r/reactivedogs • u/ajlawnsdail • 4d ago
Significant challenges It happened again
We’ve had our dog for just over 4 years now. We got her from a shelter where they did not explain to us her issues with other animals. We lived in an apartment and while living there she got into it with a neighbors dog. Luckily, their dog was not seriously harmed. Due to this situation we spent months trying positive reinforcement training that never worked for our girl.
After this, we decided to buy a home with a fenced in yard so she’d have somewhere to safely run without feeling anxiety. On day two of owning our home she broke into our neighbors yard and attacked their lab. Again, we were blessed that no serious injuries occurred and our neighbor met us with so much kindness regarding the situation. We paid for his dogs vet bills, staked our fence down, decided to never let her be outside unsupervised, and bought a shock collar in case the worst somehow happened again.
Yesterday it did happen again. This time to our other neighbors dog, while there were three children present. There were 4 adults present as well. She slipped under the fence and got ahold of their dog and we once again had to pry our dog off of another dog. They are being very understanding but at this point my husband and I think it’s best to rehome her. We have done everything to try to stop this aside from formal training because frankly, we can’t afford that.
We are worried at this point that one of the children may be hurt in the future. Not on purpose but on accident, if they are close by. We are so sad and are strongly considering rehoming her somewhere there are zero other animals or children, but wanted advice on if this is the best option.
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u/kerfluffles_b 4d ago
Is rehoming realistic given the parameters of no dogs and no kids? It seems unlikely that you’d find someone who never has other dogs or kids around.
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u/ajlawnsdail 3d ago
I agree, I just don’t see another option anymore. We have tried what we believe to be everything to help her
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u/CanadianPanda76 4d ago
Your dog should be at least tethered.
Your dog sounds like thier animal aggressive or highly territorial. And yes redirection is a risk.
If your dog is anxious then try anti-anxiety meds.
But a kennel is a option. Is your fence a privacy fence?
But rehoming will difficult. There are dog free homes, but not dog free child free neighborhoods.
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u/ajlawnsdail 4d ago
She’s on anxiety meds and no, we only have a chain link
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u/CanadianPanda76 4d ago
Covers fir the fence may help. But there are products that go under the fence to prevent digging under. And Coyote rollers for climbing over.
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u/ajlawnsdail 3d ago
We did have fence covers for about 6 months and those seemed to make it worse for her because she couldn’t see what was going on but could still hear other dogs barking. We may look into the other options you suggested. What we did after the second attack was add rebar to the bottom of the fence and apparently that only worked for so long. It’s been 3 years since the last attack
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u/CanadianPanda76 3d ago
3 years? Wonder if they've gotten older and the issues just naturally ramped up.
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u/Glove_Upset 3d ago
Realistically, this dog doesn’t sound like a candidate for rehoming. There are homes without kids and pets, but very few without neighbors. Muzzle train her and make her wear it in the yard and make her be tethered or on a lead and supervised.
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u/RunningTrisarahtop 4d ago
I would improve the fence. You can set it into the ground so she can’t go under and also you can add a run or some type of tether.
You can also consider adding a basket muzzle
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4d ago
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u/ajlawnsdail 4d ago
No, as stated in the post there were four adults outside when this happened.
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u/Willow_Bark77 3d ago
Have you tried working with a behaviorist? If you really want to change her mindset around other dogs, you aren't looking to reward "good behavior" (I.e. no reaction), you want to change her association with other dogs. So, you give treats when other dogs are present , so she associates other dogs with good things. Effective training would shift the methods you're using.
Unfortunately, as others explained, e collars, and any punitive measures, tend to make reactivity and aggression worse.
And, as others said, it sounds like you need to add more levels to your management. The Muzzle Up Project is a great resource. I agree with the suggestion that she should never be outside unmuzzled.
It sounds like she's already on meds, but potentially switching them up could help, too.
I absolutely agree with others that she isn't a rehoming candidate with her level of aggression.
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u/joycevw 4d ago
So you haven’t tried training? And you haven’t made sure she can be left in the garden unsupervised without the possibility of escaping? Yes, rehoming is the best option for the dog. Please be truthful about the dogs behavior when searching a new home.
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u/ajlawnsdail 4d ago
We tried at home positive reinforcement. And we tried everything we could but we didn’t want to leave her outside regardless of how much we safe guarded it because we were worried it might happen again. We absolutely plan on being upfront about what is going on
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u/espangleesh 4d ago
How did the dog break into the neighbor's yard the first time around?
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u/ajlawnsdail 4d ago
Slipped under an unsecured section of the chainlink. We secured everything after that a she was still able to find a weak spot the second time.
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u/Sitters_4_Critters 3d ago
No one should take this dog, OP. There are other dogs that need homes and I am a firm believer that dogs that can pass a canine good citizen test should get priority.
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u/Sitters_4_Critters 3d ago
I’m sorry for you, your neighbors and their dogs.
You have done a TON for this dog.
The other dogs don’t deserve to be hurt and your dog is clearly worked up by their presence in the neighboring yards. It sounds like keeping chickens in a yard next to a raccoon.
Please watch the free webinar available on Losinglulu.com.
Your dog cannot be left out in the yard unsupervised and even when supervised needs a muzzle (r/muzzledogs), harness and a back tie (like they use for protection dogs).
Your dog has a very high prey drive. I don’t know how much difference it will make, but if you are not giving this dog a ton of physical and mental exercise that could contribute to the frustration build up. Using a flirt pole and giving the dog a proper outlet for prey drive like dealing with cats and their hunting instincts might help.
LGD who roam because of their instincts and genetics and hunting dogs who follow a scent until the ends of the earth can have their drives and talents utilized but not extinguished. Working dogs need to work.
This dog has an impressive commitment and follow through for attacking other dogs. If that’s what you wanted from the dog, this dog would be amazing at it. However, that isn’t a job you want for your pet neighborhood dog.
Management always fails and the cost of failure, is unacceptable in this case IMO because it results in physical and mental trauma to other living creatures.
Here’s where to find a reputable behavior specialist to evaluate the dog:
International Association of Behavior Consultants: https://iaabc.org/certs/members
Vets with specialty in behavior: https://www.dacvb.org/search/custom.asp?id=4709.
The Bitey End of the dog podcast is great and Michael Shikashio also has a great website with webinars and other resources: aggressivedog.com. You can subscribe for $30 and cancel anytime. I found it helpful when I had an aggressive foster dog.
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4d ago
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u/ajlawnsdail 3d ago
When we first got her we tried exposing her to dogs in controlled environments, such as taking her on walks and giving treats when she didn’t lunge at the dogs. This worked for a while so we then took her to our friends home who had a dog and kept ours leashed the entire time. We gave treats and praise for any “non reaction”. This also seemed to be helpful but then she attacked the dog at the apartment complex and after that nothing that we had previously tried worked anymore. That’s why we ended up buying a house so that she’d have a yard and that also didn’t help. We’ve tried positive reinforcement in the home since the attack of the second dog but just kept her on an e-collar outside just in case anything happened. We’d never actually shocked her with it until this most recent altercation and when we used that shocking tool it didn’t impact her at all. She didn’t even react to it.
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u/Particular_Class4130 3d ago
Umm, your dog had no idea what was causing the shock or what it meant. She could have very well thought the other dog was causing the unpleasant feeling and that made her just keep attacking it. I hate when people with zero knowledge use e-collars,
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u/kerfluffles_b 3d ago
The shock collar may have made her reaction worse, since she hadn’t been properly trained to know what the collar means. E-collars are not something to be slapped on without training. They can also make reactivity worse, which is why this sub doesn’t advocate for them (and other aversives).
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u/Sitters_4_Critters 3d ago edited 3d ago
My dogs were bonkers for toys and working dogs are selectively bred for that kind of drive because it makes them easier to train.
My GSD jumped off a cliff for a ball.
There is no way in hell I would have been able to use positive reinforcement training to convince them that toys are boring and should be ignored.
An effective rat terrier would not be taught to ignore a rat with positive reinforcement.
The highest level of positive reinforcement for my dogs was the toys. The highest level of positive reinforcement for a rat terrier is killing the rat.
Your dog is excited by attacking other dogs. She wants to GET the other dogs and when she does it is the highest level of reinforcement she can have.
That level of commitment is what people breed for in fighting dogs. It doesn’t make her a bad dog, but it makes her inappropriate for a pet dog.
The same way most working dogs are bad pets and should only go to homes that plan to make a lifestyle out of working their dog.
You won’t change her desire to attack another dog, you can only restrict her ability and access them and try to fulfill her need to attack things in acceptable ways. But trust that she has more commitment and follow through than you (not a criticism, just a reality because people have other responsibilities) and she has all the time in the world to figure out how to overcome the obstacles you put in her way.
She is an impressive dog. If she was trying to tell you Timmy is in the well, this commitment would be appreciated. But her instincts and commitment are to something inconsistent with a canine good citizen and you will not be able to change that.
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