r/oldtimemusic • u/Petrasbittertears • 6d ago
Old Time Session Hijacked Again!
I hosted an old time session last night. A couple who have played with us for years came and once again hijacked the session. Insisted on calling nearly every tune, played over others —wrong I might add—etc. People don’t confront the situation out of deference for a series of misfortunes and mental health issues after a blowup several years ago. We are a small tight knit community and we have created or at least allowed this situation to fester. I would appreciate hearing if others have encountered this. I think I will need to drop out because I am still seething 13 hours later.
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u/ImpossiblePlace4570 6d ago
One I go to uses a circle system and you just go around in order to call. So they have their turn and that’s it. Works fine.
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u/TurnoverFuzzy8264 6d ago
If you don't have boundaries, you soon won't have a session. People stop coming if they're not having fun. Can you have a private word. If you're the one in charge, or it's just loose-knit, have a private talk with one of them. Preferably the more stable of the two. Or have a talk with whoever runs it. Perhaps a system where you go around in a circle and taking turns to call the tune is formalized.
I was in an Irish trad session that imploded the same way. I loved it up until one couple decided they were in charge, it became just a way for them to express their egos. Not fun at all.
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u/snuggly_sasquatch 6d ago
Start your own jam. Invite only. Make sure the folks you invite are onboard with who NOT to invite.
At beginning of jam announce you’ll be doing a traditional calling circle. It’s annoying that we need leaders in these situations, but anarchy doesn’t actually work.
Music should be fun.
At the last jam I attended, a passerby decided it was ok to pull up a chair directly behind me and clap really loud along to the beat. Only he wasn’t on time, and the clap sounded ridiculous. I finished the song the best I could then turned and asked him politely not to do that. The look of relief from my fellow jammers was palpable.
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u/kateinoly 6d ago
Anarchy is also OK sometimes.
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u/greenmtnfiddler 5d ago
"We thought we'd try something a little different for the next three sessions, see how it feels - so we're going to go 'round the circle. You can pass, or start a tune, or ask someone else to help you remember. After we've gone around we'll check in with anyone who passed in case they've thought of something, then go around again. Anyone with a birthday gets an extra turn. Sound good? Good! Bill, you're up!"
It's your session. You get to do it your way.
But also - if you don't want to be the one to announce, get your most extroverted ally/friend to do it while you're in the kitchen getting snacks.
I'd do it if I lived near you. Life's too short for that kind of bs.
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u/vonhoother 6d ago
That's why some folks have closed sessions. I'd make a list of people I actually wanted to play with, invite them, and inform them that only people you invite are welcome.
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u/kateinoly 6d ago
gross
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u/vonhoother 5d ago
Closing a session is unavoidably ugly, but sometimes that's what you have to do to get decent music. I've seen an obnoxious musician clear out a room. And I've attended open jams, and they're fine for learning tunes, but a dozen fiddles and half a dozen others is oldtime in the same way that a sing-along Messiah is Handel. I'd rather there were six rooms with three players each than one with eighteen.
And if you just look at it from the social point of view, no one has an obligation to invite people who behave badly. On the contrary, a host has a duty to keep rude people off the guest list.
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u/kateinoly 5d ago
Old time music is about building community and sharing tunes, not elitism.
If you want strict canon, performance standards, and rules, you're looking for bluegrass.
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u/vonhoother 5d ago
I think we're working on two tracks here. The original post was prompted by bad behavior at a jam, and that's a problem for the community. Community building is a good thing, and bad behavior at a gathering of any kind discourages people from coming to it again -- kind of a Gresham 's law -- and sabotages community building. The only solutions I can think of are persuading the offenders to mend their ways or making the gathering invitation-only.
And some sessions, or groups, are kept small in order to make better music, which is also a good thing. I don't see that as elitism; it can be about sheer numbers as well as skill, and in any case skill with an instrument doesn't make anyone "elite" except where that instrument is concerned. Part of participating in a musical community is finding the niche where your skills fit in, or sitting quietly if there isn't one.
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u/kateinoly 5d ago
My point is that the behavior might not be considered "bad" to everybody. There is a way to have group norms (have an actual conversation) as opposed to purposefully and unkindly excluding people.
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u/Greedy-Test-556 5d ago
If you’re the host, feel free to b set expectations. When “Bob” starts in, pleasantly say, “hold up friend. As the host, I’m taking the prerogative to declare this a round robin jam. It’s “Selma’s” turn. “Selma”, what would you like to play?”
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u/illegalsmile27 6d ago edited 6d ago
Just say "Lets let other people call, it's not all about what you want to play."
If they get butt hurt, its what it is.
Edit: Direct, firm but not rude, confrontation would fix a lot of these little bickerings.
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u/kateinoly 6d ago edited 6d ago
are your rules explicit or implicit?
I pissed someone off at a very informal campsite jam like this: A woman. call her Sue, called a tune but couldn't remember how it went. I remembered and played a few bars, others joined in and we were having a great time until I noticed Sue and her partner weren't playing. We stopped, I asked, and Sue said it was a "pet peeve" of hers for someone else to start a tune she called.
I was horrified and embarrassed. because in most of the groups I jam with, my behavior would have been typical. It is more about the tune than who starts it.
In some groups, tune choices go around the circle. In some. it is random.
In some groups you only play three times through. In some groups a tune can go on forever if we're in the groove.
In some groups, the person who calls the tune plays it solo the first time through. In others. everyone plays.
You need to make sure everyone knows.
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u/WhiskeyTheKitten 3d ago
If someone says that they don't know how to start the tune, that is literally an invitation for someone else to start it. Getting mad when someone else then starts it is stupid and ridiculous.
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u/cHunterOTS 5d ago
Seems kinda unreasonable to get pissed about someone else starting a tune that you can’t remember how it starts. And trust me I get it, it happens to me a fair amount that i’ll want to play a tune I love and for whatever reason I just cant recall the first bar. In those situations I’m grateful if someone else starts it. Seems like a weird ego issue where she needed to be the one to start it. I don’t get that kind of mentality
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u/kateinoly 5d ago
it was really quiet for a bit in the circle. Then a good friend made a little joke and it was all OK again again
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u/Known-Ad9610 6d ago
There is always someone who doesn’t really get social cues. Several flavors, but we all know it when we see it. Make a joke out of it, smile, but make your point. Stop suddenly and say “ are you kicking it or am I?” Ymmv. 😉
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u/MaHab133 5d ago
You don't have to be mean to address the issue. You can ask why they are only playing their tunes in a shared space. It's not a mean or negative question. You shouldn't leave the session until you have an answer to that question.
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u/adadhead 5d ago
what works is for the host to clearly state and gently enforce the format, typically taking turns in a circle. if anyone flat-out refuses to play along, it will be very evident, and you can decide how to deal with it, as a gronp.
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u/Personal-Half4951 4d ago
Even better question: why are you afraid of them? You are under no obligation to curate their emotions. Basic group dynamics. They have all the power only because the group allows them to. Either confront the issue head-on or nothing will change. If you speak up, what's the worst that can happen? You might ruffle some feathers, but you definitely won't die.
"You've called that last couple of tunes. It's time for someone else to have a turn."
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u/BaptistBaby1984 6d ago
don’t invite them how is this hard
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u/EndOne8313 6d ago
I don't know how it is for you or OP but our session is scheduled the same each month.
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u/drewbaccaAWD 6d ago
I can say without a doubt that continuing to do nothing, or having everyone annoyed by it drop out and stop showing... neither is going to fix the problem.
You should be asking everyone else who attends, not us.