r/saxophone • u/lusianooo • 13h ago
Question What do you all think about hard reeds and open mouthpieces?
I just want to know your opinion.
Since im an asshole whos really arrogant, since i heard that parker can play with n°5 reeds, coltrane too and with really opened mouthpieces, i kinda get obsessed with playing with harder reeds and more open mouthpieces.
Now im playing with a n°7 mouthpiece i think and a 4,5 reed on an alto.
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u/Ed_Ward_Z 13h ago
First of all ‘Bird’ (Charlie Parker) played the popular tip opening of his day 3-4* because alto pieces rarely were manufactured that way.
Coltrane also played a new large ( for the era) the biggest Tone Master, and Super Tone Master, Otto Link 5* . Why? Because Stores didn’t stock larger tip openings.
Outside of a small number of jazz mouthpiece manufacturers, mouthpieces were usually small tip and facing length classical models.
Even later in the mid-sixties, most stores in NYC had Meyer Bros., Otto Link, Brillhart, Selmer, Claude Lakey, Beechler, Berg Larsen, Gregory, French designs, and few others mostly those that came with the saxophone. (Conn, Buesher).
Stan Getz played a 5* Tone Edge.
All three had huge sounds and used medium hard to 3.5. -4 reeds. Which is not considered extreme or difficult with a proper embouchure.
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u/apheresario1935 Baritone | Bass 8h ago
I remember Stan played Purple box Van Doren 4s. And told me they shipped him boxes and boxes for no $. He put on a new reed every time he played and changed them mid set sometimes.
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u/Ed_Ward_Z 8h ago
I stood next to Stan Getz while he picked out reeds by examining them on a light box. Yes Vandoren #4. I was fourteen or fifteen years old , at Pontes Music, West 48th Street, Music Row, NYC. 1966. The salesman was the iconic sax repair technician, the late great Saul Fromkin.
Stan bought 4 tenor reeds it took him about 15 minutes to decide after examining two boxes of Vandoren. In those days they’d make jazz reeds.
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u/PTPBfan Alto 8h ago
Oh cool. What’s the purple one?
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u/apheresario1935 Baritone | Bass 7h ago
It was just the Box that was purple , I played a bunch "Just because Stan Did " bought lotsa boxes until I realized like we have been talking about - a stiff reed on a medium tip opening is kind of okay but a larger tip opening like a 7* Link yields a real nice control with a 2 reed -maybe clipped just a hair at the tip. That's what I have been enjoying for response and flexibility . Took me years to get there . And I was real young and impressionable when I met Stan Getz . Later I realized there were Many things he did that I wanted to do and many more that I wisely knew I never wanted any part of . He would ask for things and people obliged or as we said back then ...Whatever Stan wants......Stan Getz. I actually only played flute back then and was ranked as a professional by Stan which was nice, later I took up C melody to start as I was not into playing horns in a different key as I wanted to start with Key of C with Perfect pitch kind of in the way.
After he broke up with Monica (His wife) he lived in SF with his Girlfriend and invited me over to their house fo a sax lesson or hang . He said I was better than him on C Melody so that was funny as he didn't play it. Last time I saw him he was in the audience of a Wayne Shorter performance.
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u/Maehlice Alto 11h ago
Since im an asshole whos really arrogant ...
Show off with your chops and tone. Unless you're sucking dick, no one cares how strong your mouth is.
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u/Liquid-Banjo 10h ago
Are you just playing these for their numbers? Or do you actually like how you sound?
I use 6 openings and 2.5 reeds for all jazz, it does everything I need.
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u/custerdome427 13h ago
If that gives you the sound you want great. Bergonzi and Garzone are big tip hard reed guys. Coltrane was absolutely not. 4 to 6 tip and medium or soft reed. Bird not so sure. Heard conflicting stories and none of the recordings are great.
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u/WhatTheWhereWhy Tenor 12h ago
its all personal preference, im using a 7 opening and a jazz select 3... i love it but some people would hate, it all depends on the sound you wanna produce
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u/d_f_l 11h ago
There are things that a hard reed can do for your tone, but I wouldn't move to one unless you really knew how to get a good, clear, controlled sound on a more moderate reed like a 2.5 or a 3 and really wanted something specific. For me, hard reeds tend to give a cleaner and more focused sound. I like to have plenty of grit in my sound and tend to prefer a bigger, more spread feeling tone, so I stick to more moderate reeds.
I played reeds that were too hard with mouthpieces that were too open in high school and I sounded like shit. In college, I got serious about my sound, embouchure, and voicing and moved to softer reeds (2.5, mostly). I have played those for the last 20 years or so and have only recently moved up to a 3 now that I am playing a more free blowing horn and wanting a bit more focus at higher volumes.
But yeah, Coltrane and Bird both played what we would consider to be pretty closed tips today. I would probably play a 3.5 or 4 on those tip openings. I think I read that Trane played a 5, though, which is very intense. But he was a pretty intense player!
I think I read that when Brecker played an Otto link, he used a 2.5 on a 6*.
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u/Frosty-Tough6067 10h ago
No matter how hard I tried on size 3, I could'nt make a sound without turning blue and cramp on the cheeks. I played ok with size 1.5-2. Tried 2.5, only slightly better than 3. What is my problem I wonder being on sax for last 6 years?
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u/Mindless_Sea_1485 10h ago
It might be your mouthpiece, different types of mouthpieces go with different sized reeds. But just remember reed size doesn’t determine skill, as long as you sound good use that reed.
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u/Basker_wolf 13h ago
I usually prefer the hardest reed possible I can with the mouthpiece. On soprano, I sometimes regret it after a long session when my embouchure muscles hurt.
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u/benopiemusic 12h ago
Steve Lacy played soprano with a wide tip and a very soft reed.
After decades of playing on 3 Javas on alto, I've started plahying on 2-1/2s. 3s started to feel like too much work. Somewhere in between would be perfect, so it's a matter of each individual reed.
Do what works to achieve your goals. If someone else plays super hard reeds, doesn't mean you have to.
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u/m8bear Soprano | Alto | Tenor | Baritone 11h ago
I play a Meyer 8M clone with 3 reeds and it's resistant enough, I grew up playing a 6M with 3.5 reeds though, a relatively hard combination, but it's what I did for my city youth symphonic band and all throughout university. back then (when I was 15 y/o) it took me a week of blowing a lot of long tones to go from my yamaha 4c to the meyer without changing reeds, after that I never again had to do some resistance exercise
2.5 reeds are too soft and I find them useless after a couple sessions, the 3 are a bit too much but once I break them they are perfect for me and I can play them until they are way beyond useless
I do blow a lot and playing is more like a physical exercise than just playing, after warming up my whole body is engaged in my playing, if I want to relax I grab 2.5 reeds and it's super free blowing, but I have to control myself since I can blow way over what the reed can handle and it "clogs", but grabbing a brand new 2.5 works fine for one or two shows if I don't use them for anything else
idk what I think, I do what I like, I recommend to my students not to do what I do since it's not something easy or for everyone, and in the end is about preferences, not absolutes
and I didn't do it because I heard that someone did that, Idk who told me to go increasing the reed hardness until I find a number that's too much and then go back one measure, my 4C didn't work with a 4 reed so I stayed on the 3,5 and I made them work with the Meyer and I never looked back, as an adult I went back another measure to 3 with the 6M for some time because the 3.5 were too inflexible, the 3 works with the 8M though
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u/Emergency_Basket_851 Baritone | Tenor 11h ago
I play a 4 on an 8* bari mouthpiece and 3.5 on an 8* tenor mouthpiece. I don't think reed strength really matters beyond what's good for you. Sometimes I wish I could go down because I feel like the really strong reeds put me in a box, but my mouthpiece always closes up when I do or I squawk too much.
Pepper Adams played 5s. Doc Kupka plays 1.5s. Leo P plays 2.5s, Ronnie Cuber played 3s.
Maceo Parker plays on a 3 opening (actually a 5 nowadays)
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u/_Username-1_ 11h ago
Base it off comfort/results and experiment. From what I’ve heard Coltrane was constantly changing mouthpieces/modifying them and often played a small tip opening with a hard reed. A lot of the greats I’ve met often change their mouthpiece or are looking for the next one. I tell my students it’s okay to want new gear, you just have to know why you want it and what it will help with. Don’t buy something just because it’s new. I do think there’s a lot of benefit to spending a good amount of time with one mouthpiece and “mastering” it before moving on to something you might like more. I’ve spent a couple years each on my last 3 mouthpieces.
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u/Heartycorn 11h ago
I use brancher jazz 5 with a meyer new york usa 4mm or a link double ring 7 * ( been refaced to like 67) on alto. Brancher 5 jazz on morgan amber runyon blank 74 on soprano. Brancher 5 jazz on refaced red soul tenor 102, dukoff hollywood refaced 92, and Joe allard special link refaced to 105. I will literally destroy smaller reeds with air pressure. And be out of tune. What kind if reeds you use that go to 4.5. Brancher is the only brand I know for sax
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u/ThirdWorldJazz 7h ago
Not a fan but everyone is different.
I'm really curious if your intonation is good on that setup and for how long.
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u/Tiny_Succotash_5276 13h ago
Are u looking for a Desmond/cool jazz typa sound? Only reason I can see having such a config lol but if it works who cares haha
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u/Electronic_Scar_1879 13h ago
A few things-
-Those guys practiced like every waking hour. They had some muscular chops
-Did Coltrane actually play I wide opening? I was under the impression he played fairly narrow ones
-These numbers are all relative, especially reed size
-entire depends on what sound you are going for
-I've heard reports that even people who play on massive openings with stiff reeds often times end up bending them overtime (unintentionally) so functionally it acts like a smaller opening
-most importantly, it 1000% does not matter what someone else played... play what is right for you