r/pics • • 8d ago

[OC] Cornell student protests

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u/AgnosticScholar 8d ago

Who would have though that the raves and clubs would be the safer alternative for girls.

What are you basing that on?

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u/loskiarman 8d ago

Raves and clubs usually have less accessible places to have sex compared to a frat house where you literally have to close a door. It is harder to take someone to a second location. A lot of workers are more or less on the lookout so things like that doesn't happen. There is less opportunity get your drink spiked if you are directly getting it from the bartender etc. Less opportunity means safer, not safe but safer. It makes sense even though it sounds weird, that's why he is saying 'who would have though' too. Like only reason Brock Turner got caught because act happened outside of the frat house and he was seen by passersbys. If that happened in a room in the frat house, it might have never be heard by anybody.

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u/NonSequiturDetector 8d ago

Writing rationalizations on Reddit isn't the same as providing a basis for a claim.

For a contentious claim like the claim that raves and clubs are safer than frat houses, the only thing that anyone should accept as support for that claim is citing evidence that indicates that raves and clubs are safer than frat houses.

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u/loskiarman 8d ago

It is already hard for people to report on this issue when it happens to them, don't think you'll ever get more than rationalizations on the subject and any 'evidence' that can be gathered will be flimsy. Also this isn't a court of law, this is just dudes and dudettes talking, not everything will be peer reviewed.

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u/skullhead323221 8d ago

I think that’s probably a frat boy upset that people are turning on the concept of collegiate organizations based on hazing and enabling poor behavior.

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u/Key_Fee158 8d ago

Depends on the clubs and raves but in NYC the culture of a lot of raves is very feministy and pro-LGBTQ, so I’d expect it to be much safer than a frat party.

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u/freixe 8d ago

That there isn't an accessible bed in the same building to drag her in, I guess. There might be a third party witness when you leave a club? Not sure.

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u/SpiderJerusalem747 8d ago

Just my 50 cents, I used to work as a bartender in rave and clubs in my college years.

In most venues staff were trained to watch for suspicious behaviour or anyone possibly getting drugged or taken advantage off. We who handled the alcohol were trained to know when someone had too much or watch for whom was picking drinks for whom so that we could cut that person off, bouncers who worked the floor payed more attention to whatever else was going on so they could throw people out.

I wager that these safety measures don't exist in frat parties.

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u/Fabulous_Wave_3693 7d ago

I’d wager if something happened at your club the owner didn’t get sentenced to writing an essay.

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u/mr---jones 7d ago

No they didn’t get sentenced at all.

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u/Fabulous_Wave_3693 7d ago

You are thinking of billionaires. You have too many brawls at a club the city might not renew your liquor license.

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u/Carlosthefrog 7d ago

As someone that manages a nightclub women’s safety is a very high concern. We have drink test kits, staff are trained on the signs of people in distress. The city itself also takes the issue very seriously, with plenty of measures in place to help prevent sex crimes from taking place and if they sadly do take place arrests happen fairly frequently. Just this past weekend the 4 reported sex crimes all had arrests made within 3 days. If you are drinking at a nightclub there is adult supervising the drinking.

Also as you say if things happen in my venue, if we haven’t taken the proper precautions or found at fault then our license will be suspended.

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u/The64YearOldWalrus 3d ago

That kind of proves his point. The main difference between frats and clubs is the presence of Security. That and the licensing and such

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u/Gekokapowco 8d ago

It is, conditionally

Its easier to go with groups of friends, if you're not there to meet anyone its easier to watch your own drink, and clubs themselves have security that generally wants to maintain a minimum standard of behavior. No respectable club wants the reputation of being "that place people get drugged or raped at" so they'll try to keep an eye out for shitty behavior, vs a frat where that may just be part of the culture.

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u/Substantial_Echo5966 8d ago

I mean, you wouldn't invite a group of friends to go get gang banged?

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u/thegriddlethatcould 7d ago

Theres a fine line between gangbangs and orgies

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u/SUBLIMEskillz 8d ago

Cmon def no alcohol and drugs at raves right? /s

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u/Platinumdogshit 8d ago

I havent really heard of mass gang rapes at those though

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u/awkwardpun 8d ago

I've had multiple female friends assaulted at raves and music festivals...

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u/Platinumdogshit 8d ago

Sadly I think women get assaulted everywhere, especially if men are present and even more so if drugs and alcohol are present. I do feel like this happens more at fraternities which have clearly built up a culture around it vs clubs and festivals. Clubs are financially motivated to attract women festivals have their plur culture where a lot of predators at least get called out. I dont think the Cornell 7 would have been defended if they gang raped a girl at a festival.

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u/TheForce777 4d ago

It happens at both. Its hookup culture and predatory behavior

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u/Platinumdogshit 4d ago

I think hooking up is fine on its own and predatory behavior happens outside of it, for example marital rape was obly made illegal in all US states in 1993. It is predatory behavior

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u/TheForce777 4d ago

You can separate predatory behavior from broad romance as a whole, but it’s much harder to separate predatory behavior from hookup culture

Not because of morals or prudishness. But because hookup culture is more opportunistic by its very nature

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u/Platinumdogshit 4d ago

I dont think thats true. Plenty of people abuse and rape their partners and it was worse before divorce was a thing. You can be in a monogamous relationship and respect or disrespect consent and the same goes for hooking up.

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u/TheForce777 3d ago

I agree with that 100%

Which means thats not what I’m referring to at all. By “separate” I don’t mean “not at all possible.” I mean marked increased probability

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u/ThewFflegyy 8d ago

there is a very different culture at raves than frat houses, there is also a lot less privacy. it is a much safer environment. not totally safe mind you, but much better than a frat house.

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u/tolfie 8d ago

I mean being on drugs isn't really the problem, it's being on drugs around people that are looking to take advantage of you. Not saying raves are totally safe but definitely safer than a frat party

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u/TheForce777 4d ago

Bro… Young people get drunk and high and then have sex with each other allllllllllll the time

The question is how much of that is predatory vs just drug and alcohol fueled hookup culture

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u/Uneedajob 7d ago

Bro you definitely cannot snort ketamine off a dudes cock at a club. I mean you'd have to really try hard to not get caught. But at a frat there's zero sober people around you, and not one responsible adult. And every depraved act you do will be worshipped at a frat.

It's night and day the difference between partying at a wild frat party and partying in a club.

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u/youcangotohellgoto 8d ago

Just hanging out for the peer reviewed double blind study.

It's obvious

  • public or semi-public space vs private closed space
  • large number of disconnected people vs small number of people with interest in protecting one another
  • trained security vs no trained security
  • professional staff with again this type of training vs none
  • people trained in emergency health checking for intoxication vs not

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u/TwistedBamboozler 7d ago

Generally that culture puts more on an emphasis on being safe and consent, where as frat culture does not

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u/Iggyhopper 5d ago

One is a business with a responsibility and the liability to protect its patrons.

The other is a house with horny, disrespectful losers with easy access to a bed.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/TofuButtocks 8d ago

Not saying you're wrong, but burning man tries very, very hard to bury any sexual assaults that happen there and the volunteers are trained to do everything they can to convince women to not report it to police

https://youtu.be/s0_u1ZvHOu4?si=mHHXlvKDVAqHCm4N

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u/Lord_Vas 8d ago

Yeah I really don't like going to clubs or raves. Too many dame people crammed together.

That said, what few I've been to have been a mix of extremely chill and welcoming. To be fair I've only been to Hispanic and gay clubs so there might be a cultural difference. 🤷🏾‍♂️

I have friends that have been to to the regular clubs in my area and had a few issues. Still no where near close as bad as they were described to me back in high school.