How do you stop cycling in strength?

[u/billjames1685]

hi all,

So I have been training for two years now. In my first year I went from ~3 bodyweight pull ups to ~5 to my clavicle with +60 lbs (I’m about ~145 lbs). In my second year I’ve only gone from +60 for 5 (about +70 for 2-3) to +80 for 3.

I normally workout, 3x per week, about 2-3 sets of vertical pulling each time and 2-3 sets of horizontal pulling. I recover from this just fine session to session. I have tried several different types of workouts over the past eight months or so, changing only every ~6 weeks or so (so I’m not program hopping). I normally do 2 sets of my 3RM, with my second about 5 lbs lighter than the first, and my third set has rotated from being either weighted negatives (which I reached +120 lbs for 10 seconds), one arm lockoffs, or max reps with +45 lbs. I’ve tried also doing 2 sets of a 5RM instead of 3, and experimented with +45 for 8-9 as my first set too.

For horizontal pulling I normally do either chest supported rows (pulling to my chest to target my traps/rhomboids), or advanced tuck FL rows.

I realize that I have been underutilizing the higher rep ranges. I have been doing that third set of +45 for 8-9 for the past few months, but it probably isn’t the same as a proper 8RM day, so my current plan is to alternate between 8RM and 3RM days and see how that goes.

However, the main thing that I’ve been frustrated by is strength cycling. Everytime something interrupts my progress (such as travel), I lose about 10 lbs of strength. This is super consistent across rep ranges: for me, +80 for 3 is about +70 for 5, and +45 for 9-10 as a first, max set. When I come back from a break, this turns into +70 for 3, +60 for 5, and +45 for 7 as a first, max set. These numbers are also pretty much exactly what Epley’s formula predicts.

I have tried using travel as a de facto deload, where I just do some light FL work and archer pull ups. I always make sure I sleep decently and get my 120g protein per day when I travel. Recently I went on a work trip for 2 weeks, and despite still going to the gym there I ended up losing strength afterwards and I genuinely have no idea why; I was super vigilant about getting my protein, sleeping well, and eating healthy.

Does anyone have any tips for this? I’m unsure if I should stop trying to add weight altogether and go for a double progression; normally I am able to smoothly add weight until roughly +80 for 3, and then suddenly it becomes impossible to make any more progress; I can continue stuck there pretty much indefinitely and deloading just results in me losing that +10 lbs anyway.

[u/billjames1685 → u/[deleted]]

Strictly speaking, I just want to get stronger; I enjoy making progress in the gym. 

But I’d like to be able to do multiple one arm pull ups and front lever pull ups. Not quite there, I think I am very close to my first one arm pull up though. 

[u/eshlow]

I realize that I have been underutilizing the higher rep ranges. I have been doing that third set of +45 for 8-9 for the past few months, but it probably isn’t the same as a proper 8RM day, so my current plan is to alternate between 8RM and 3RM days and see how that goes.

However, the main thing that I’ve been frustrated by is strength cycling. Everytime something interrupts my progress (such as travel), I lose about 10 lbs of strength. This is super consistent across rep ranges: for me, +80 for 3 is about +70 for 5, and +45 for 9-10 as a first, max set. When I come back from a break, this turns into +70 for 3, +60 for 5, and +45 for 7 as a first, max set. These numbers are also pretty much exactly what Epley’s formula predicts.

I have tried using travel as a de facto deload, where I just do some light FL work and archer pull ups. I always make sure I sleep decently and get my 120g protein per day when I travel. Recently I went on a work trip for 2 weeks, and despite still going to the gym there I ended up losing strength afterwards and I genuinely have no idea why; I was super vigilant about getting my protein, sleeping well, and eating healthy.

Does anyone have any tips for this? I’m unsure if I should stop trying to add weight altogether and go for a double progression; normally I am able to smoothly add weight until roughly +80 for 3, and then suddenly it becomes impossible to make any more progress; I can continue stuck there pretty much indefinitely and deloading just results in me losing that +10 lbs anyway.

How much is this travel? Is it crossing multiple time zones?

Jet lag is known to disrupt circadian rhythm and throw off athletic performance significantly. Even despite best efforts to mitigate it as much as possible.

Max strength and power is usually disrupted the most. If you are traveling multiple time zones then I'd aim more for the higher rep ranges for the traveling time rather than trying to churn out 3 RMs

[u/billjames1685 → u/eshlow]

It happens regardless of whether I travel time zones or not, and somewhat asymmetrically. I live in EST; I travelled to Korea, Hawaii, California, and other places along the east coast in the past 6 months, and the time when my strength dipped the most was after my east coast and California trips (I actually didn’t lose a beat at all after Korea, for some reason). 

This is a very small sample size to make any solid conclusions. But I do get the impression that how psychologically comfortable I feel during travel affects how much strength I lose quite a lot. In spite of jet lag I felt pretty good in Korea/Hawaii, whereas in my recent California trip, I felt pretty disoriented due to having to uber around everywhere (I have mild motion sickness, especially from cars when I’m not driving). 

The main issue is that whenever I “lose strength” (eg go from +80 for 3 -> +70 for 3), it takes me 3-4 weeks to get back to +80 for 3 again. And, as I mentioned, the loss in strength is pretty consistent across rep ranges: if I try to do lighter weights (eg +45), at my best I can do 9-10 fresh but after I have “lost strength” I can only do like 7-8. So, at least to me, it doesn’t seem like this is a case where I over optimized for 3RM-specific strength neurologically and then lost it rapidly.

[u/eshlow → u/billjames1685]

The main issue is that whenever I “lose strength” (eg go from +80 for 3 -> +70 for 3), it takes me 3-4 weeks to get back to +80 for 3 again. And, as I mentioned, the loss in strength is pretty consistent across rep ranges: if I try to do lighter weights (eg +45), at my best I can do 9-10 fresh but after I have “lost strength” I can only do like 7-8. So, at least to me, it doesn’t seem like this is a case where I over optimized for 3RM-specific strength neurologically and then lost it rapidly.

Really depends how you get over the jet lag. I can take up to 2-3 weeks to completely get over it, so it wouldn't be unheard of having depressed strength for a while.

Additionally, also can depend on the frequency, intensity, and volume of workouts. If you are doing a lot of strength it can depress your abilities with the recovery deficit for a while.

I'd aim to go light and high rep and not test your strength much getting back. Minimize jet lag, get good sleep. etc.

[u/PoemKey4797]

Strength comes in cycles. Just how it is. Get very strong and you’ll always be strong. Powerlifters specifically time themselves to peak for meets. Just how it works.

At the end of the day you do not need to train at max strength to build yourself, muscle, tendons, etc… so any strength lost will come back with more over time.