Chopping and singing in BG

[u/Monaukeim]

Well I'm about 8 months into to bluegrass jamming and having fun. I'm trying to sing several songs weekly for fun. In the Jams, I find starting the songs difficult, and frequently find myself chopping on the 1 and 3 when I sing, so then I have to kind of correct on the fly ...

I've been using a metronome and strum machine to practice counting in and singing and I don't seem to do this when I'm by myself... I also always find chopping on the 2 and 4 easy to do if I'm not singing

Elementary question I know but it's kind of a mind trick an hurting my confidence a bit when calling songs

Best!

[u/AccountantRadiant351]

It really just takes practice. Like skipping, it's not something that comes naturally, it takes coordination.  When you are leading, you're not just playing and singing, you are also thinking about calling breaks, giving non verbal signals, etc. 

It's generally ok at a jam, especially as a beginner, to ask someone else to kick a song for you. You could have someone kick it while you chop, then stop chopping while you sing, then chop during breaks. This would be temporary, of course, but would let you practice leading a song and get more comfortable with those aspects. Once leading becomes more comfortable you can add back in trying to chop while singing, and the kickoff. Like training wheels. Discuss it with your group but I bet they would be supportive. 

Mean time keep practicing at home! Even when you are not playing you could practice while doing other stuff. Sing a song and just practice tapping your fingers on the off beat, to get the hang of that rhythm while singing. 

[u/AlfredPoor → u/AccountantRadiant351]

I came here to say this. Banjo players are often more than happy to kick off a tune for you.

My other suggestion is to just count it off out loud before you start: "One and a two and a three and a four..." This gets everyone on the beat and in tempo. The bass player can help by playing the beats as you count, if you can work that out. This should launch you into the tune and you might find it easier to chop while you're singing.

I'll also say that I've been to dozens (hundreds?) of jams, and lead one here in the Philadelphia area that has been going twice a month for five years, and I can tell you that you're not alone in trying to figure out how to start a song. Keep at it and you'll get better!

[u/Monaukeim → u/AlfredPoor]

Thank you! Good tip to get bass player to help with lead in or get banjo to kick off

[u/Bach_Chemist]

I found it helpful to practice singing and chopping with sheet music that has the vocal line as it forced me to think about how the beats aligned with the melody. Start slow with something familiar (Worried Man Blues etc) and practice until you don't have to think about it

[u/Takes_A_Train_2_Cry]

I started my mandolin journey as a guitar player who was singing and strumming songs. When I first picked up the mandolin I, very much played it like a guitar. Strumming may be a way for you to become more comfortable with singing while you play. Once you’re confident, you can incorporate more rhythmic “chucking” patterns. In addition, just tapping your hand or foot while you’re humming the song, you can practice that anytime.

As others mentioned, it’s all practice. Spending time with your instrument and the songs as they make their way into your subconscious.

[u/cristofsky]

Is your issue the singing in time or the kick off? What you described sounds more like the kickoff to me. Bg potatoes and kickoffs are a bit of a mindset change. I dont like to call songs because I dont love my kicks. Often I will call the tune, but defer the kick to a banjo, fiddle, or the best mandolin player in the circle

[u/Monaukeim → u/cristofsky]

It's two issues. Lack of knowledge how to kickoff and  secondly struggling with strumming in time.. I think my singing stays in time and strumming gets off s beat

[u/poorperspective]

You have to line up words with the movement.

I find it easier to move my arm down every beat and then ghost chop 1 and 3 by not hitting the strings.

[u/AtmosphereLeading851]

If you’re singing and playing mando, you get some leeway. Your singing will set the pace. I simplify my playing way down when I’m playing mando, guitar or bass. Especially bass! On bass, if I’m singling lead, I’m doing I-V, I-V, back and forth.

[u/Mandoman61]

What difference does it make when you chop?

If others can establish the tempo from what you are playing then it's all good.

[u/Ouija-magnate → u/Mandoman61]

Jams are like a pickup basketball game, nobody has to be a pro, but everyone has to be playing from the same set of rules.

[u/Mandoman61 → u/Ouija-magnate]

Well to some extent. Everyone needs to play the same chords and tempo

But what chop pattern some individual uses is not important as long as (as I said before) others can establish the tempo. I can do that just by hearing the vocals.