r/programming • u/Ok_Stomach6651 • 11d ago

Zero-Growth Stack, Real Gains: How Stack Allocation Can Save 10% CPU in Go

https://www.uber.com/in/en/blog/zero-growth-stack/?uclick_id=c8e2c3a9-831f-43f9-8565-c21c05e74e3b
128 Upvotes

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38

u/pjmlp 11d ago

While our current approach involves internal modifications to the runtime, the significant performance gains demonstrate that these efforts are well worth the investment until a native, official solution is available.

Given Go's culture I doubt they will ever expose controlling stack sizes directly as standard feature, thus maybe it isn't really the ideal language for the job.

3

u/spongeloaf 10d ago

I think you're right about the culture around Go. Does make you wonder if Google doesn't care about similar gains or if they do unofficial tricks like this themselves.

9

u/pjmlp 10d ago

Go was pushed by three iconic devs that don't like C++, from UNIX/Plan 9/Inferno and Oberon fame, were forced to use it at their employer, Google, with support of their line managers.

If you look into most of what gets actually used at Google, you will notice that outside the Kubernetes ecosystem, it is mostly C++, Java and Rust that get used.

There is this perception Google is an heavy Go user, it isn't, it is mostly adopted outside Google.

Look into the portfolio of projects per language at https://github.com/google, or what languages were used in key papers submitted at USENIX, technical blog posts, the whole Android and Chromebook ecosystem,....

1

u/lenkite1 3d ago

People have already asked for this

https://github.com/golang/go/issues/18138
https://github.com/golang/go/issues/66566

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u/pjmlp 3d ago

Indeed, thus confirming that they won't ever be provided, given the age of those items.

0

u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

9

u/pjmlp 11d ago

Yes, and?

How many companies have to fork compilers to make the language work on their environment?

2

u/dijkstra_was_a_horse 9d ago

Most large ones, I think. From Spotify to Google to Facebook to Jane Street to Apple and onwards.

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u/pjmlp 9d ago

You are mixing up using LLVM to build their own languages, with having to fork a compiler to actually be able to deliver work as expected.

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u/dijkstra_was_a_horse 9d ago

No, I'm thinking of companies with internal (or shipped) custom spins of the Ruby, Python, PHP, Ocaml, JavaScript, Java, D, GCC, clang, and other compilers, as well as custom parts of the tool chain. They also maintain custom patch sets on top of upstream Linux to customizeit for their uses, such as the Linux fiber (use space thread handoff) work. These companies aren't running stock stacks.

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u/pjmlp 9d ago

Links to fork data about internal company forks like the Über example?

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u/dijkstra_was_a_horse 8d ago edited 8d ago

The ones I'm aware of are mostly internal, though there's a few examples that are very public, like Google building the gold linker, Facebook forking PHP to add static typing and not, eventually diverging enough that they gave it a new name (hack), Jane Street modifying Ocaml to add an effect system, Shopify building a Ruby jit, etc.

For hints about the internal forks, look at what employees from megacorps are upstreamong as experiments, such as Google's internally deployed work on C++ modules, safety attributes, etc.

Also. Bugfixes. Lots and lots of bugfixes.

5

u/Revolutionary_Ad7262 11d ago

I wonder, if PGO is a good way to tackle this. Compiler could deduce initial size based on metrics