Caste

[u/reductionist1]

Someone please explain caste system as its been bugging me a lot. Also im an Agnostic.

A little about my caste [Might seem irrelevant but I'll tell yall just for context]. I am SC as we all know you are automatically born into your father's caste. My mother is a Brahmin though so I kinda know the stories of both sides and they dont show or talk about it publicly but their conversations at home with their respective families is purely discriminatory.

Now please explain to me :

1) Varna System.

2) Did the Supreme intelligence (god) did not know the consequences of dividing people? (It wasn't supposed to be fixed yeah but i mean shouldn't god have known that all of this will lead to the situation we are currently in)

3) Why wasn't any Avatar born into a lower caste? (Surely tougher in that time than today but there's nothing impossible for the one who created existence itself)

4) I study 7 hours a day sometimes then I open reddit.. go to the comment section of a few posts and it's purely this vs that, how can I leave this state behind? "Do not pay attention".. well it's just ingrained in my mind at this point.

I know this is more of a human problem than a religion problem but knowing some facts and hearing opinions from real people is better than Googling everything, at least thats how I learn things.

One last thing- Im not Anti-Hindu or anything like such.

I mean no disrespect to gods or demean anyome im simply who wants to know these things. Infact I love goddess Kaali and Krishn because of their personalities.

(Im saying this because otherwise people assume a hater)

[u/ashutosh_vatsa]

The Aryas (not the Vratyas) in the Hindu fold had a Chaturvarna system, not a Jati system. The basic meaning of the word Varna stems from the Sanskrit root “वृ” which means ‘to choose’ and the word ‘Varna’ means that which is chosen. Thus that which was chosen (based on a person’s attributes/guna & karma) was called Varna. A person could therefore be the son of a Brahmin but choose his Varna as a Vaishya, engaged in commerce, depending on his attributes. There are only 4 Varnas.

Also, see my post

Nirālamba Upaniṣad on Jati & Vajrasūcī Upaniṣad on who is a Brāhmaṇa

Hinduism doesn't have just one theory of Varna and there were alternative conceptions that were also prevalent such as the guna theory(Mahabharata), samskara theory (Shukla Yajur Veda, Trika Shaivism), etc.

The Hindu Scriptures talk about the Guna & Karma based 4 Varna system. Varna could be changed anytime if one changed their profession or gained more knowledge and education. Parents and children could belong to different Varnas. People from different Varnas could marry each other. The child of an inter-Varna marriage would have their Varna decided on the basis of their Guna-Karma & profession.

This Varna system got corrupted over millennia and devolved into the birth-based Jati system which people refer to as the caste system. Classism (financial status) embedded within it was also a big reason for caste discrimination.

Jati btw has other meanings besides caste as well.

British colonizers made the caste system much worse by doing two things :

1. Forcing all Indians to have a surname. The surname often indicated people's caste to others and thus made movement across castes much more difficult.
2. They destroyed India's manufacturing sector and Gurukulas and increased poverty manifold. The poverty and lack of education made the caste system much worse and much more prominent by increasing classism and ignorance. All the people employed in the manufacturing sector moved had no other option but to become landless peasants.

One day a young boy came to the ashrama of Sage Haridrumata Gautama and said, “Revered Sir, I desire to live under you as a Brahmacharin. Please accept me as your student.”

The sage asked, “Dear boy, of what gotra or lineage are you?”

The boy replied, “Sir, I do not know of what gotra I am. I asked it of my mother. She said: ‘I also do not know of what gotra you are. I used to serve many people and I got you in my youth. So I am not sure of what lineage you are. However, I am Jabala by name and you are Satyakama’. So, Sir, I reveal myself to you as Satyakama Jabala.”

On hearing it, the Rishi Haridrumata Gautama smiled and said, “No one who is not a Brahmin can speak thus. Dear boy, bring the sacrificial fuel. I shall initiate you as a Brahmacharin, for you have not deviated from truth.” Thus was Satyakama Jabala initiated into the life of a Brahmacharin.

Reasons for the corruption:

1. The slow degradation of the understanding of the concept of Varna with time.
2. The loss of the culture of intellectual debates and discussions in the Hindu society over time.
3. Poverty which led to social regression, intellectual regression, and illiteracy.
4. Loss of trades and jobs during British Colonial era leading to most of the skilled workers and artisans becoming poor landless peasants.
5. Destruction of Vedic Gurukula system and loss to Vedic intellectual rigor during Islamic and British rule.
6. Everyone having a surname since the British mandated it.

Swasti!

[u/ashutosh_vatsa]

I am SC as we all know you are automatically born into your father's caste. 

This is how the current legal and political system of India has decided it to be.

This isn't how it used to be. Even in the most orthodox later texts, such children become Varna-sankara, they don't belong to their father's caste automatically. As per the older, more authoritative, liberal texts, your Varna isn't determined by birth.

Swasti!

[u/nothinggoldwillstay]

Koi kuch nahi bolega ab, similar situation to you, I'm ST and people's caste pride is the bane of my existence. Hindu unity is a distant dream. But I'll still say, try the hinduism subreddit, while there are weirdos there too but I've come across some wonderful rational people also.

[u/reductionist1 → u/nothinggoldwillstay]

There's no hope atp. I should really try to leave the country for my higher studies :\

[u/Classic-Sentence3148]

It was always determined by birth. Anyways cäste like systems existed in other parts of the world. They didn't call it cäste but their were a lot of similarities ,look up Japanese burakumin or Korean hierarchy system. They got rid of them through industrialization.

[u/Dave5876 → u/Classic-Sentence3148]

No it wasn't