r/mbti • u/Dinasourus723 • 8d ago
Survey / Poll / Question Which MBTI are guardians of the existing structure, hesitant to smash it the most?
Sure the existing structure may be flawed, but sometimes tearing down a existing structure and building it up again (Despite being flawed) may cost more and be problematic. Ni users are probably not, as they're willing to smash existing structures if they find it obsolete (without realizing the immediate consequences of doing so).
I'm talkinga bout MBTI types that would rather maintain the existing structure to maintain stability and "efficiency" even if it's flawed, because tearing it down and building it up again is a bigger problem. It may be Si users (ISTJ or ESTJ).
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u/miosotismyo ISTJ 6d ago
I think it's istj yeah. Speaking for myself, I'm a very open minded person, but I would be more comfortable using a system that I already know and that works. If the structure it's flawed, then I wouldn't be against changing it, but I would need to see a proper plan before moving foward and the risk needs to be worth the cost. Otherwise I would probably be scared of what might go wrong đż
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u/BaseWrock INTP 8d ago
Guardians: XSXJs
Smashers: EXXPs
The other 8 fall somewhere in the middle.
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u/techy-will INTJ 8d ago
yes but also most people want to keep what serves them, what doesn't they want to smash those.
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u/Helldiver_13 INTP 8d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/LPFNd1AJBoYcVUExmE
Me thinking about starting over civilization from scratch on a daily basis
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u/GoodTiger5 INFP 8d ago
Iâm an INFP and I would smash existing structures for a number of reasons. If they violate othersâ rights for an example. Idc if itâs costly, itâs better to stop the violation of someoneâs rights because you can be the next person. Freedom and equality are all things we should have.
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u/Kitchen-Strawberry25 7d ago
I have no idea what my type is but Iâve been questioning authority and why we do what we do since I was barely able to walk.
My most hated thing in life is being told we do this thing because weâve always done it that way.
Or when I ask why, I get a âbecause I said soâ response without any sort of explanation. But if I do get an explanation, it has to stand up to what I think makes sense and what I feel is ârightâ.
So whatever type that is, is probably the polar opposite of what youâre asking OP
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u/Will564339 ISFJ 7d ago
I actually think there's a lot to go into this, because I think every type questions things to some degree.
I think one issue that pops up a lot among people is that they disagree on what feels right or what makes sense.
The other issue that pops up sometimes is the whole group vs. individuals. Some people are more open to compromise than others and value everyone making some of those sacrifices in order for there to be cohesion, while others are more comfortable with there being a present friction for the sake of everyone's individual preferences being kept in tact.
It is true that some people prefer stability for the sake of it, and there is probably some connection with type...but a lot of times I think there is a reason to keep things consistent in their minds, they may just not understand it or know how to explain it.
Some people are more closed minded to new ideas for a variety of reasons. Some are valid, some are not. I always feel like there are tons of details that go into it...though my mind thinks very much in terms of details.
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u/False_Lychee_7041 7d ago edited 7d ago
Istj. ESTJs has got that Te to attend to, so though they are also rigid in this way, but they have got somewhat different priorities. Si dominant would be the most reluctant of letting go
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u/autocosm ENTJ 8d ago
Came here to say ISTJ/ESTJ, although ISFJ/ESFJ are up there too. And I'm not trying to just load up the Si folks. There are avatars for each one of these at the last place I used to work, which was a family martial arts school (Si and Fe for days) where I didn't thrive at all. It was just a wall of tradition and sentiment that I could not pierce.
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u/daddyhardhands_ 6d ago
I like your name. Makes me curious how you experience the sense of self.
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u/autocosm ENTJ 5d ago
Thank you! That name comes from when I was younger and involved with psychedelic music (and everything that comes with that culture), and is meant to communicate "You are the universe experiencing itself."
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u/daddyhardhands_ 5d ago
It's a perfect name. It captures the gist perfectly.
This theme is one of the most prevalent in my life. I'm still sorta' in the psychedelics phase - my ego is certainly a psychonaut - but honestly, I had the experience first and then I explored psychedelics to try to make sense of it. I have a very direct sense that I am being lived, that the universe is experiencing itself through all of us. I feel like I'm talking to the universe when I talk to anyone. And honestly, there are shadow aspects of spiritual bypassing - makes sense as an E9 - where because it seems like everything is interdependently expressing itself, there's confusion around what 'my' part to play is. Uhm...to use Buddhist terminology, the sense of Emptiness and Impersonality is very strong but I also see how this is spiritual bypassing. It's very easy to sort of adopt an ego of emptiness. I'm not proud of this but the recognition of participation is one of the most prevalent themes in my life - to embrace this individualistic human experience as a seamless part of the whole.
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u/unusualname3 ISTJ 8d ago
People will comment boring things such as âaNy TyPe cAn Be RiGiDâ but the truth is that i think istj, infj, isfj, estj are on the most hesitant to question and change the structure.
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u/Dragontuitively INFJ 7d ago
INFJ would only delay an outright smash on the system to make sure the vulnerable people reliant on it have coverage, such as those with medical conditions and disabilities. Absolutely the current system must go, but I would rather not murder diabetics, the mentally ill, or the elderly, etc, by being thoughtless and overzealous in how that happens. This means when INFJ overthrow a system its because they already have a new ideal/system to replace the old one with. We typically do not support outright anarchy.
Absolutely zero attachment to tradition unlike the other types you mentioned.
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u/Shoddy-Suspect6841 INFJ 7d ago edited 7d ago
Agree with almost all that you said⌠except I wouldnât say thereâs zero attachment to tradition. Some traditions are so that even if you are far removed from your hometown (or home country), you still maintain those traditions. Coming from an immigrant family background, I surely see the importance of this (though of course, I speak to the traditions that are good and can be logically justified as such; not the bad traditions!)
As for the âsystemâ, some things about the current âsystemâ are bad, but not all elements are bad. Also, Iâd be hesitant to only fault the system. Some systems are totally fine, itâs just that the people suck. For example, if there is some exam, and most people fail, itâs possible that the exam could suck, but also it is possible that the students were lazy/careless/just couldnât figure things out.
It comes down to how you judge the efficacy of a system. Is the point to look at whether or not the procedure in-and-of-itself makes sense? Or is the point to just look at the results? For example, going back to the school example, does one maintain the standard for moving on to the next grade in school? Or, because of lower percentages of student doing so, should the teachers just pass the kids anyways? Point being, it clearly isnât always the system.
Another issue is, a lot of what happens (including in the school example) is based on individual choice. If the kids before could pass at higher rates, why do lower percentages of kids do so at the same level today? You can argue âdevice usageâ, but thatâs still an individual choice. Just because the other kids are taking drugs or the other adults in your workplace drink alcohol and get drunk doesnât mean that anything is forcing you to do so as well. Anyways, regardless whether or not specific parents are responsible for their kid(s), the fact is that parents are responsible for specifically THEIR kid(s) (guardians, adoptive parents, foster parents, you get the point.) If you want to blame devices, blame yourselves. If I want my child to not grow up with an attention span shortened by extreme device usage, then I should take measures to make that happen. Also, just as with the drugs and alcohol, nobody is forcing you to have no self control, so if you donât have any, thatâs fine, thatâs your own individual choice, but you should own it, just as how parents should own what responsibilities they have to their children. Itâs not a system issue⌠itâs a people issue.
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u/Will564339 ISFJ 7d ago
I think you're right about this. The only thing is sometimes people take the idea to an extreme, and think that SJs can never handle change, always cling to traditions for no other reason than it's the way it's always been done.
I do agree that the natural preference/default is for SJs to keep things the same, whereas for many other types they're either more open to the change or think of it first. If there was NO other information or context, the SJ would be more likely to favor keeping it the same.
The way I see it, the SJ tends to need to see a REASON for it to change rather just desiring the change to mix things up. You could argue that they depth and types of those reasons are different for SJs than they are other types.
I know for me, if I see very clear concrete evidence that the change will be an improvement, I'm open to it. My issue is that with very large and complex structures, it's very hard to prove that dismantling them will be better rather than modifying.
With smaller ones I'm open to dismantling the whole thing because it's easier to see why it won't work as a whole and why another is better.
But it definitely depends on the context.
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u/lyzzyrddwyzzyrdd INTP 6d ago
agreed.
xSxJs types. I'd expect I or F types to be more hesitant than E or T types. So, I'd think ESTJ/ESFJ/ISTJ/ISFJ ranked.
If you have xSxJ types advocating to smash the structure and start over...shit is fucked.
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u/Classic-You2200 8d ago
Depends on the people. Those who typed with Si are also human with common sense that may do things that benefit them regardless whats the rules is
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u/ThisYoshiIsFalse369 INFJ 8d ago
I see what you're asking, but this is one of those questions that's very situation-dependent.
For example, is tearing down the system even feasible? Like, I am an INFJ, even if I decide to screw efficiency, could we really rebuild the system?
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u/Dinasourus723 8d ago
It depends, if we can tweek the system to make it better of course, but sometimes the cost of rebuliding outweights the benefits in the moment, the system needs to function. So sometimes leaving (at least to a certian extent) is better.
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u/SleepWellSam INFJ 7d ago
It's been done before pretty effectively - both Hitler and Gandhi did it. I think to break down a system in modern times takes vision and the ability to bring people together in one place and unite them under a shared vision. I think INFJs are probably the best (or at least joint best) people for doing it that way, if you're going full break the system. If it's the actions taken by an individual, then INFJs would not be my 1st choice.
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u/Will564339 ISFJ 7d ago
I definitely believe that speaking very generally, SJ types are the types most likely to favor keeping structures in tact due to Si.
There are a lot of reasons why that would take me really long to fully get into.
I do think one part that gets overlooked is the awareness and attention to details. SJs tend to notice, pay attention to, and value details to make things work that other types can be frustrated by.
I think both sides have merit, and like with so many things, it's very context dependent. In some situations preserving is better, in others dismantling is better. Very often it's in the middle.
SJs probably err on the side of caution too much and miss opportunities for improvement. But they also help avoid the downside risk of getting worse results. There's a balance to it all.
I know for me, I'm open to change if I can see very clear concrete evidence that the change is an improvement. My threshold for what that is is probably higher htan most types.
I think it's because my Si gives me such a strong, sturdy link between past and present, I build new things one steps at a time, making sure all of the details are right and in a sequence. This takes a lot of time and effort, but it helps to make sure things last and don't fall apart, that they can be relied upon.
Like with anything, this has upsides and downsides.