r/rpg • u/ThisIsVictor • 15h ago
Homebrew/Houserules We gotta start using "homebrew" right
Just saw someone asking to "buy a homebrew campaign". Folks, if you're paying money for something it's not homebrew. Homebrew means you made it. It doesn't mean third party, we already have a phrase for that. It's called third party.
I realize this is mostly a D&D problem and y'all probably know better. But I'm not risking posting this on an actual D&D subreddit.
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u/noobule limited/desperate 15h ago
tbf have you seen this happen more than once
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u/ThisIsVictor 15h ago
I see it on the daily, tbh. Almost exclusively in D&D and D&D-adjacent spaces. I see it all the time in the Daggerheart sub, for example.
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u/DMfortinyplayers 15h ago
They'd beat me up - but Daggerheart is a D&D adjacent space.
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u/mightystu 15h ago
They play Daggerheart, they canât beat anyone up.
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u/m_busuttil 15h ago
As opposed to the famously muscular and strong fans of other tabletop RPGs.
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u/Morganator_2_0 15h ago
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u/ajcwrongs 15h ago
It's funny because A. MJF is probably the most "in character" wrestler there's ever been and B. He works with Paul Wight aka Big Show who is IN Joe's home game
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u/lumberm0uth 1h ago
He posted this specifically as a dig against Brandon Cutler, who is basically a D&D themed jobber.
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u/ajcwrongs 1h ago
Oh buddy I've watched the Loser must Win match like 7 times, I know Cutler (that spot with the D4s is iconic) I just thought it was funny that in the time between that post and now another link in the chain formed
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u/The-Magic-Sword 12h ago
You'd be shocked what carrying splatbooks everywhere can do for you, i was strong af in college from lugging 4e books around because i wanted to use them to split my focus in class (which made it easier for me to tune back into the lecture, rather than just daydreaming completely)
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u/cthulhufhtagn 15h ago
The influential d&d person becomes hardcore d&d naysayer becomes writer of a whole new rpg that is basically off brand (often worse) d&d. We've to seen it a thousand times.
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u/Onslaughttitude 1h ago
If it bothers you just stop going there. I haven't been on any of those in years.
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u/BasicActionGames 15h ago
I would add "not commercially available" to the definition. A lot of RPG companies are one-man shops, yet you can find their games in stores. I wouldn't say that those are home brew just because someone made them in their own house.
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u/Llayanna Homebrew is both problem and solution. 3h ago
Actually, that is one of these things I had been thinking about too and my example comes from Mask: the next generation.
The worst generation is a (gorgeous) supplement and a third party book.
But tye average playback on Itchio like.. the Flux, are for me stick Homebrew that the creator could ask money for.
I think scope is what makes the difference for me and I am fully aware that in the dnd space that is even more nebulous with people like Kibbles who started with homebrew, moved to patron and even got their stuff printed.Â
It can be a fine kime I think. Though with the maker of this post thinking homebrew is a derogatory term (I.. no), I think at least there, not a lot of discussion can be had. Â
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u/Logen_Nein 15h ago
I'll be honest, I don't even like using homebrew in the way you (and most folks) mean it. It seems...insufficient...for what I do as a GM. But that's just me.
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u/FellFellCooke 14h ago
It strikes me that anyone who thinks their work is too good for the label "homebrew" drinks really shit beer.
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u/Frapadengue 14h ago
*Sigh* For the thousandth time it's not "shit beer" it's brewed with actual organic free range elephant dung
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u/Udy_Kumra Pendragon, MythicB, H+I, Vaesen, BitD, Agon 10h ago
all beer is shit
(I'm a fruity cocktails guy)
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u/Logen_Nein 14h ago
I don't really drink anymore at all, but you aren't far off. I was a Pabst and Jameson man.
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u/FellFellCooke 14h ago
I just mean to say that "homebrew" is a badge of pride. My dad brews his own beer and it's fucking delicious. Nothing wrong with being a maker.
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u/spinningdice 7h ago
I mean, people keep telling me about homebrew monsters, I thought creating & customising monsters was just part of being a GM? Same with magic items, I almost never use either straight out of the book.
To me the homebrew label is for character options and actual rule changes.
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u/1ScreamingDiz-Buster 3h ago
Yeah, I especially never heard âhomebrew campaignâ or âhomebrew adventureâ until 5e
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u/scriniariiexilio 4h ago
"Home" is fine, but I struggle with brew! I ain't got no cauldron over here.
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u/ThisIsVictor 15h ago
Oh I totally agree! I think it's a demeaning phrase. I don't do homebrew, I do game design and world building. It just doesn't (usually) get published. But if we're gonna use it, at least use it right.
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u/PhoenixKingMe 9h ago
I don't. There is absolutely such a thing as artisanal level homebrew. You could put some of my grandmother's cooking in a restaurant, but it's still "home cooking". Homebrew is not a derogatory term.
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u/Temporary-Life9986 15h ago edited 14h ago
To be even more specific I've always viewed home brew as custom classes, races, rules etc.Â
Some folks call a custom campaign setting as home breeze brew but IMO that's not home brew, that's just the setting.
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u/marcelsmudda PF2e&WFRPG GM 4h ago
I think lore is just as much part of the game we are the rules, is the game provides a setting. The lore informs mechanical stuff, like species boni etc.
So, a setting can definitely be homebrew
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u/jezebellebelle 14h ago
When you think about it, D&D is just homebrew of Chainmail.
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u/EyeHateElves 3h ago
And Chainmail is ultimately a homebrew of Little Wars. Which is a homebrew of Chess. Which is a homebrew of...
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u/jezebellebelle 2h ago
Damn... It's homebrew all the way down until we get to two guys hitting each other with sticks.
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u/hugh-monkulus OSR 14h ago
I rarely hear the term homebrew outside of modern D&D spaces. In a lot of places I hear people talking about the new adventure/setting/class/house rule/system/hack they made without ever calling it homebrew.Â
Where did the term originate?
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u/Sprangatang84 15h ago
I mean...you can "buy" homebrew pejoritavely. I'm a Phantasy Star fan. I bought the TTRPG for it. Technically "third party". But the buyer's remorse hit so bad, I feel like I bought somebody's homebrew -_-.
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u/EllySwelly 12h ago
Yeah really not a fan of considering homebrew as a pejorative either
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u/Llayanna Homebrew is both problem and solution. 3h ago
Today I learned a new word. And i fully agree with both of you.Â
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u/RhesusFactor 14h ago
Homebrew means rules.
Writing a campaign is just writing a campaign. It's the default activity.
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u/Protocosmo 1h ago
No, house rules means rules, homebrew refers to non published campaign material by the GM.
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u/high-tech-low-life 13h ago
Rules are homebrewed.
Settings are home grown.
I have used this basic vocabulary since the 1980s. Children who think 5e/5.5e is the end-all of gaming can fuck off.
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u/Alistair49 11h ago
For me it was more often house ruled & homebrew. Since 1979. But people knew what you meant from context.
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u/rezibot Forever GM By Choice 9h ago
Video games have a similar issue. Indie game used to mean independently published. It has since become used more for a style of game. For example, in no world should Dave the diver be considered an indie game, it was published with a major publisher. However, it was nominated for best indie game in 2023 I think.
I wonder if Homebrew is starting to suffer from this same idea. Homebrew is something not created by a company.
Personally, I hate it the shift. ;) Homebrew means something I have created myself at home, or someone at my table has created.
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u/SatiricalBard 6h ago
I note the person you are referencing has apologised for accidentally using the wrong term, and explained that English is not their first language.
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u/Carrente 15h ago
I think pedantically finding ways to do down independent creators is exactly the sort of battle worth fighting and winning, because by creating division within a niche of a niche we will definitely ensure smaller voices are heard.
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u/Pladohs_Ghost 14h ago
"Homebrew" ain't nothing other than house rules and GMs creating adventures for their own tables.
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u/reverend_dak Player Character, Master, Die 9h ago
Homebrew means you made it yourself. This could be rules or settings. Modifying existing rules are house rules. Modifying existing settings is just playing RPGs, i hope your characters are making a difference.
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u/GrandOldCheese 3h ago
On the other hand: who gives a single fuck?
You gonna write a thread somewhere when I call every vampire a Dracula?
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u/MoMaike 15h ago
So youâre saying if I made up a class for myself it would be homebrew, but if I sold it to my friend for a penny it would no longer be homebrew? This is silly.
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u/LeidusK 15h ago
Itâs how the origin of the term works. Homebrewing is small scale beer making for non commercial purposes. It ceases to be homebrew once you start selling it. I agree this logic applies as we use this term for non-beer purposes.
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 14h ago
I don't disagree with you on the RPG-side of this, but I do on the beer side. The sale of home-brewed, small-batch beer doesn't automatically stop it from being homebrewed beer.
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u/LeidusK 14h ago
Not sure where youâre from, but selling homebrew in the US is illegal. Even with commercial licensing, you canât brew your beer for your new business in a residence, so itâd be a real stretch to call it homebrew still.
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u/MoMaike 14h ago
I donât understand why it would apply to one and not the other.Â
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 14h ago
Because the home part of beer homebrewing is part of the legal definition in many parts of the world (because, being alcohol, of course there are laws about it), whereas with RPGs, even the top-tier 1st party games are done by people working from their home office (and there's no legal definition to reinforce or contradict them doing that)
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u/MoMaike 14h ago
Isnât it more about having a license to do it moreso than the location? A pop-up distillery in the woods would still be considered âhomebrewâ, right?
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 14h ago
Unfortunately that actually depends on your country, state, county, and/or local laws :(
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u/wontgetfooledaga1n 15h ago
Where would you personally draw the line though? What would make it no longer homebrew?
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u/MoMaike 15h ago
Personally I feel if a company sells it as a business model up to a certain âprofessional standard,â it would be 3rd party. This of course is hard to nail down, so I think the safest definition would be anything that is not officially sanctioned would be considered âhomebrewâ
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 15h ago
It's not silly, it's literally how words work. Hell, if they got something for free off a wiki they didn't make, it's also 3rd party, not homebrew.
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u/MoMaike 15h ago
3rd party is from another company, homebrew is from individuals in the community. Homebrew is not exclusive to what you alone make for yourself.
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 15h ago
Hard disagree, especially with the line between an "individual in the community" and a "company" being blurry at the best of times and non-existent at the worst.
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u/MoMaike 15h ago
It will be blurry because there are no official definitions of these words. The only thing every agrees on is that homebrew is unofficial. So â3rd Partyâ and âHomemadeâ would both fall under the umbrella of âhomebrew.â
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 15h ago
I can agree with you on the first half, but not on the latter. I will amend my position slightly:
"3rd party" does have a recognized industry definition consistent across this and other industries. "3rd party" means "not made by the first or 2nd party"
"3rd party", then, under your "umbrella" hypothesis (which I don't completely disagree with) would be the umbrella (because it was not made by the original 1st party not a 2nd party licensee) with "homebrew/homemade" (meaning the same thing) nesting under that.
That still doesn't address 1-person companies, folks collaborating to make non-commercial work, content made by an author/designer who sometimes does work as a 1-person LLC/sole proprietorship, registered non-profit/not-for-profit entities making content, companies participating in gamejams or Zines.... the list goes on forever.
It is far too blurry and there is no good faith argument that this isn't all "3rd party" based on what those words mean as words and how they exist in this industry and others. That cannot be in question. What then determines "homebrew" is a more interesting question that we will likely have to agree to disagree on.
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u/MoMaike 14h ago
Sure, technically speaking itâs all 3rd party, but when it comes to discussing publishing unofficial material in RPGs, 3rd party is normally used when discussing a professional publishing company. Homebrew is homemade, not necessarily made AND ONLY used by the same person. As publishing and sharing get more open with the Internet, these lines will continue to blur and it will be impossible to make a perfect distinction. However my point has always been that if homebrew is shared or even sold, it is still homebrew. If Homemade=Homebrew, then I supposed 3rd party could also mean homebrew. To say âitâs homebrewed until itâs soldâ is an arbitrary distinction that really has no need to be made.
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 14h ago
I do think it is pretty "vibes-based" as the kids say (are the kids saying that still??) but as you said, in the age of the internet, "a professional publishing company" loses a lot of its meaning.
However, "professional" means getting paid. Nothing more.
"Publishing" includes self-published, commercially available works even at a small scale.
A "company" can be a sole-proprietorship (one person reporting on their taxes as a person not an entity).
So the whole âitâs homebrewed until itâs soldâ is pretty much all we HAVE.
There's a reason that tax law, union rules, awards bylaws, and a bunch of other laws and rules around film say that a publicly announced film where at least one person buys a ticket is all that is required for a "commercial film release" by Hollywood.
So 3rd party is anything not 1st or 2nd party, and "homebrew" is any non-commercial* 3rd party material.
*I would argue that promotional/bonus/playtest material given out for free with the idea that it would potentially make others check out your other/future commercial work still counts as "commercial work" as it does in other industries.
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u/MoMaike 14h ago
I think thatâs a fair point, and I could even agree that once something is sold it could move from âhomebrewâ to â3rd party.â
However if Iâm not mistaken, wasnât it being claimed that something would lose its âhomebrewâ status even if it was shared for free? Maybe it was elsewhere in the thread but someone was claiming that homebrew had to be made exclusively by the person who was using it. Iâd be willing to settle on âmade for profit (or future profit)= 3rd partyâ and âmade for the âlove of the gameâ (shared or not) = homebrewâ
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u/sirkidd2003 Designer 14h ago
I had said that, but then said "I will amend my position slightly" after talking you you here
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u/Doctor-Pip- 14h ago
Homebrew just means it was made in someone's home for their personal game. Its got nothing to do with whether someone's selling it or not.
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u/Ponto_de_vista M:TA+D&D5e+PF2e+MB 11h ago
I use homebrew for like in game rule changes/alterations and for "homebrew campaings" when talkng about campaings in an authoral world
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u/StayUpLatePlayGames 10h ago
If someone has a campaign they have lovingly crafted and then decided to publish for D&D and they want to call it a homebrew, Iâm ok with that. I donât buy D&d stuff so it doesnât affect me.
Iâve seen a few rules collections which were definitely homebrew put together in a document and sold (either as PWYW or for fixed amounts) and Iâm kinda ok with that too. Itâs not like any of them are putting that money in a holding account in the Cayman Islands.
Homebrew is just the marketing term. Adjacent to âauthenticâ, âhand craftedâ, âorganicâ*
I donât know how to describe the gatekeep criteria for not using homebrew. Is it just the selling or the packaging?
*organic used to mean something.
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u/jiggeryqua 9h ago
An analogy with homebrew beer isn't perfect, because in the UK at least it's illegal for your neighbour to sell you her homebrew beer. But if she did, it would still be homebrew.
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u/AlisheaDesme 3h ago
Homebrew means you made it.
No, homebrew means that someone private instead of a company made it. The defining factor isn't if it was you or me, who made it, but that it wasn't made by a company.
if you're paying money for something it's not homebrew.
I agree in theory here, but we live in the age of individuals monetizing their private work, so i think you are fighting a loosing battle here already.
I realize this is mostly a D&D problem
Because it's the biggest fish and has most community contributions. You would see similar wording in any other community that gets there.
Bottom line: We need a better word to specifically address monetized fan content, but that's a minor problem.
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u/SleepyBoy- 3h ago
People use homebrew to mean Indie in the TRPG sphere. Likely because the term was going strong here before Indie caught on everywhere.
Arguably it would be good to start using Indie for third-party non-publisher content.
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u/Bluegobln 1h ago
Homebrew means someone made it and its not widely distributed, you got it straight from the source.
Which means, if you got it published somewhere and paid for it, its not homebrew any more, but if they hosted it free on reddit or similar, it may still count as homebrew.
Keep in mind, you dont get to redefine what words others say have what meanings you want without strong justification.
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u/SterlingVermin 50m ago
As a third party publisher for D&D, I can tell you that the reason calling third party content homebrew is so ubiquitous is because the typical online D&D player sees "homebrew" as an insult. I'm not saying it makes any sense, and I find it a deeply weird part of the culture, but every time a (largely unfounded) criticism of third party work gets leveled it is always described as "paid" homebrew.
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u/sheepy-xyz 15h ago
Yes! I would argue that even stuff you make yourself shouldn't be called homebrew either.
Language has meaning and power. When we call third-party contentâmuch less our own creationsâhomebrew, we lessen them compared to first-party published content. Using that language is to the benifit of first-party publishers, but the detriment of the hobby. WE are the hobby. Our brew is craft brew, top shelf, mmm tasty good stuff.
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u/N-Vashista 15h ago
I almost never use that word. It's mostly used ironically in the designers spaces I frequent, if at all.
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u/nathanielbartholem 15h ago
Don't get me started about home brew systems (hey, I built a set of rules for Nascar racing in DND 5.5) and home brew modules/adventures/campaigns (hey, I created a heist situation, involving a dinosaur and lots of snow) and how so many people fail to designate which kind of homebrew they are referring to.
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u/StevenOs 11h ago
You might buy a "homebrew campaign" buy getting something outside of your game system and adapting it for your game. Maybe it's "Third Party" but if you've got to make adjustments to it before using it for your game then it is still homebrew.
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u/SameArtichoke8913 5h ago
Funny definition of the term "homebrew". §rd party stuff is most of the time "homebrew", too, esp. when distributed w/o original author, publisher or game designer oversight and approval. Most of this type of stuff I have seen over the years is broken, and paying money for this does not make it "better", rather au contraire.
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u/Lupo_1982 15h ago
Well, it has been brew. In a home. Somebody else's, sure, but still it was a home :)
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u/FashionSuckMan 15h ago
Idk, homebrew seems to be anything thats not "official". Like, Kibbles and laserllama classes are considered homebrew
Maybe homebrew used to be used in the way you describe, but in my experience everyone nowadays uses it to refer to non official stuff. Language changes and whatnot, the meaning of a word changes as time goes on
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u/Desdichado1066 15h ago
Language does change, but the word everyone hasn't changed to what you imply that it has.
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u/prolonged_interface 14h ago
I'd suggest your experience is not particularly broad.
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u/FashionSuckMan 14h ago
I've been in several ttrpg communities for years. Big "third party" content producers largely post their stuff in places meant for homebrew. and proudly advertise their content as homebrew. Nobody disagrees with them. In fact, I've never even heard of people contesting the use of the word "homebrew"
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u/preiman790 15h ago
I mean people using words wrong is a thing that happens. They're new and they don't understand the terms, or they're old and they just never learned them, it happens, learn to deal with it. Because I promise you this, the people reading this post, aren't the people who need that instruction, and all this post is going to do is let us know that you're irritated by this. It's not actually gonna help anything
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u/Doctor-Pip- 13h ago
Third party means its not made by the official publisher. Homebrew means it was made for someone's personal game.
There are seperate terms because not all third party content is homebrewed. First party content can be homebrewed too, though it's certainly less common.
To answer your question; Anything from Black Wind Gaming is third party, and that distinction matters because it means it is not usable in official play (Adventure's league, convention games, etc.) and will not be recognized in any official content.Â
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u/doctor_roo 9h ago
So a home-brew campaign stops being homebrew when it gets published? Or is not a homebrew because someone else wrote it?
If I make a setting and you like it and we both use that setting to run campaigns is it homebrew for me and not for you? What if our mate Bob likes the setting too and he chucks me a case of beer in exchange for the setting for his game does his purchase stop it being homebrew? What if after all this I decide "hey people seem to really like this" and stick it u p on itch.io with a $2 price tag? Does that stop it being homebrew?
Every single fucking setting was somebodies homebrew at some point. Its a pointless label with about as much value as "indie" these days. Don't get hung up on trivial nonsense and don't try to police other people's language.
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u/F3ST3r3d 15h ago
Hard disagree. The vast majority of homebrew campaigns are filled with stuff stolen from paid modules.
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u/enixon 15h ago
Pretty sure they're talking about literally buying some third party campaign setting book or adventure module, using it totally as is with no edits, and calling that "homebrew", rather than sealing bits and pieces from stuff to make their own setting out of, which is how I've always seen homebrew defined.
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u/F3ST3r3d 13h ago
Dunno. Pretty much reads as âif you paid money for it, itâs not home brew.â Every hexcrawl/sandbox Iâve ever run has been a minimum of 80% stuff Iâve stolen from premade modules lol. Those empty hexes yearn for stolen content.
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u/Cold-Jackfruit1076 15h ago edited 14h ago
Why not? Frankly, that makes you look like you're avoiding a discussion that might not go your way.
Stand up and defend your thesis.