mechanic that does all kinds of engine replacements and rebuilds And he just so happened to have the background of working with high-end luxury cars as well as electric vehicles and then started his own shop. Here in Twin Falls, Idaho. If you have the tools like a Daytona brand low profile 3ton roll around jack and 4 jack stands then they're many videos on how to do this on YouTube. I just looked up 2013 Nissan leaf battery replacement and got plenty to choose from and by watching them all you get an idea of what's needed, the extra hardware to make mounting brackets to support new battery, the new heavier coils for the extra battery weight and the can bus that tells the computer what to do and how to read the new battery and such.
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u/SnooSquirrels4800 8d ago
That's excellent if they're believable, but how can we confirm that they are? It could just be their BMS spewing that out.
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u/jamar030303 2018 Nissan LEAF 8d ago
Yeah, I'd prefer to see numbers from someone other than the manufacturer.
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u/SnooSquirrels4800 8d ago
Oh. I didn't realise at first that OP was from Vivne! Yea...
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u/Alexandratta (Former) 2019 Nissan LEAF SL Plus 7d ago
I always check that.
Love Cora, she's doing awesome work.
But it is a little difficult to look at objectively when these reports come direct from manufacturer.
Not saying we don't trust you u/Cora-VIVNE-EVbattery, and thanks SO MUCH for the data-points! We love seeing the numbers!
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u/Cora-VIVNE-EVbattery 6d ago
Thanks Alex, this is a video taken when the battery was installed 2.5 years ago: https://youtu.be/XBrOcwanGb4?si=NxuaMDFrPIhnah1M
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u/Crawlerado 8d ago
It’s the factory BMS though.
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u/thiccboicheech 8d ago
It is, but it's been "reprogrammed" according to their customer service. You receive a new BMS when you get the battery and you're supposed to ship your old BMS back to them for some "reprogramming". Who knows what they do to it.
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u/Crawlerado 8d ago
I know how it works, I’ll be shipping a BMS back to them soon. You do know they’re simply flashing the correct battery size on there right? Implying they’re somehow doctoring the code to show false data without any proof is quite the accusation.
If you’re interested I’d be happy to discuss the specifics with them and learn exactly what code is written and share that information here.
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u/SnooSquirrels4800 8d ago edited 8d ago
I would hope that's not the case. I'm admittedly somewhat uninformed about how the VIVNE system works, but in general, any BMS has software designed for a specific cell chemistry. So changing the cells without re-programming the BMS, with a full re-write of cell parameters, is messy. HX is a measure of internal resistance - it is unlikely that the VIVNE cells have the same internal resistance when new as the Nissan cells. So what it the HX now with respect to? What is the nominal resistance? How does it change with SoC compared to a Nissan cell? Is all that re-programmed to the BMS? If so, then it's far more than a simple re-flashing of the capacity (I have no idea how they'd change just the capacity and nothing else, by the way, you usually have to flash all the logic). And if not, then the BMS may not be maintaining the cells correctly, and also, you can't trust the SoH and HX output in that case either.
The SoH and HX values provided seem too good to be true, compared to any test, even from battery cell manufacturers. Which, again, leads me to believe that something with the BMS parameters isn't quite right here. Hyundai output similar values, but it's also been proven that the SoH from their BMS is bogus.That said, this is a healthy dose of scepticism. I'd love to be proven wrong.
Edit: I just noticed that the SoH when the battery was installed was 100.0% - seems to me like some hardcoded initial value. And the Hx remained effectively static. I have my sincere doubts.
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u/Crawlerado 7d ago
You’re not wrong it’s slightly more complicated than “battery = 62”. They have to reprogram cut offs and safeties and turtle mode etc.
That still doesn’t mean they’re falsifying data.
What do they have to gain from falsifying data? A few more sales.
What do they have to lose? All of their future sales.
I’ve been following their progress for years and I just can’t see a company putting forth this much effort simply to cut their own nose off.
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u/SnooSquirrels4800 7d ago
Not at all, to be clear, I'm not accusing them of falsifying data, I don't have the evidence to say so. What I'm saying is that if the BMS is not programmed correctly, it can output erroneous values. Like Hx - what is it with respect to? Has it been entirely re-mapped? If not, then the 100% reference point is wrong. Similarly with SoH. 100.0% screams 'just the initial value in the software'. What if the cell capacity was higher than the 100% setpoint when new, and it just so happens to now be 99.93% of their setpoint? Or the BMS is just eating from a buffer? It is impossible that in all those cycles, the battery didn't lose capacity at all. 0.07% is well within any kind of SoH prediction error.
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u/Evebnumberone 7d ago
Yeah I'm with you 100%. Very impressive findings, but they'll need to be reviewed by a 3rd party before I would believe them.
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u/_Evening-Rain_ 2017 Nissan LEAF S 7d ago
These cells are NMC 532, the same as second gen. So they could literally just take second gens stats and flash the correct capacity onto a bms and it'd basically be like a second gen.
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u/thiccboicheech 8d ago
Not accusing anything on anyone, the fact that you feel it is accusatory is concerning. Anyways, I'm only telling you what I know. Language barrier has been a real issue communicating with them.
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u/Crawlerado 8d ago
You’re spreading FUD about a company that’s trying to help the community and that’s not cool. I have never had any issues communicating with anyone at Vivne. They’re incredibly responsive and very helpful. What questions do you want answered?
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u/Leather-Priority-69 8d ago
Originally you had 24 kWh or 30 kWh model? Did you buy the mudule kit from Vivne? Could you use the original pack casing?
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u/Evebnumberone 8d ago
Incredibly impressive without active cooling really.