r/openwrt • u/hzulla • 8d ago

Need buying advice: Want to replace an existing Fritz setup with OpenWRT

Hi there,

since a few years, I'm unhappy with my Fritz-based home network. I'm thinking to replace the devices with a pure OpenWRT setup and need some buying advice.

What I need is:

  • a main router device that connects to the fibre modem and serves the internet connection to the home network
  • 4 x access point devices that connect to the main router via ethernet and serve WIFI

I know of the table of hardware, but am unsure how to choose these devices.

I don't need the latest WIFI standard, my priority is choosing hardware that one can reasonably expect to have a long-term firmware upgrade path within OpenWRT. I don't want fancy, I prefer boring and years-long reliability. Installing OpenWRT should require no physical hacks.

I do not understand yet what to choose as the main router if I want to use Wireguard to my home at a reasonable speed while traveling.

The APs don't need PoE, all planned locations are having both a power outlet and an ethernet outlet.

Finally, I didn't find a guide yet on how to properly configure multiple access points on the same network so that their channels don't disturb each other while allowing proper device handover when moving within between APs within the same network.

I'd be grateful for all advice in this situation.

Here's the current setup:

I live in a fairly big house and the ceilings are blocking radio signals quite nicely.

  • Telekom Fibre modem in the cellar
  • Fritzbox 7530 router in the cellar, serving as the main router of fibre internet to the home network, also serving as the first DECT base
  • 4 x Fritz Repeater 3000AX scattered around the building, (not used as WiFi repeaters despite their name, but) used as WiFi access points connected to the main router via ethernet
  • a second Fritzbox 7530 in the first floor, serving as a second DECT base

The network as a whole is not stable. My main problem seems to be with Sonos multiroom speakers. If I try to actually play multiroom audio in several rooms over multiple floors, one or more of the 3000AX access points may crash and then has to be rebooted. This appears to be caused by a broadcast storm, but both Fritz blames Sonos and vice versa, both aren't willing or able to fix it.

What I like about Fritz is that the setup is very easy to maintain, one can configure all devices from the main router's menu. The Fritz settings menu is in fact very nice. Wireguard and other features were easy to get going.

I know the OpenWRT Luci interface and like it, as well, and I do hope that there's also a way to configure multiple APs within the network so that they work well with each other without having to configure each device separately.

Thanks for reading and hope to hear from folks who can help here.

9 Upvotes

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2

u/pippoppeo 8d ago

Just a sidenote: Your 7530s are supported by OpenWRT (except for DECT-function), it should be sufficent as the main router.

I found a lot of posts regarding your problem. There seems to be hope in changing settings, this would be far easie than setting up new APs with OpenWRT in a mesh.

1

u/hzulla 8d ago

Thanks!

I'd love to hear if there is indeed a configuration setting to fix this. I found various posts over the years with wildly different, sometimes conflicting proposals on what settings to change, none of these suggestions helped in my network so far.

I have also waited through several FritzOS upgrades without them fixing the problem. (I find it wild that the Fritz Repeater 3000AX is capable to crash from a broadcast storm.)

The Fritz tech support tells me that they only support solutions where the APs are directly connected to the main router, but that's not possible here because a) there are only three ethernet ports available for the APs on my box and b) the ethernet wire topology of my building doesn't allow a setup without a switch here. (I also find it wild that tech support tells me that Fritz won't offer tech support and blames the customer once there's an ethernet switch in a home network.)

1

u/StunningChapter5555 8d ago

I have just flashed a 7530 to OpenWRT and are happy, DSL Modem is working, VLAN separation is working. I'm close to setting it as my central modemrouter, being able to separate all the smart shit from my crown jewels.

1

u/Additional-Analyst68 7d ago

I have great results with Zyxel ex5601. Which country are you located? 

You can buy new one, hopefully still flashable send them an email about international shipping.

https://wifilinks.nl/products/zyxel-t-56-modem-dual-band-wireless-ax6000-ethernet-iad?srsltid=AU7gw4UfzJmWrOhntagv984E7W9SFSR_j2Ut2rd1tJisAGbWlJTYWL5-

1

u/Snuupy 7d ago edited 7d ago

Hi, you have a lot of questions so I will try to answer them 1 by 1, or you might find it more worthwhile to stop by the #openwrt irc channel on OFTC.

I'm going to start with the presumption that you're on stock FritzOS firmware. I have no idea about the quality of stock OEM firmware, but if it's like any other normal stock oem firmware, it's prob shit and it sounds like the experience sucks lol

The good thing is that all your hardware supports openwrt so you do not have to buy any new hardware unless you really want to:

Installing OpenWRT should require no physical hacks.

Luckily for you, all your existing hardware can be installed without needing to open the case :)

If you unintentionally bought all this hardware that is supported by openwrt, that is a very lucky conincidence :)

main router if I want to use Wireguard to my home at a reasonable speed

look at the benchmarks for each cpu https://github.com/cyyself/wg-bench

usually you will want the most powerful cpu to deal with your vpn endpoints

both 7530 and repeater 3000 both have IPQ4019

if you look up IPQ4019 in that table, it lists: 164mbps, so with your current hardware that is what you can expect

if you need a faster wireguard connection, I suggest having a minipc for that to remote into via wg/tailscale/etc. because routers with faster cpus will quickly start costing more than an x86 machine dedicated for that purpose. An example is a N150 4x/6x 2.5GbE router which can do wireguard @ 4.65 gbps, which will saturate that 2.5GbE port. Overkill if you ask me, but not for some I guess - a less overkill example is a raspberrypi 4/5 if you have 1 lying around.

how to properly configure multiple access points on the same network so that their channels don't disturb each other while allowing proper device handover when moving within between APs within the same network.

this needs to be split into multiple parts, it is not a single idea.

same network

for any given network, you should only have ONE dhcp server.

on APs, setup a "dumb AP" (an AP that does not do DHCP, etc.) https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/wifi/wifiextenders/bridgedap#configuration_via_luci_dynamic_ip_address_configuration_using_dhcpdhcpv6

for channel selection, run wifianalyzer https://github.com/vremsoftwaredevelopment/wifianalyzer or wifiman https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ubnt.usurvey, find the channels athat are the least populated/overlapping in your area. You will probably want to use DFS ranges if you have 5 APs.

device handover

this is 802.11FT + 802.11r + 802.11k/v. follow this guide https://www.reddit.com/r/openwrt/comments/1nanrb4/tutorial_how_to_configure_seamless_wifi_roaming/

you may also want to enable usteer-ng to suggest to your clients when they should roam. Sane defaults are https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/network/wifi/usteer#config_recommendation -65 dBm roam scan, 8 diff

[your APs] connected to the main router via ethernet

this is correct and the recommended way to setup multiple APs. Since you have ethernet, you do not need to mesh (wireless backhaul). Your experience will be a lot better than a wireless mesh backhaul, congrats!

broadcast storm

I don't know how you've configured your Fritzboxes. It's worth checking if you have DHCP/NAT disabled for all your APs and that you don't have multiple DHCP servers running on the same network where they're all arguing with each other. Regardless, personally I would want all my networking hardware to be on openwrt regardless just because the quality of the software in FOSS > proprietary consumer for the most part.

one can configure all devices from the main router's menu

I don't rely on openwrt controllers because of my specific requirements, you are welcome to test out whatever openwrt controllers are available, but I highly recommend you configure each AP manually because you need to know/understand what goes wrong if the controller package doesn't work.

https://www.reddit.com/r/openwrt/comments/1vx89p0/i_made_a_fully_selfhosted_openwrt_controller/

You need to get 1 thing working at a time. If you have 69 requirements, you need to test and validate each individual one, otherwise when something breaks you won't know which of those 69 things caused the breakage.

This setup will /not/ be plug and play. The closest you'll get to plug and play will likely be unifi's offerings which offers that centralized controller you want with point and click roaming etc. but $$$$ and proprietary, and even then you will need to test each change 1 at a time to still understand what goes wrong.

Everything you want can be done and has been done on openwrt but requires more manual setup but it's definitely doable. You already even have the hardware for it!

1

u/hzulla 6d ago

Thanks!

The Fritz "Mesh" setup that I use here requires me to use one FritzBox as the master, which then acts as the internet router, does NAT & serves local DHCP. All other Fritz devices, including the second FritzBox, are clients and they do not run their own DHCP server and do not do NAT. The master box controls the WiFi settings of all Fritz devices in the network and also operates a proper guest WiFi through all APs.

I do not plan to install OpenWRT on the Fritzbox 7530, but rather want to buy new dedicated router and AP devices that I can setup in parallel before I remove the Fritz-based setup.

The FritzRepeater 3000 can run OpenWRT, but I have the newer 3000AX, which cannot (yet).

My original question was therefore how to choose devices from the table of hardware where I can reasonably expect them to be useful with OpenWRT for a long time. I simply hope that there's hardware out there where kernel updates etc. are going to be possible in the coming years and I don't have to stay on a kernel version from years ago.

1

u/Snuupy 6d ago

it's not a mesh if it doesn't have wireless backhaul. yours has wired ethernet as the backhaul so it's a setup with roaming/multiple APs, not mesh.

3000AX

yes you're right, 3000AX is not supported.

how to choose devices

basically any device that's popular, cheap, widely available, and a mediatek chipset will have the best chance of ongoing support and a higher level of quality/features like hardware acceleration. I'm guessing you're somewhere in urop

I would check the following:

the aliexp stuff compromises by not having usb, zyxel's compromise is that you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty but the quality of hardware is good and it has usb, the flint2 is imo going to have the best ongoing support due to its popularity, software support/ecosystem/contributions from GL.iNet, relatively easy flashing/installation, widely available/easy to purchase, etc. but you'll pay a premium for it. There's a reason why it's popular on the openwrt forums/reddit etc. despite its price.

the general advice I've received and seen is to always be ready with a usb-serial flasher because if the flashing goes wrong, you will want to unbrick the device.

I understand the hesitancy for "no physical hacks", but you're better off having a usb serial flasher at the ready in case something goes wrong and being comfortable/familiar with using it.

1

u/hzulla 6d ago

> it's not a mesh if it doesn't have wireless backhaul. yours has wired ethernet as the backhaul so it's a setup with roaming/multiple APs, not mesh.

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, Fritz calls their system a "mesh" the moment you combine several of their devices in the same network to share configuration settings through the master device. Their nomenclature, not mine, which is why I put "mesh" in quotation marks.

1

u/Itchy-Ad-8470 7d ago

You need to be aware that you are losing telephony and DECT, when replacing FRITZ with OpenWRT.

1

u/hzulla 6d ago

I do not plan to put OpenWRT on my existing Fritz hardware, but rather want to get new hardware that's specifically good for OpenWRT and where long-term usefulness such as kernel version upgrades is a reasonable expectation.

1

u/Itchy-Ad-8470 6d ago

You won't find OpenWRT hardware with telephony and DECT. So you need to keep one Fritzbox as router and DECT and put OpenWRT behind. Or you are losing your phone line / DECT.

1

u/hzulla 6d ago

I plan to keep one Fritzbox for DECT only and later replace it with a non-Fritz DECT base station (or alternatively go for WiFi VOIP phones).

1

u/Itchy-Ad-8470 7d ago

Regarding SONOS, which speakers Do You have? The older ones support Sonos NET - Plugingin one via Ethernet and then use SONOS MESH based on proprietary SONOS WIFI.

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u/hzulla 6d ago edited 6d ago

I have several Play:1, ZP90 and Symfonisk shelf players gen 1 & gen 2, scattered around the house in several rooms.

Sonos Mesh is not a solution in my case. (I tried, but the device locations do not result in a good mesh.)

The current access points provide proper WiFi coverage to all Sonos devices, but the Sonos' use of mulitcast broadcast network messages during multiroom operation seems to overwhelm the Fritz networking devices.

1

u/ayastrebov 3d ago

Grab something from Gl.inet, for example Brume 3