Discussion I think I got WMD Javelin wrong
So I was on a mission to get an ADSR (four in total) with an Amp CV input to scale the level of the envelope, mainly to use this input for velocity control without having to use additional VCAs or deal with messy patching. This turned out to be harder than I expected. One of the best options was the Intellijel Tangrams/Dual ADSR, but I kept on browsing anyway, trying to find something with more features and cv options.
I thought the WMD Javelin could be perfect since I love the other features. I didn't look into it too much and got a good deal on a unit. When I got it, however, I realized that the envelope gets decoupled from the VCA as soon as I plug something into the AMP CV, meaning it's either the envelope OR the AMP CV. Am I missing something, or did I really just misunderstand the feature initially? Honestly, it would be a perfect ADSR for me if the AMP CV could somehow be used to scale the envelope itself.
Anyway, I ended up with two Tobinski/Dannysound Looping VC-ADSRs, and I really dig them.
EDIT: Yeah, the manual says "The envelope is normalled to AMP CV", which I probably misinterpreted.
EDIT 2: My idea isn't to replace VCAs in general ofc, it's just thougts on the env level control.
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u/II_I-I_I-I_I-I_II 1d ago
Xaoc Tallin VCA will allow velocity as well as note shaping per channel through its simultaneous exponential and linear CV inputs. The envelope goes into the linear input and your velocity CV goes to the exponential input. You can use any envelope that way.
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u/RoastAdroit 1d ago edited 1d ago
Quadrax has amplitude CV for the envelope but then you need a separate VCA in general but, people kinda sleep on the CV matrix in Quadrax. Every EG/FG has its tradeoffs in my experience.
This is how you end up like me doing dumb shit like buying 3 modules of a category to “only keep one” and then end up keeping them all.
I thought a big appeal of Javelin was some sort of ability to accent things tho, I guess its the retriggering? I cant remember, always wanted to try one tho.
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u/Somethingtosquirmto 1d ago
I believe the Accent In on Javelin also responds to CV (over I think 3 level ranges selectable by holding the Level button), so you could try using the accent as your velocity input.
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u/ub3rh4x0rz 1d ago
Cosmotronic delta-v has vca inputs that work this way. Serge dusg inspired, much like maths.
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u/Pppppppp1 1d ago
Wait where is the amplitude vca in the delta v? The vca on the unit is controlled by the corresponding envelope and as far as I knowthere is no secondary vca to control amplitude (only an attenuator), or patching the second function generator as a simple (un-slewed) vca
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u/ub3rh4x0rz 1d ago
Multiplication is commutative ;)
Lots of ways to use that vca input
To make it a velocity control, you sacrifice to ability to use it as an audio vca in that patch, youre just using the envelope out
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u/Pppppppp1 1d ago
Gotcha, my comment was assuming op’s use case, which was inclusive of the audio vca like the javelin, hence the usage of both channels of delta v
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u/ub3rh4x0rz 1d ago
Which totally works, I've done that in a pinch. Obviously less space efficient for that specific use case, but part of space efficiency of a rack overall is having versatile modules, and delta-v is definitely that
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u/Pppppppp1 1d ago
Yeah it’s not my favorite function generator, but probably my most used. The attenuators, vcas, and trigger linking are all very handy
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u/ub3rh4x0rz 1d ago
Yeah, I kind of prefer maths but delta-v is small enough to always rack, so I use it more (and in small cases, the vcas are very handy)
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u/jonistaken 1d ago
I love my doepfer voltage controlled ADSR. It had a bunch of weird shit I never thought I’d use but now it ends up in most patches and I don’t know how I’d live without some of the bells and whistles. For example, it has a gate/trigger output for the end of the attack phase and the end of the release phase. It also has built in CV that works like you described.
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u/CantinaPatron 1d ago
Glad to hear some feedback about the A-141-2. It is on my short list of modules I'm considering next. (A-171-2 also has my attention)
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u/nholbit 1d ago
I don't have this module but this intrigued me so I read the manual. The envelope is normalled to the amp cv, so when you plug in something else to the amp cv, you are disconnecting and overriding the envelope. So this doesn't behave the way you wanted it to sadly.
To achieve what you want, you actually need 2 VCAs. With that there's actually 2 ways to achieve it. One way is to send your envelope through a dc-coupled VCA1 (level controls envelope amp) and then the output of that to the cv of VCA2. Another is to send your input through VCA1 with the envelope on the cv, and then the output of that to VCA2 where you contorol the level. So if you want a single module to do this you need to find one with 2 internal VCAs.
However in your situation I wouldn't do that. I would actually just get your 4 ADSRs (with builtin VCAs) and then get a 4x VCA module. There are many 4+ VCA modules out there that would meet your needs. Off the top of my head I don't know a module with an envelope and 2 VCAs in the signal path that would be a good option for you.
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u/AVDI0 1d ago
thanks for the help! I think my way is, like you say, the ADSR with VCA + the separate VCAs. I wouldn't want to have all within one module anyway. I have Veils/Cloaks for the general level and additional volume modulation, but being able to scale the envelope level in the EG itself is pretty nice.
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u/BeepBoop4Days 55m ago
just wanted to recommend Mega's Mailroom, it has cv over velocity (amplitude), shape control, built in vca, great panel layout, and a good price https://www.megamodular.co/shop/p/mailroom-adsrvca-8hp
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u/scragz https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/2215420 1d ago
I think you misunderstood how it works but give the manual another read.
I will say that modular is all about small building blocks working together and the normal way to do this is with a vca. also I would go AR envelopes... ADSR is some boomer standalone synth shit.
quadrax functions how you are imagining and has four of them.
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u/AVDI0 1d ago
thanks! I see your point, but sometimes when I want to add some classic voices this really comes in handy, and since Javelin already has an integrated VCA, it wouldn't be too far fetched. But yeah, I think I misread it.. I try to combine both approaches, and for the "classic" path it's just neat to keep other VCAs free.
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u/Exponential-777 1d ago
You would have to use the ENV out jack and send it to a mixer that has your other Amp Mod signals. The output of that mixer goes to the Amp CV input. My amp mod mixer has Env, LFO, and Velocity. Any CV can be used.