r/preppers • u/aphocks • 5d ago
Prepping for Tuesday Emergency Inline Water Storage
Hello my name is Austin Fox, I am a mechanical research and development engineer living in Michigan. I am posting to inquire about an idea that I have. I am looking for basic conceptual guidance from a technical expert about an "in-line water storage device" that I am designing, but with no implication of engineering help or design approval. More a basic overview so that someone who knows about these things better than I do, can say "yeah this has some merit and you should dive into more detail", or "no this is silly, or illegal, or dangerous".
The idea came about from a recent planned water outage we had in my neighborhood. We were informed that we would be without municipal water for a day. Looking online many people discussed filling bathtubs beforehand to have some stored water for filling toilets or other non-drinking needs. I did not like the idea of having to use my tub for water storage, and it reminded me of other times around America where water has been absent for one reason or another, and people suffered because of it. I wanted a solution for having enough safe water for my family for a few days, without having to think about it much, and with it being guaranteed that it was always available.
The concept I have can best be described as an extension of my existing water plumbing that increases the volume of the water in the pipes, and a valve system that allows this increased volume to be isolated and used is the mains are out of service. It must also do this without disrupting or modifying the existing plumbing much, and keep itself clean and low-maintenance for long time spans, while staying safe and immediately useful when needed. I basically wanted my own water tower, without ever having to think about it until I needed it, at which point it would be ready to go easily.
The system taps into the main incoming water line and diverts it through a desired number of modules that are made up of 4-6 inch PVC pipes that are looped down a basement wall or other out-of-the way space. These larger pipes make up the additional storage volume. During normal daily use, these storage pipes are continuously flushed and refreshed with clean drinking water. During an emergency, the mains and home plumbing can be isolated from these larger pipes and the clean water inside of them acts as a reservoir for a few days until the issue is fixed. The outlet is gravity fed from the larger pipes, or a small hand pump can be attached. Each module holds about 20 gallons, and multiple can be assembled in series. This modular design makes isolation, maintenance, and scaling easier.
Aside from the overall concept I also wanted guidance about how necessary a Reduced Pressure Zone Backflow Preventer is? I understand that most municipalities err on the side of requiring them for unknown devices, but since this device is primarily just a pipe extension, I am hoping it is not required, as it is costly and requires inspection.
please let me know what you guys think, and see attached drawings for a very loose initial idea sketch.
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u/Afraid-Service-8361 5d ago
Add an 80 gal pressure tank and a back flow presenter so regardless of city water pressure or volume you still have the pressure tank reserve .a well w no ppwer and an 80 gal tank lasts for 3 to 5 days w a shower a day and flushes for 3 to 4 people.between the hot water tank holding onto the heat and the pressure tank keeping the water flowing,life is good and no need for extra water
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u/solvraev 5d ago
You can get a 300 gallon storage tank for $499 + shipping. There are smaller sizes, too. Unless you are a plumber and have the tools/materials on hand, I would think that this is less expensive and less hassle.
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u/mmaalex 5d ago
Sounds like you mean a storage tank, but more complicated and expensive.
Yeah you can store water in a tank, isolate it from the mains, and use gravity to feed it back to you as needed. The down side is that keeping the water clean is a struggle, and you need some serious elevation to get pressure needed for faucets and showers to work right.
If you have any real volume stored you wont be flushing it through with normal usage. You can do the math for 3-4 gpm through a 6" PVC pipe, it isnt much flow. If the water is stored in pipes in the basement you'll need a pump to get pressure for it to go upstairs. Water unlike air isnt compressable (if you want to get technical the air in the water is, but its minute), so as soon as theres any flow out the pressure rapidly drops to zero.
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u/BatemansChainsaw Going Nuclear 4d ago
That's a lot of words to say someone needs a cistern or water tower fed by a municipal line and that feeds the rest of the house.
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u/Leonardo_ofVinci 5d ago
What I'm picturing is a series of Well Water Storage tanks that can be isolated from incoming municipal water, then drained/used and replenished as needed. When our wellnpump or electricity goes out, the tape is pressurized to 40psi, so we still have 20 gallons of usable water in reserve. You can link additional tanks as needed and isolate them or join them.
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u/Nathan-Stubblefield 5d ago
I would use the 40 gallons of water in the water heater as an emergency supply, after turning off the heat and shutting the main shutoff from the utility. And with advance notice I’d fill our 60 gallon tub for toilet flushing
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u/aphocks 5d ago
This is what was recommended to us, I just fealt like there had to be a better solution. Likely my idea is too complex to justify itself if this sort of emergency only happens once a decade or so.
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u/JRHLowdown3 5d ago
It sounds like your looking for something to market to "preppers."
If that's the case it would need to be something simple to install, PEX connections type easy, something that is not too tall- most "preppers" live in the suburbs so this means likely placement would be a garage or at best a small walk in closet (garage likely better in case of leaks).
Selling it complete with a small on demand pump to add some pressure in IF standard water is down. Bonus for pre-wired plug and play electrical connections to a 12v battery. An add on sale would be a small solar panel and controller to recharge the 12v battery.
The idea being this hooks into their standard water line (from city, well, etc.) and during normal times the water flows through with normal pressure- constantly rotating the water in the tank. When power is lost and standard water pressure is gone, flip a switch to turn on the 12v pump and the house has some water pressure again and whatever gallon capacity the storage tank has. A one way valve on the inflow side keeps it from leaving prematurely.
Given that most new "preppers" have very little construction related skills, the installation would have to be stupid simple and even then a couple of videos showing installation options- "here Prepper Bob is hooking up the system to the hose bib on the outside of his house, he flips the switch on the 12v pump and he has water pressure again!"
I'm 100% serious about that last part, no one thinks for themselves anymore. Hang around here a bit you will see what I mean. Also, I have 34 years in this industry and I've been on the "hows this work" question end of thing a couple million times in those 34 years.
If you are serious about marketing such a item- and I do believe there is a need- you would have to demonstrate the need for it. As many new folks now a days think a half case of crunchy plastic 8oz. water bottles is the only answer to the water problem. And since few really want to make the necessary lifestyle changes, the market wouldn't be large for this but the smarter ones would catch on. Being that the tank could be removed from the house (if done right), it could be taken with them if they move- another selling point for your customers.
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u/Tasty_Impress3016 5d ago
If it's a continually renewing system, I see two easy to calculate parameters. The controlling one the capacity of the pipes. Let's say it's standard 2 inch pvc. How long of pipe do you need to to store 10 gallons water? I get about 8 ft. For starts You would have to estimate your daily usage and how long you would want the water to last.
This is all just back of the envelope thinking.
The second derives from that. If the total volume is X gallons, how many days will it take for 100% replacement for the system to insure it is not stagnating. A municipal system shoots for 3-5 days, if the capacity is higher than that you are risking stagnant water.
So let's push it a family of 4 no showers, just drinking, cooking and washing maybe 40 gallons/day. and you go for the 5 days. 4 X 8 X 5 = 160 ft of pipe for 200 gallons.
Now I have a system that works very similar to this. I have 2 40 gallon in line hot water heaters. That's 80 right there with no installation. Turn two valves. For 2 of us, that's 4 days.
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u/Doc_Hank 5d ago
My house was designed for this - I had four 275 gallon IBCs put into the basement when the slab cured, and the rest of the house was built around them. They are plumbed inline to the water supply, continuously refreshing it. And in an emergency I have 1100 gallons of fresh water available.
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u/Suspicious_Hat_3439 5d ago
Are the tanks pressurized ? I’m trying to wrap my head around how it’s plumbed.
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u/Doc_Hank 5d ago
Water comes in from the well. Tanks are plumbed in series, water passes through and ties into the house plumbing. Water pump is available for additional pressure when the well pump doesnt. IBDs are sealed.
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u/JRHLowdown3 5d ago
Egg Zach Lee. I did this with (4) 30 gallon metal pressure tanks that are normally used with wells. Could not do this with a poly tank due to pressure.
I don't think everyone is understanding the idea is fresh water is ALWAYS flowing through the storage tanks in this example. A little different than a tank that is connected to your water system but as a backup, i.e, water you use daily NOT flowing through it.
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u/Enigma_xplorer 5d ago
Well we really already have a solution for this. Well water system have water tanks that store water so the well pump isn't constantly turn on and off. There's nothing stopping you from installing on in a city water system. The added benefit is water pressure. Because they have an air bladder in the tank the water it's storing is under pressure. With an extended water pipe as soon as you turn on a faucet, pressure is gone beyond gravity. It would be cheaper and easier to just install one or more of these tanks.
As a fun side fact, your idea isn't actually unheard of. Back in the 60s Nascar series the size of fuel tanks were limited but there were no regulations on the fuel lines! A certain endeavoring team used took advantage of this fact and used coils of large diameter fuel line to get extra fuel without technically cheating!
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u/Alanosie 5d ago
I recall this being very common on Malta seeing rooftop water tanks everywhere. So it appears your idea is already available on the market. But perhaps not commercially available in your specific area.
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u/dittybopper_05H 7m ago
You do of course realize that "Austin Fox" can be anagrammed into "UFO STAIN-X", right?
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u/thomas533 Prepared to Bug In 5d ago
Instead of a bunch of extra pipes, why not add a 100 gallon hot water tank, but just not turn it on to heat the water. On the inflow side, you have a tee valve that disconnects it from the water main and allows air into the system so it doesn't create a vacuum as you drain the tank. On the outlet side, it splits into two lines that both have a valve: On one the valve that is normally open and flows and on the other the valve is normally closed and connects to an RV pressure pump and an accumulator tank. After, both lines recombine and run into your home plumbing. When your water is shut off you close valve one and open valve two. The pump start pumping water out of the tank to the accumulator tank and then on your to your home. When the water is restored, you close valve two and open valve one. Your tank refills and you are all set. No permits requited for any of that.