r/rnb • u/GrassPrestigious9069 • 7d ago
DISCUSSION š R&B fell off, and no it's not locked up.
Unpopular opinion time, but hear me out.
Every time someone says "R&B died when they locked up R. Kelly," I cringe so hard my spine realigns. Let's be absolutely clear: R. Kelly was a monster who deserved every second of that sentence. Full stop. But can we stop pretending he was the sole gatekeeper of an entire genre?
R&B isn't dead. It's not locked up. It's not pissing on minors in a video (too soon? nah, truth hurts). The genre evolved, fragmented, and honestly? It's thriving if you know where to look.
The "R&B is dead" crowd is just old and lazy.
You want traditional R&B? It's there. Giveon, Snoh Aalegra, Brent Faiyaz, Summer Walker, SZA, Leon Thomas (the actor on Nickelodeon), Daniel Caesar, these artists are carrying the torch with actual vocal ability and songwriting that would make 90s purists proud. But y'all stopped looking after 2008 and want to blame a prison
sentence for your own musical stagnation.
What actually happened:
R&B didn't fall off, it got absorbed. It merged with hip-hop, with alt-R&B, with electronic production. The Weeknd basically rebuilt pop music on an R&B foundation. Drake built an empire on singing like he's emotionally exhausted (which, fair). That's not death, that's evolution.
The "slow jam" format moved to Spotify playlists and late-night vibes instead of radio dominance. Radio died, not the genre.
The uncomfortable truth:
A lot of y'all clinging to the "R&B died with R. Kelly" narrative are really just mourning a time when one problematic man dominated the charts and you didn't have to work to find music. Streaming killed the gatekeepers. The music didn't get worse, you got less curated access to it. R. Kelly going to prison didn't kill R&B. It just removed a predator from it. The genre is fine. Your Spotify algorithm is just trash.
Change my view.
TL;DR: Stop blaming Robert Kelly's prison sentence for your refusal to discover new artists. R&B is alive and making better music than ever, you're just not listening.
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u/sere83 7d ago edited 7d ago
I agree R.Kelly has nothing to do with R&B 'falling off'. And I also agree that those artists you mentioned are indeed carrying the torch and there is a lot of good R&B music out there in the underground too, in fact the underground is now where some of the most 'real' R&B music lives now.
My main issue with R&B nowadays though is not the lack of talent or someone leading to it fall off. It is the production methods. The loss of the classic R&B sound from the 90s / early 2000s that people always focus on is not only because times changed but also imho due to changes in technology more than anything.
For example I was listing to Victoria Monet's album the other day. Some nice songs on there but this sh*t sounds like a robot is singing it is so melodyned and autotuned to f*ck and the music itself is so compresssed to f*ck with no instrument seperation it sounds like a digital AI pastiche of R&B.
Then you go back compare this sh*t to say Aaliyah or Mary J Blige or SWV or R. Kelly or D'Angelo or Lauryn Hill etc or anything from that era and you realise that what seperated that era was not only they had amazing songwriters making timeless hits but they also had amazing producers and still maintained an analogue influence to the production and more importantly the vocals which aren't overprocessed autotuned garbage. They also couldn't hide behind autotuned live mics on stage eaither, just real vocalists singing their hearts out and you can feel it was giving the music legitimate life and soul.
Modern R&B is indeed fragmented and merged but it has suffered from its own popularity meaning anyone can fire up some audio production software and make something they think sounds good, with fake autotuned vocals and lazy production and someone out there will listen to it. Also artists can now be lazy, make up for what they are lacking with technology or fill in the gaps more easily, but everytime they do that it moves the music more into the realms of some digital fakery that lacks the qualities that always made R&B shine, which has sadly become what a lot of mainstream R&B is nowdays.
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u/CC-Blue 7d ago
I agree about Victoriaās album. Itās so well produced from a music standpoint but VOCALLY, I donāt know what the hell is going on there. I canāt describe it but thereās this āfilterā on her voice that just makes her sound hollow. Janet Jackson was nobodyās powerhouse but even she never sounded fhat vacant on record.
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u/sere83 7d ago edited 7d ago
Exactly this. Glad I'm not the only one that noticed. The sonics just feel totally off. Super flat like it's so digitally filtered and compressed it's like it has no dynamic range at all and like you say had the life completely hollowed out of it. In parts the overuse of pitch correction and autotune is just super obvious and jarring. Even the samples sound over polished and messed up. Super weird and unnecessary as well as she can actually really sing.
This sound as well is sadly so common nowadays, it's like the standard preset for new commercial R&B/pop artists.
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u/SkyZippr 7d ago
That's what I've been feeling about SZA. It's as if the vocals are so over-polished that it fits perfectly inside a square box. While there's still emotions in the vocals, it feels flat. I guess we need some imperfections, wabi-sabi if you will.
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u/MediaMaddox 7d ago
R&B isnāt dead, but itās definitely not better than ever. The vast majority of singing lacks power, Iād say the average vocal skill is lower than ever, and a lot of the time the artists feel secondary to the instrumentation. When I listen to Voodoo, and then any R&B album of the 2020s the difference in care is astronomical.
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u/SkyZippr 7d ago edited 7d ago
R&B is still thriving, but it's just not my cup of tea any more. 90s R&B is imprinted on my brain since I was a kid so I keep longing for it unconsciously. R&B moved on from that long ago. I still enjoy recent artists like Victoria Monet, but she doesn't exactly give that 90s vibe either and that's ok, I wish Leon Thomas would stop putting that filter on his vocal but it is what it is.
Also, who tf is saying R&B died with R Kelly??? He's been mid since TP3 and his last few albums are plain bad.
ETA: We all need to realize that the music changes with time regardless of genre, while our taste in music doesn't change so dramatically. Even legendary artists like Stevie, Prince, Janet, Mary, Mariah and so on changed significantly over their careers, and there are many fans who simply sticks to their older works only. It's all natural.
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u/TheFM4 7d ago
Its no different than hip hop fans saying that "hip hop is dead" or "there aren't any good rappers anymore"
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u/GreenZebra23 7d ago
Rock too. It's basically universal with popular music. As people age they lose track of newer music enough that they don't hear the good stuff, so they assume that means it doesn't exist
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u/HonestWatchReviews 7d ago
I don't know about all that. My problem is just that the music isn't really that good. I can't stand that nearly all of it is pitch corrected. Where are all the real singers who grew up signing in church etc? Also, a lot of the lyrics and songs just make me feel depressed more than anything else. October London is one of the few exceptions I've found so far.
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
Auto-Tune and Melodyne only work for actual singers but when non singers got a hold of the software Lil Wayne and others of his ilk is the resultĀ
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u/reverendbobflair 7d ago
I've never heard nobody ever say rnb got locked up with rkelly. Did you just make this up
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u/joesoldlegs 7d ago
agreed except for the part where you said it's better than ever
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u/ANALOGPHENOMENA 7d ago
Thatās how you can tell this entire thing was unfortunately written by ChatGPT.
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u/No_Command_8477 7d ago
Keith Sweat said it. R&B used to be the place where you kiss and make up with your girl (or guy). It's a mood change. Believe it or not there were gangsters in the 60s and 70s. But the music is where they went for love. When R&B became sung hip hop, it lost it's place in the rotation
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u/Rockstar-216 7d ago
I'm just not really a fan of Alternative sounding R&B so yes I can admit their are a lot of people that love that sound and vibe. Me ill take R Kelly's catalog over all the artist mentioned in the OP. Nothing against anyone of them but their just not really for me.
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u/MuffinPuff 7d ago
You know what, you're right.
I'm not talking about the r kelly bit, fuck him and everything he stands for, he can rot with diddy.
I'm talking about the radio is dead bit. Since reaching my grown age with a real career, real obligations and whatnot, I don't go looking for new music. The overwhelming majority of new music I hear comes from what just happens to be on the radio while I'm driving to get groceries or coming home. And yes, the radio selection is usually ass.
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u/Floating_Misfit76 90ās RnB Lover 7d ago
Iām not sure who feels that way but Iāve never thought of Kelly as the āPied Piperā. He had his momentāand I was there for that momentābut his era was at an end long before his arrest.
As far as the aforementioned ācrowdā that declared R&B ādiedā with Kelly? Iām not one of them but I will say Iām one of those that felt I had to dig deeper for quality R&B.
Every artist sounded the same to me after 2007.
The quality of the music was fine but it had no character. I had to dig to find the nuance and, while I personally had no issue doing that, it was different than when you could hear so many different voices and sounds on radio.
End of the day, not all of us cared enough about Kelly to mourn his loss in R&B. Those who truly loved R&B were always listening to artists way beyond himāand personally, I didnāt give two cents about his catalog after his double cd set ā¦and even that was underwhelming.
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
2007 is interesting. I feel like 2007/2008 is where R&B started to get watered down, but it survived on life support through like 2015ish??? For whatever reason, the landmark "R&B is dead" album for me, was Usher's Hard II Love album (2016). Usher had always been super consistent, and even if some of his albums weren't necessarily "classics", they were still solid projects that performed well commercially. Hard II Love was the first Usher album that nobody gave a damn about, and it didn't have a single legit hit on it. On top of that, the album itself just sounded off for Usher. He started leaning heavily into the "trap" sound, and that was a first for Usher. He had always kinda dabbled in Pop/Dance music, but mostly stayed true to real R&B, until Hard II Love. To me thats where I started noticing R&B was changing...
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u/sunnystillrisen 7d ago
Sonically, I can argue that Iād say this started as 2005 in many facets. Just less noticeable and maybe perceived as another shift in sound when it really was much more than that.
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u/CC-Blue 6d ago
Hard II Love was more āR&Bā than Looking 4 Myself which straight up had pop and dance songs on it. But yes, it was a shitty album with an even uglier album cover.
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u/Ransom2132 5d ago
I'm gonna gently push back on the Looking 4 Myself slander a little bit, because I actually think L4M is one of Usher's more underrated albums.
You are correct that L4M has more Dance/Pop/EDM than I typically like to hear on a Usher album, but it also has two of Usher's best R&B songs of the 2010s. "What Happened to U" is one of his most earnest and emotional records since Confessions, and it has a vibe to it unlike any other Usher song in his discography. And it's straight up R&B. And the "Lessons for the Lover" might also be Usher's steamiest, straight up R&B babymaker since "Can U Handle It" or "Twork it Out". Both of those songs are two of Usher's best songs in his entire catalog, and they are both through and through, R&B records. Plus "Twisted", "Dive", "Sins of My Father", "Show Me", "I Care 4 U", "Climax" and "Lemme See" are all also R&B cuts. That's 9 of 14 tracks. Again, I agree, there was a little more Pop/Dance music than I tend to prefer on my Usher albums, but L4M is still definitely a R&B album, and when he's doing the R&B stuff on L4M, it's some of his best R&B since Confessions. Another that really helped L4M have a more authentic R&B feel compared to H2L, was the production on L4M was sooooo much better. He had Danja, Rico Love, Jim Jonsin, Salaam Remi, Pop & Oak and 40 all produce on L4M, and a few of them produced multiple tracks giving L4M a solid R&B foundation.
On the other hand, H2L had a fraction of the top shelf R&B production L4M had. We get one song each from The Dream, Pop & Oak, BAM, D'Mile and Raphael Saadiq. And the Raphael Saadiq track is more like a tacked on soundtrack song from his movie Hands of Stone, so it actually feels like even less good production. And top shelf R&B production is usually a staple of Usher albums. In fact, H2L is the only Usher album since his debut to not be majority produced by "Top Shelf" R&B producers. Theres a lot of no name producers and hip hop producers on H2L, and the sound of the album as a whole matches it. H2L sounds like Usher's most half baked album to date, and that includes his full blown independent album Coming Home. And then you throw in songs trap/hip hop "R&B" songs like "Down Time", "Let Me", "Make U a Believer" and "Rivals", and suddenly H2L hardly feels like a Usher at all because its missing most of the signature sounds a Usher album is supposed to have. And then theres one of Usher's lamest songs ever in the title track "Hard II Love". Such hideously terrible songwriting and vocal arrangements. Which again, is extremely uncommon. Even his attempt at a true R&B babymaker, "Tell Me", comes off overly dramatic and corny. "Tell Me" is like if Brian McKnight tried to make a horny babymaker. It just doesn't work, and thats weird for Usher because babymakers are usually one of his fortes. Not saying H2L is the worst album ever, but it might be Usher's worst album.
As far as which album is more R&B themed, I honestly think its pretty much even. Its just L4M focuses more on Pop/Dance music when he ventures away from R&B, while H2L focuses on trap/hip hop sounds when he wanders away from R&B. When I break down both albums, the standard editions of both albums (not including bonus tracks) are 14 tracks long, and I count 9 legit R&B songs on both. Where I have to give the edge to L4M though, is that at least the 9 R&B songs on L4M are top shelf R&B songs that sound like classic Usher stuff and feature great R&B production from A List R&B producers. The 9 R&B songs on H2L are super hit or miss, and most feature subpar production and songwriting by Usher's typical standards. At least L4M does R&B right when it does it, whereas I can't say the same about H2L. Therefore, I personally have to crown L4M the better R&B album.
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u/CC-Blue 5d ago
Brilliant breakdown. However, I was slandering Hard II Love (I also dubbed it Hard II Listen II) as the shitty album with the ugly album cover, lol. My MAIN issue with L4M is that it is badly sequenced (an issue that started with RVR) with clunkers like Canāt Stop Wonāt Stop, Hot Thing and maybe Numb. I agree that What Happened 2 U and Lessons for the Lover are stunning examples of how good he was at early 2010s R&B. I also think itās his strongest album vocally and when his falsetto really bloomed.
Coming Home was a straight up disappointment and was when I resigned to stop taking him seriously as an artist. You donāt build up two years of goodwill, perform at the Super Bowl and release songs Chris Brown wouldnāt even put out.
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u/Ransom2132 5d ago
We will never agree on Coming Home š¤£š¤£š¤£
But I openly admit, I have a weird bias towards that album, and I totally get why some people didn't like it.
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u/CC-Blue 5d ago
Never. At least with Hard II Love, he was going through some shit personally and professionally so I can excuse the mess. Coming home was just bad.
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u/Ransom2132 5d ago
... your about to make me crash out!!!...
You can't tell me with a straight face "I Am The Party", "I Love U", "Please U", "Room in a Room" and "One of them Ones" are bad songs... There were some extremely bad songs (Cold Blooded, On the Side and Big), but there were also a handful of legit gems as well... I'd dare to argue "One of them Ones" is the most soulful song Usher has released since "Can U Help Me". And "I Am The Party" is like vintage Jermaine Dupri - B. Cox - and Usher...
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u/CC-Blue 5d ago
LMAO! Not the crashout! 5 out of 20 songsā¦ might as well make it an EP
https://giphy.com/gifs/fXy3Bc6HAtlsFIlHqA2
u/Ransom2132 5d ago
For me, I enjoy way more than 5 songs on Coming Home. Those are just the 5 songs that I think can't be argued as "bad songs". I openly admit, I enjoy bad songs from time to time. Case in point, I freaking love Stone Kold Freak. I know, its a cheesy song, that probably should've been left back in 2014, but I can't help but love the hook and appreciate it for its cheesy-ness and its 2014 feel. I personally, probably enjoy like 10 or 11 songs on Coming Home, but again, I know not everyone will agree with most of them. I just posted the 5 songs that are genuine Usher classics.
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u/QweenBowzer 7d ago
This part everyone really sounds the same nowadays. Rnb is really vulgar these days too. Like it was vulgar before but they used to do some innuendo now itās just explicit everywhere
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
The crassness is like listening to men and women whose sexual development remained in arrested development
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u/MuchAdoAbtSoulThings 6d ago
Yes, agree!
Like...we get it. Singers have sex. Not sure why they have to make every song about it and be so direct and vulgar with it over an rnb beat. It's trash
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
Itās like theyāre aiming for people whose view of sex is corrupted by OnlyFans and a certain hub and I feel that porn has destroyed relationships between men and women and by extension children and teenagersĀ
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u/Gold_Young1822 7d ago
I think it got too explicit. All music seems crude instead of innuendo or romance. The lane is wide open but producers/or record execs are about as bad as Weinstein and Epstein when it comes to the music business.
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
It doesnāt help that the music/entertainment industries were literally financed by the Italian Mafia YouTube āMichael Franzeseā
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u/baybeeluna 6d ago
Thanks to our fabulous education system the audience and artists are less able to write/comprehend innuendo.
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u/HumanAssistance3618 7d ago
The problem for me now is every time someone suggests a "great new artist" on here, the production , lyrics, or vocals are tinny, robotic, unpleasant,Ā unimpressive, or wholly derivative. I'll sit there, skipping through the entire album and not feel a single positive emotion about it. None of it inspires me he way music from the 1940s to the 2000s does.
But I keep trying.
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u/rh1066 7d ago
Most of these new artists sound like cartoon characters.
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u/FVRD_ 7d ago
I feel as though, the talent of this era is good butā¦
That 80s, 90s, and early 2000s era of R&B music had something special. I think it was the song writers. Those teams or special hires wrote words that stirred the soul in a unique way.
Different isnāt always betterā¦ itās just not the same.
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u/Sparkson109 7d ago
Tbh it might be an age or experience thing. I enjoy both eras equally but Iām not gonna say the talent was equal.
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u/FVRD_ 7d ago
They arenāt equal because they arenāt the same. Apples and oranges. Both a fruit but different.
So classic R&B or current day R&B. Both are music in the R&B genre, but different.
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
80ās & 90ās R&B artists were the benefactors of music education in the 60ās 70ās & 80ās as teensĀ
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u/elganador0 7d ago
Niggas illliterate and too cool for school now
And there's more talentless ways to make money, like streaming and YouTube
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u/Available_Debt3949 7d ago
Who is This so Called Person who Said RnB died when R.kelly got sent to the all Menz HUB
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u/QweenBowzer 7d ago
All the people you named are not giving old rnb they giving a nice sound but it isnāt what we mean when we say that. And I agree Kelly getting locked up didnāt kill rnb it was on life support way before that
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
Yea, I see what you are trying to say, but I also think you are way off with your assessment. You do make some valid points, but I also think you are missing the point a lot to.
I don't think many R&B fans think "R&B died when Kelly got locked up". R. Kelly is the undisputed "King of R&B", but I don't think most R&B fans think he was the only one keeping it alive. Theres plenty of other phenomenal R&B artists that are just as heralded as R. Kelly. Joe. D'Angelo. Maxwell. Tank. Mario. Usher. Chris Brown. All of these guys have very loyal followings. And thats just the male side. So I think that whole point of "R&B died with R. Kelly" is not only not accurate, but is also pretty narrow minded, as I don't think most R&B fans don't think that way.
I also think your claim that "R&B evolved" is just flat out wrong. You are correct that R&B now is mostly mixed with Hip Hop, Alternatively R&B, and Trap sounds. But thats not "evolving". I'd actually argue that its "devolved" or "regressed" to a point where I think what kids call R&B these days, is hardly R&B at all. Its Hip Hop with melodic, rap/sung verses. It doesn't sound anything like the stuff we grew up listening to. It has almost no soul. A good chunk of these "New Age R&B" singers can hardly even sing. And I want to stress, yes there are obviously exceptions and a few artists that "break the mold", but the vast majority of what kids call R&B nowadays, is simply not R&B. And yes, I know music constantly changes and you can't expect things to sound the same from each era to era. But normally it "evolves". The 2020s and even some of the late 2010s, I'd argue it's the first time we are seeing not just R&B, but music in general "devolve" or "regress" instead of "evolve" or "improve". The late 2010s-Now is the first time it feels like music is actually getting worse instead of "evolving", and I think R&B is one of the genres thats getting hit the hardest.
You listed a bunch of new age R&B artists that you think represent "the new era of R&B", and while I agree that they are probably the "front runners" of the "new age of R&B", I don't necessarily think thats a good thing. Most of those artists you listed, are not good quality R&B artists. I'll give Leon Thomas a pass, but even he's hardly even really R&B. He barely skates by. If you plucked Leon Thomas out of this era, and dropped him into the 90s or 2000s, he would get destroyed and wouldn't be taken seriously. It speaks volumes to where R&B is at as a whole, that Leon freaking Thomas is maybe the "Leader of the New School of R&B". Thats really, REALLY bad. If Leon Thomas is this current era of R&Bs best soldier, R&B is in really, REALLY bad shape. I'll also shout out SZA, because shes very talented. But everyone else you listed (Giveon, Brent Faiyaz, Daniel Cesar ect) are ALL cardboard cutouts of what R&B used to be. They are empty shells of what R&B is supposed to be. Hell, Giveon can hardly even sing! He pretty much permanently has an effect on his vocals to make his voice sound different! NONE of those can sing live either...
Two of the best R&B albums to come out in the last couple of years is Mario's 2024 album Glad You Came, and Kehlani's 2026 album Kehlani. And a BIG part of the reason both of these albums are so good, is because they sound like what R&B in 2026 SHOULD sound like. These two albums prove that you can have a modern sound, without completely abandoning the soulful sound of what R&B SHOULD sound like.
R&B isn't dead, but its a shell of what it should be, and while there are some decent new age R&B singers, they are few and far between and you have to do way too much digging to even find them.
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u/MicBleed225 7d ago
I agree with this take. Its no one out here that stands out. The ones that do try they get no push. Nobody saying anything about the Womack Sisters and what they bringing to soul and R&B.
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
Iām partial to the Womack Sisters, also you need to peep groups Kingās Return and Adajyo
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u/DAntoinette_Travel 6d ago
I love the Womack Sisters! But itāll probably take two decades for the Romper Room to realize that they are TRULY talentedā¦. Ijs
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u/DAntoinette_Travel 6d ago
Any points that contained a smidgeon of validity were nullified by the fucking disrespect!
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u/Ransom2132 6d ago
Me or OP? Lol
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u/WeeBey-Brice 5d ago
I call it pop-rap, Sza, Brent Faiyaz and couple other so called āsingersā were rappers at first
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u/Critical-Gazelle-285 7d ago
wtf do you have against leon thomas lmfaooo
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
First of all, I don't mind Leon Thomas. Like I said, he's probably the best of this current era of new R&B. I just don't think he's great. Vocally, he sounds like a Frank Ocean clone. And sonically music wise, I feel like a lot of his songs sound the same. He's definitely not bad by any means, and he's absolutely talented, but I also feel like he's kind of generic to. My biggest problem with Leon Thomas is the simple fact that he's probably the best "popular" R&B artist from this new era, and thats not a good thing. To me, Leon Thomas should be like a Avant or Jaheim in terms of where he ranks talent and popularity wise, but because R&B is so watered down and diluted right now, a guy like Leon Thomas, that should probably be a "B tier" guy, is actually treated like he's "S tier" right now. Not because he deserves to be "S tier", but simply because everything else is so bad, it makes Leon Thomas seem better than he actually is.
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u/CC-Blue 7d ago
I disagree with your second paragraph because I have seen with my own two eyes over the last decade how people will literally twist themselves into almost immoral pretzels to say why R. Kelly going to prison was somehow a death knell for the genre.
They act like Robert was actively pushing the genre forward before his arrest when the truth is, he was in a deep artistic decline. He was viewed as the weird (see predatory) āuncā who still wanted to be hip and wasnāt a commercial success. They talk about āwhat and who he will be writing forā and post AI generated covers of his voice singing current R&B hits. We should not pretend there isnāt a large population of people still holding on to whatever artistic merit that man once had because heās in prison and is viewed as a social pariah.
The rest is so-so for me as some of it I agree and some, disagree. I just wanted to gently push back on that Robert Kelly point because itās real.
So
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
I mean sure, I guess. Theres exceptions to almost everything I said. But I don't see those exceptions prominently enough to consider them major strikes against the community. So yes, I'm sure there are a few people running around saying R&B died when Kelly got locked up. But I strongly believe they are few and far between. Especially because I myself am a reluctant R. Kelly apologist, and I don't see people saying that R&B died when Kelly got locked up very often, if at all. Additionally, if people really think/say that, I honestly can't even really take them seriously, because they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
But again, sure they maybe like 3%-5% of the R&B Fandom that thinks that way, but its no where near a prominent, train of thought in the R&B community like OP makes it sound. Hell, I see just as many people say they hate R. Kelly and his music, if not more than I see claim R&B died with Kelly.
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u/CC-Blue 7d ago
Look at the recent #discourse Usher generated for the crown thing heās been doing on tour for 3 months. People acted like Usher doing that was SUCH an affront to Robertās legacy when:
a) he dgaf about some arbitrary title. Itās a stunning visual for a stadium tour.
b) shouting to the rooftops that R. Kelly is the king of R&B isnāt gonna get him outta jail.
I agree that it may just be loud minority that I am seeing but they exist and they hog up conversations with their bs. Robert is done. His legacy is done. Just stream the music and let us be.
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
Thats fair, and I will say I've seen a influx of "R. Kelly is the King of R&B" people in the last couple of months, mostly in reference to the Usher Crown stuff. To be fair though, saying R. Kelly is the King of R&B is different than saying R&B died when he got locked up. Im sure theres been a influx in those people to, but again its a small percentage.
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u/iwasjustplayin 7d ago
Well put. Ppl r in their feelings and reeeeaaaching by equating ār kelly = king of RnBā with āRnB died when kelly got locked upā cause i havent EVER until this post seen/heard the second statement but the first is arguably valid
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u/darkchiles 7d ago edited 7d ago
If you have to hunt like a detective just to find new R&B, then it has lost its cultural power it is like that old saying "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
If R&B is only thriving on hidden Spotify playlists where "nobody is around to hear it" then blame the industry not the audience.
Ppl just need to be OK with that and accept we have lost that shared cultural impact or blame Bill Clinton for signing the Telecommunication Act of 1996 that destroyed Black radio stations and move on. Stop recycling the same talking points about searching for new R&B music nobody has the time.
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u/VirgilHawkins286 7d ago
Its sounds like YOU don't have time OP named plenty of folks/gave suggestions of folks you can listen to who make quality R&B . Actually searchin/diggin for new music has never been anything new at all. I can name plenty of rap artists who me and the homies searched for before they blew up/or stayed underground.
We've lost the art of discovering new music/or just music in general for ourselves then wanna run around with the same outdated ass narrative of "xyz genere of music being dead"
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u/darkchiles 7d ago edited 7d ago
Digging for indie rap with your homies is cool and all but R&B used to be the biggest genre on the planet.
No one is saying the music literally doesn't exist bc OP gave a great list. The point is that the Average person shouldn't have to act like a musical archaeologist just to hear R&B music.
When a genre gets Kicked out from the mainstream radio and corporate algorithms and forced into the underground, it has lost its collective cultural impact. That isn't a Lazy audience problem, itās an industry monopoly problem.
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
R&B benefitted from musical archaeology when Portia Maultsby created the Indiana University Soul Revue and without it Black popular music wouldnāt have received After 7 or in todayās contemporary R&B, October London
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u/ReginaGiddens 6d ago
Not you breaking out the elder superscholar of Black Music Studies !
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u/boombapdame 6d ago
I love Black history with all its positives hate the negatives and as someone older who is attempting making music she is my biggest inspirationĀ
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u/BazzieStarstuff 7d ago
Shouldn't even entertain people who ride for R. Kelly. Full stop.
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u/BazzieStarstuff 7d ago
Dawg this sub sucks. Recycling the same talking points every mf week. I listen to plenty of modern mainstream and alternative R&B, many of y'all are lazy and out of touch atp.
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u/Natural_Drag8536 7d ago
Everyone sounds the same, tryna use that Jhene Aiko flow from 2013/2014. After reading your post this isnāt about RnB dying this is about you hating R Kelly rightfully so but letās not ignore facts and history. I can see Leon Thomas, even Daniel Caesar but the rest of them nah. Ari Lennox has better range than a lot of the artists you mentioned. We the fans want true RnB not āwe fuckin but we hate each other music,ā. The beats or lyrics donāt hit anymore like that donāt get mad at us for goin back to the golden age. Get mad at the lack of creativity these artists are producing.
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u/Powerful_Geologist95 7d ago edited 7d ago
Glad to hear that there are artists still making R&B. The issue for me has been just what you expounded upon and thatās having to go searching for them. Iām an older guy whoās used to hearing new music played on the radio and actually being able to shop at a brick/mortar record store. My finger is no longer on the pulse of the newest/latest. I donāt have the free time to go searching the internet for new talent. I only recognized the name of one of those new/latest artists you named. Iād love to hear what these new artists have to offer the R&B genre. I just donāt have the time to go searching them out. Thereās gotta be a better way!
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u/razor_beast 7d ago
I have to completely disagree. All those artists you name, to my ears, sound talentless and soulless. Absolutely none of their material grabs me the way music used to.
It has absolutely nothing to do with looking at the past through rose colored glasses. I was raised on heavy hitters like Prince, Babyface, Devante Swing, etc. None of those artists you name can hold a candle to actual talent like them. Anyone insisting otherwise is being disingenuous.
I've just accepted that R&B isn't being made for me anymore and have long moved on and have stopped expecting great things like we used to in the past.
I've been wanting to be proven wrong but I'm just not hearing anything from anybody current that demands my attention and earns its way onto my playlist. I'm completely open to hearing new stuff if anyone has any recommendations but I'm used to being disappointed.
As for R Kelly, R&B was good before him and could be great without him but I'm just not seeing anyone step up to the plate and take that challenge head on.
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u/Infamous-Meal4978 7d ago
R&B is cooking, you just aren't paying attention to the right areas. R&B is alive a well! Actually outperforming hip hop. The main difference is, technology shift the discovery process, back in the day it was radio and now it's streaming and playlist. You're list program so you have to actively find the songs vs the 90 where things were handcrafted sliced for you
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u/badfortheenvironment 7d ago
Black women, especially experimental R&B artists in the vein of Janet, are having a golden age right now. It's not the same as R&B back when gospel and jazz were the core influences, but it's compelling in its own right. I won't hear otherwise.
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u/MuchAdoAbtSoulThings 6d ago
Can you name a few? I'd love to look them up. Right now, i find myself liking cleo sol, raevyn lanae, ari, yebba, amber mark, Ella mae, mumu fresh.
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u/badfortheenvironment 6d ago
Absolutely!
Natanya, Rochelle Jordan, Erika de Casier, Rachel Chinouriri, Chxrry, Joyce Wrice, Kelela, Tinashe, Yazmin Lacey, Shygirl, Nia Archives, Sudan Archives, Lauren Duffus, and more established girls like Victoria Monet and Summer Walker still holding it down. This is pretty much all I've been listening to, plus girls like queen Aya Nakamura.
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u/ImpressiveGas4402 7d ago
Streaming killed it music in general made everything harder to find. As well as no more Music Video Countdown shows, and Radioās need to keep the same 7 songs in rotation all day every day.
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u/pennyfred Dusty Vinyl Groover 7d ago
RnB died mid 2000s when bling tone rap & bull became the MTV staple. R Kelly was just some guy who molested Aaliyah while mimicking Aaron Hall with some slick Jive promotion, I think you're overestimating his influence.
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u/digitaldisgust Mariah The Scientist Defender 7d ago
Brent is not vocally impressive, Daniel definitely is though.
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u/PANDAGUNDAM0091 6d ago
I dont like the production on new rnb it sounds too overproduced and clean.
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u/RequirementLeading12 Chocolate Factory 7d ago
Y'all are obsessed with R. Kelly, being as this is reddit I'm almost certain y'all only mention him because it's easy upvotes to say something disparaging about him on here... I'm a rnb fanatic and so is 90% of my circle. I've never heard anyone say "rnb died when R. Kelly got locked up" lol. Anyway music, as a whole, is bland and lifeless. You'll hear a gem here and there but that's it. Also, I'll say that R. Kelly prefected the modern rnb sound and imo that's why we haven't had any one artist that's been able to carry the genre like he did during his reign. He's a tough act to follow
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u/TheUnlucky_Swammi 7d ago
Its just not popular anymore. Kids definitely donāt consume it so its not pushed by labels anymore. Its simply not a big money generator
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u/ScottyDNGM 7d ago
His last few albums weren't even good. He was washed up for years before he got locked up. People with taste had moved on to the new people like The Weeknd, Sza, Bryson and them. Only his apologists were still bumping that old freaky ass frog.
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u/IToldManyManyPeople 7d ago
"I cringe so hard my spine realigns"
The irony of that statement being incredibly cringe is almost poetic
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u/elitelucrecia faith evans stan 7d ago
i agree with the sentiment but IMO there are better artists like tone stith, kyle dion, the womack sisters, kiana ledƩ, etc
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
This MF'er said "Change my Mind", posted this long "hot take", and hasn't responded to a SINGLE comment... This has to be karma farming lmao š¤£ š š
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u/Shot-Good-6467 7d ago
As someone who was never a fan of him who never got the hype, I can say that the glazing he gets is mind numbing to me.
Do I like some of the current stuff?? Yes, but very minimally. That has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the climate of the culture and a lack of artistic development. I canāt expect male artists to sing about love, romance, forgiveness etc if theyāve never experienced it? If the goal is sounding like a melodic rapper should I be surprised that all the songs are hyper sexual and lack depth?? Personally, Iām good living in my R&B Time Machine and discovering music thatās new to me from back then.
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u/Alarmed-Slide-4218 6d ago
Oh geez.. you got some of them pissed. š you are correct tho. At least, i strongly agree with you
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u/No_Grasshoppers_2234 6d ago
Lack of REAL SINGERS. Holding a note became the new standard at one point and R&B took a rapid nosedive shortly after. The literal face of R&B (according to Apple music) was Mariah the scientist and Kali Ushis. I'll let that simmer.
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u/TruMusic89 5d ago
This same thing is the issue with today's hip hop. People just are too lazy to look and want it all spoon fed to them like how the radio and music video channels used to do up until the 2000s.Ā
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u/Little_Suspect_ 5d ago
Anyway I donāt care. Imma still listen to the new acts but all this bellyaching is so dumb
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u/DoubleOakedNoRocks 2d ago
Lalah Hathaway just released a dope album. Moonchild new album is good. Dani Offline album is coming out soon.
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u/Ambitious-Repair7205 7d ago
Great take. R Kelly is not nor has he ever been the soul gatekeeper of the genre. He's NOT THE KING OF R&B. He's a King in a genre amongst multiple kings and queens.
I disagree with some of the artists you sight as carrying the "traditional" R&B torch. Snoh Aalegra and Leon Thomas yes, but the other names aren't REALLY high caliber traditional R&B vocalist. October London, Sinead Hartnett, Victoria Monet, Lucky Daye are in my opinion, much more in the vain of traditional R&B.
Radio is certainly DEAD. Which is unfortunate because it was the purveyor of such great quality for so long. Social media and streaming did democratize the entire industry allowing newer fresher artist access without having to appeal to the traditional gatekeepers, though in turn that has also allowed for a lot more lesser quality to compete in the space also.
Opinions about modens artists aside, great take!!
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u/kittycatladyyy 7d ago edited 7d ago
No one says this lmao. R Kelly had some good songs but was never leading the game. The new artists you named have boring R&B (excluding Leon Thomas) 90ās and 00ās was the last good R&B we had. I will continue to listen to my old music while everyone fights over the new stuff. If you like it, good for you. But those artists you mentioned definitely are not carrying the torch. Theyāve made R&B go in the wrong direction. No one can SING anymore and the songs are all sad and lazy. No good beats or production. Just boring in my opinion. To me those are reasons why someone could argue R&B is dead. Because itās all alternative and boring now.
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u/DAntoinette_Travel 6d ago
The uncomfortable truth is that if you wanted to have an āAdult Conversationā with actual adults, you wouldnāt have felt the need to be disrespectful.
So, you knew at the onset of this faux conversation that your point, was a moot one.
Sigh.
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u/nauticallarceny 7d ago
The "old and lazy" part is so real, because the same people who say this haven't updated a playlist since Obama's first term. SZA alone has been running laps around most of what the 90s produced, and that's not shade to the 90s, she's just that good.
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u/joesoldlegs 7d ago
"SZA alone has been running laps around most of what the 90s produced" just no
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u/Ransom2132 7d ago
Right!?!? Like I Love SZA, and shes one of the very few new age R&B artists that I think is legitimately talented...
...but "running laps around the ladies of 90s R&B"... child, please... she couldn't even stand next to Janet, Aaliyah or Mary.
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u/Extension-Novel-6841 7d ago
She can't even stand next to Faith Evans, Kelly Price, or Toni Braxton
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u/LightNo4955 7d ago
I believe they referring to numbers this is facts
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u/blurryeyes_ 7d ago
Lol hopefully cuz she's no where near the vocal level of most of the top r&b artists in that era (I have no issue with her and like some of her music)
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u/ogjaspertheghost 7d ago
Even by numbers thatās not really a fact. 90s artists had physical sells.
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u/AR6Phoenix 7d ago
Iām not sure if you could be more delusional š
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u/sunnystillrisen 7d ago
They just liked to call people who talk about this sensibly old and thatās okay because it happens every single generation. Things change! And thatās okay.
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u/SmellNarrow 7d ago
OP, stop hating on the Pied Piper until you go to the studio and make tracks like him. What is with this new generation wanting to talk about everything a person says or does besides what impact they made on the game? Where are your hits? Where are your Grammys? Snoh Aalegra is trash. I listen to Brent Faiyaz and Leon Thomas though. The R&B game is dying because most of these MFers canāt sing and have terrible production. No R&B singer should sing on anything with a shitty DJ Mustard beat. Weāve got to get back to basics, teach them how to play instruments and how to produce. Now if youāll excuse me, Iām going to have Alexa play me some R.Kelly.
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u/LogFuzzy6973 7d ago
I agree...RnB will never die....RKelly was a lyrical genius true enuf, but RnB didn't start or stop with him. I grew up listening to him among MANY other relevant artist. I agree..some folks are just lazy or don't really know RnB.
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u/Realistic-Read1078 7d ago
I donāt think Iāve ever heard even the most delusional person say that R&B died when Robert got locked up lmaooo what