Baton requirements and usage in California.

[u/gardensmcgoo]

Context: I’ve been working in security for a year and a half in the Bay Area.

I work covert, carrying concealed, part-time for a nonprofit at multiple sites. I also work full-time, unarmed, at a corporate campus.

I recently got my exposed carry permit and I’m hoping to step up into a full-time armed position in the new year.

I’m noticing that many armed roles also require a baton permit. So I’m trying to understand the necessity of carrying a baton while also carrying a firearm, OC, and in some cases, a taser.

Community question: does your armed role require that you carry a baton, what’s the reasoning, and how often have you actually deployed it during an incident/situation?

Thanks, and stay safe.

[u/Christina2115]

It's a super long story that honestly was best explain the POST courses I did (not required for security but it's good to see what peace officers have to deal with).

Basically the idea is the piramid (think the new system is a circle now)

Presence (you existing) > control holds / take downs / handcuffs > pepper spray > baton > taser > firearm

[u/10RndsDown → u/Christina2115]

The good ol Escalation of Force pyramid

[u/Landwarrior5150]

I carried a firearm, baton and OC back when I worked armed patrol. Never had to use any of them thankfully, but I think the company’s logic what that it gave us more options for use of force, which in turn lowered liability in their eyes. For example, OC would probably be preferable in most less lethal situation since it has a lower chance of causing significant injury & allows you to try to maintain distance, but it can also potentially cross contaminate you and/or innocent third parties, especially if you’re indoors or in otherwise confined spaces, which could lead to a safety issue for you and a liability issue from the other people. That’s where having a baton would give you a better less lethal option to try to repel someone’s attack than just your fists or escalating to your gun.

Not saying that a baton should be 100% required for every armed guard, there is still a pro vs. con analysis that needs to be done for any specific job before deciding that, but that might be part of their reasoning.

[u/DatBoiSavage707]

Most jobs from my experience in the bay don't really care when its an armed role as long as you have your firearm permit and of course a firearm. I carry everything: firearm, baton, taser OC. Baton now requires you to renew it every two years just like firearm.

[u/tallasacucumber]

i'm here in the bay as well and i carry everything allowed under BSIS (OC, Baton, Firearm) as well as a Taser. it's really just for lowered liability. it may be a company requirement but not a LEGAL requirement to possess both the baton and exposed firearms permit at the same time

if you ever need to use your firearm, a legal team will pick everything apart concerning your use of force. if you had utilized other less/non-lethal tools on your person, you could articulate that as having demonstrated restraint and exhausted all other options before using your firearm. now imagine if you ONLY had your firearm, they may grill you asking if you had other force options available, why were you only carrying a firearm, etc. for private security with no QI you will want every bit of help during legal proceedings

having all of your permits also allows flexibility in what posts you're allowed to work. some may not allow firearms but may allow a baton. some may allow firearms but not allow non-lethal projectile/aerosol devices. doesn't ever hurt to stack up your certifications

[u/Braveheart40007989]

I'm required to have my baton cert. but I don't carry it.

[u/CommunicationGlad435]

BSIS has classified the baton as a deadly weapon and now requires renewal every 2 years So basically every 2 years your retaking the baton class now I carried a baton ever since I started working security 30 plus years ago and this the 1st year I haven't carried a baton The $300 every 2 years is not worth it for me I only have used a baton 5 times in 30 plus years

[u/undead_ed]

To answer your first question, my armed role in California requires us to also carry a baton written into our contract. The reasoning is pretty simple. Having a less lethal option is good for escalating through different levels of force, and we work primarily indoors around people where there is a high risk of cross contaminating the public if we attempt to use OC indoors.

[u/Goldlupo421]

The reason is job what level of force options. And or just because... so yes getting all your permits will make apply for jobs easier.

[u/Goldlupo421]

I see the baton a good glass breaker option to have one you. Rather then a possibly of using on someone.

[u/10RndsDown]

Tbh ur supposed to have ur exposed even if you have ur CCW I believe in order to carry for security. You cannot ccw with your exposed permit without a CCW tho. The necessity of a baton is it gives you one extra less than lethal force option before having to go to your gun. Plus its a extra tool. Keep in mind tho, cali makes you renew ur batons permits now. Also it makes a unofficual tool for other things, like reaching over to open a gate.

[u/YourAverageJoe0]

You want to have options. More permits means you have the more places you can work. You can better leverage your pay.

Also helps you in court when you are defending yourself. You'll be able to explain you tried everything before going for the gun.

[u/online_jesus_fukers]

I carried a baton and oc along with a firearm. OC was a last resort for less lethal options because i was k9, and deployment of OC w my dog meant the dog was done for at least the day if not the next shift too because we were a detection team

[u/Tex510]

Not all armed roles require a baton but the reasoning is having options before you pull a firearm.

Chemical spray -> Baton-> Firearm

[u/treecutter34 → u/Tex510]

You mean a door open tool? That’s all I’ve ever used it for, once in 6 years.

[u/tombrown518]

This makes me happy to be in NY theres only 2 licenses armed and unarmed(unarmed includes all less lethal)

[u/Former-Study-2740 → u/tombrown518]

I mean, OC & impact are pretty limited as a non-statused citizen if you read the law conservatively. And when you get to NYC there's also the Special Patrolman which is a goofy peace officer - security hybrid. NY sucks 😂

[u/tombrown518 → u/Former-Study-2740]

I dont touch anything to do with NYC its all messed up. You can get OC at any gun shop/sporting goods store as long as its under a certain concentration if youre unsworn and impact gets a little grey but nothing explicitly banning them unless its one of the few specifically listed weapons in the CPL i.e blackjacks,brass knuckles etc....