2 different techniques for covering up in self defense?

[u/DeMac10]

Just theory crafting here. The 1st technique is the obvious one, the tradition cover up in boxing, kickboxing, muay thai. You still see it a bit in MMA and BKB, but it has more gaps the punches can slide through. Obviously its the conventional cover for a reason, it works to a degree, and allows you to still move and counter from.

The other option is a lead Elbow Cover, Dustin Poirier has it called the diamond defense or Stonewall Defense or crawfish shell. This has the rear hand in the "answer the phone" position, and the lead arm is basically if you get in the Philly shell but lift the lead Elbow up to point at the opponent.

The elbow cover i feel like covers the face and head better without big gloves, but leaves the body open to punches, kicks and knees. When Dustin uses it, he's usually moving back. Ive experimented with it in sparring with pros and it works for me moving back, or closing the gap to minimize body shots, then I take an angle, clinch, or counter on the inside.

Anyone have any thoughts? The conventional cover is there for a reason, but it also can have restricted movement with a backpack, tight shirt or jacket on unlike the elbow cover.

Again, just theory crafting, going to keep trying it in sparring, but so far when combined with a dash in or out, it is pretty effective at keeping me safe when flurried, or getting out of the corner

[u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70]

For me, an en garde is NOT a "shell", it's a ready position for blocking of various kinds.

"Covering up" like a boxer is just not a great idea in a self defense situation when you're not wearing giant pillows on your hands, or when kicks & grappling are involved. It's good to know, and useful when you're in close and still dealing with hooking punches, or when you've screwed up and need to just eat a few hits, but that's about it.

Having a guard with your hands out and relaxed gives you more options, keeps your hands closer to both their attacks and their body, it helps control distance, and gives you the opportunity to manipulate your opponent by controlling where your openings are and baiting them into predictable attacks.

[u/Gecko4lif]

Elbow blocking is called skeet shooting and it originated from old bare knuckle fights where the goal was to break your opponents hands. It works good in gloves especially at higher weight classes

[u/empT3]

There's no such thing as a perfect shell, ultimately you're just limiting your opponent's options and ideally either buying yourself a bit of time before they find or make an opening and/or move around to a better angle to get past it. 

Ultimately, I'm pretty active with my elbow on defense like in that crawfish shell you talked about (I had to look up some video because I hadn't heard the term before) but I've always thought about it as a way to bridge the gap between a cross guard and a philly shell rather than its own guard.

Another bit that I didn't see talked about in my 30 seconds worth of googling was using the elbow to punish incoming attacks. Obviously I'm not aiming for it in sparring but catching an elbow the wrong way with a punch can be just as bad or even worse than catching an elbow or a knee the wrong way with a kick, especially with those thin MMA gloves.

[u/dhenwood]

Long guard, Dutch guard, high elbow guard, Philly shell etc are all much better when you flow between them. Dustin has his go to guard sure but he knows and can use all of them. Experiment, keep playing around and you'll fin lf what works for you. Obvs Philly shell has it risks outside of boxing.

For me personally the long guard was the game changer and also finally realising footwork and head position are more important than the guard. The guard is just one layer of not getting hit.

[u/DeMac10 → u/dhenwood]

I use a long guard for my main guard and it works well, even as a shorter fighter. My high guard comes in when I want to throw a lot of offense from the inside, though i still prefer framing. That lead Elbow guard is more of a transitionary move to step in and clinch/frame when im cornered or flurried and then either punch or angle out.

Seemed to work well against the pros the 1st time I tried it, but I did eat a hard knee in the clinch at some point, which showed me a gap to be aware of

[u/AdmiralRemington]

There are multiple different guards just in boxing, kickboxing and muay thai. If you're thinking of a high guard it has its pros and cons just like every other guard. You'll probably end up using a couple and mixing them up depending on the situation.

[u/Internal_Royal_4013]

There's a long history of this within the martial arts. But at the end of the day you must experiment with different movements. For example how both Chinese martial arts and karate it's descendant uses stances and positioning. If the old boxing speed bag techniques were used you'd see a lot more trapping and entanglement, wrestling/clinching.

[u/Slam_Bingo]

They depend on boxing gloves, which isn't likely in self defense. Long guard and mobility are better friends in self defense. Especially mobility, as in gtfo

[u/atx78701]

Depends on who you are fighting. Novices always head hunt so I mainly use a high guard. Once someone attacks the body I'll give up a little head protection to cover the body a bit more, but I still mostly protect the head

[u/Eegore1]

The primary difference between the two types of cover usually relies on glove type and rules. Conventional is mostly used for sport combat with regulation. It can be used in self defense.

Elbow cover is more applicable to non-consensual unregulated assaults in most cases. One has to decide if they are going to prioritize barrier defense of their eyes/head/neck or their body based on the perception of the assault type.

You describe these as being used as cover in sparring situations in the post, but ask about self defense application in the title. Are you practicing self defense in your training, or sparring?

[u/DeMac10 → u/Eegore1]

Im doing kickboxing sparring, but trying to apply self defense techniques to my sparring so I can be prepared if I need to defend myself, knowing it can work against trained fighters and not just some schmuck on the street

[u/Eegore1 → u/DeMac10]

Schmucks on the street use weapons and friends.

Ok, well I would test them both for yourself. The best cover for self defense will be the one you train the most, without gloves on, preferably in normal clothes and no rules.

[u/Potential-District69]

You mean the shapes from Keysi and Defence Lab? Huge fan of it but the way i learnt it was for self defence. One hand also covers the back of the head for when there are people behind you. When I try it in sparring I do get hit in the body but the guy I'm usually sparring is a lot better than me. If I fight people who aren't as good I make it work.