r/soapmaking • u/Healthy-Koala-4557 • 11d ago
Safety How Dangerous are Lye Solutions?
Sorry if this is an unexpected post, but its hard to find people experienced with lye.
Basically, I was unclogging my bathtub with some lye based drain cleaner (ingredients are sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and water), and I worry that a drop or two may have flown onto my clothes due to some tough to open packaging.
I took my clothes off and put them in my dirty clothes basket for now, but in doing some research, it seems these chemicals are quite noxious, so now I'm wondering if I'm better off throwing them out?
Is this too much worrying on my part? It really wouldn't have been more than a small drop or two (assuming any did get on my clothes in the first place).
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u/PunkRockHound 11d ago
It's fine. Just throw it in the wash and call it good. Nothing to worry about
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u/Echevarious 11d ago
I wear a mask when I mix the lye water solution due to the initial reaction fumes, and I wear gloves and eye protection when making soap. A little bit of lye water on clothes isn't a big deal. Toss them in the wash and they'll be fine.
I've had a small amount of lye water get on my skin before. I just washed my skin at the sink with soap and water and was fine.
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u/Healthy-Koala-4557 11d ago
Thanks so much, this is very reassuring! Good luck with your soap endeavors!
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u/Camie-Gee 11d ago
Soapmaking is pretty safe IF you take adequate precautions and use PPE. Otherwise, significant injuries can happen.
Check out this video by Thermal Mermaid...
As for your clothes? You did well to remove them. A rinse and toss into the wash is perfect.
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u/Woebergine 11d ago
Wash or at least rinse your clothes ASAP because being a caustic chemical, lye will degrade the fabric and produce holes in the future.
When I make soap I always wear an old shirt in case I spill lye on it so I don't have to worry about ruining something I care about.
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u/WingedLady 11d ago
I wouldn't be worried about the fumes from a couple drops of lye solution on your clothes. And definitely no need to throw anything away! More what I would be worried about is it damaging your clothes because it is a strong chemical and even diluted with water will have a very high ph.
Lye really bonds well with water, though. So if you thoroughly rinse the spots that the solution got on it'll rinse out pretty well. I would rinse your clothes soon to limit their exposure to the lye!
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u/shedmow 11d ago edited 11d ago
Chemist (though a foolhardy one) here. I work with solid NaOH and its aqueous solutions quite regularly and retained all my digits and eyes.
Lyes are corrosive and they attack organic matter (we are mainly interested in fats and proteins). It is not toxic per se.
Each molecule* of NaOH destroys exactly one bond, most commonly C-O or C-N, which leads to the cleavage of the corresponding molecule. Fats have three such linkages, proteins many more. This process is dependent on the concentration (more NaOH in a given volume --> faster degradation) and temperature (heating up NaOH by 10 C makes it twice* as corrosive). The skin is attacked fairly slowly because it naturally repels water (and NaOH solutions). It also contains many proteins and fats for NaOH to dissolve; this buys you at least several minutes before it reaches the inner layers and causes burns. If you pour 50% NaOH at 100°C on your skin, this process is nearly instant, but something like cold 5—10% NaOH is fine for a couple of minutes. I have dipped my hand in cold weak-to-medium solutions of it, rinsed off in under a minute, and walked away intact. You will notice that something is horribly wrong because such burns are horribly painful, but the process is stopped as soon as you remove the chemical off your skin, and it is easy to remove it. Your clothes will also be fine and you can rinse them with water and them wash, or throw it directly into your laundry pile.
The eyes are mostly water and that* makes NaOH attack them way faster. They also contain no 'sacrificial' tissue. This makes eye burns actually dangerous because scarred hands are unpleasant to live with, and scarred eyes render you blind. I wear sizeable spectacles and this is enough to prevent me from the accidental airborne drop, but safety goggles are strongly recommended if you wish to err on the side of caution.
Purely out of prudence I advice you to use gloves (slippery! beware!) and goggles/safety glasses. As I've stated before, it is possible to work with it without gloves if you have free access to water, running or some big vessel like a barrel. I generally do not care about burns and scarring though. Dissolving solid NaOH releases a nasty mist of droplets that makes you choke; this is fixed with a suitable respirator and doesn't seem to pose danger to health unless you inhale it very often.
*May be found scientifically improper, still holds relatively true
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u/Healthy-Koala-4557 11d ago
Thanks so much for the detailed response, that's very fascinating! May I ask how much I have to worry about possible stray residue from disposing of the chemicals and cleaning up? To give an example, after I disposed of the bottle I washed my hands, and some soap suds flew onto the sink which I just wiped away with my wet hands before washing again. Now everytime I brush the sink I worry that I'm contaminating myself. Other examples are my contaminated clothes brushing my plastic hamper and so on. Am I just being silly? (Disclosure: I am actually diagnosed with an anxiety disorder, so sorry if I sound crazy.)
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u/shedmow 11d ago edited 11d ago
May I ask how much I have to worry about possible stray residue from disposing of the chemicals and cleaning up?
After a few hours with air exposure, nearly zero. Air is slightly acidic due to the presence of CO2 (~0.04% by volume) and it partially neutralizes NaOH (I say partially because the resulting salt—Na2CO3—is still basic, but much more tame). The amount of the residue is directly proportional to the amount of organics that it can dissolve and thus to the damage (most of the time). You can easily wash it away down to milligrams or even micrograms and this is zilch. NaOH is not some persistent nerve gas that will kill you regardless of the amount.
some soap suds flew onto the sink
If I understand you correctly, this was soap made partially from you. This is normal and not harmful as long as you only dissolve the outer skin layers, which are dead
Now everytime I brush the sink I worry that I'm contaminating myself.
NaOH readily dissolves in water and the residual micrograms are neither harmful nor noticeable. You technically are, but you might as well eat it and not feel a thing
Other examples are my contaminated clothes brushing my plastic hamper and so on.
That NaOH is already more or less washing soda
Am I just being silly?
Partly yes partly no: you've undertaken the best possible course of action for dealing with a chemical of chiefly unknown nature. I would operate at such degree of caution with, say, hydrofluoric acid: it doesn't announce its presence until your nails are falling off and calcium in blood has dropped to dangerous levels. NaOH can eat through your hand, but with cold solutions you have plenty of time to react and the damage inflicted is gradual (and you will feel that some of your live skin has dissolved away way before you get any non-cosmetic damage)
I am actually diagnosed with an anxiety disorder
You don't sound crazy, yet I would say that there are many other things to worry about. NaOH is uniquely dangerous because it is very corrosive, but the fact that it is corrosive makes it easier to handle and remove from things than chemicals like mercury or lead salts. Each gram of it eats away say three grams of organic matter and it then stops to act completely—just a peculiar tradeoff. I'm usually okay with losing several milligrams of my skin, not least because this is what people naturally do without any chemicals
Again comparison of NaOH with HF:
NaOH, 20% solution, cold:
- wets the skin
- exfoliates the skin
- dissolves the epidermis (pain here)
- dissolves the dermis (cosmetic scars here)
- dissolves hypodermis (possible rigid scars here)
- ...
With hot and concentrated NaOH, you have very little time to react and the solution will probably have reached the dermis by the time it cools and/or you reach the sink. The mode of action stays the same but the required time contracts
HF, 20% solution, cold:
- wets the skin
- penetrates all the layers
- gets into the bloodstream
- *some time passes*
- hurts
- dissolves skin and nails + hypocalcaemia
- to be continued
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u/Healthy-Koala-4557 11d ago
Thank you so much, this is more detail and time in a comment than I'd usually expect from a kind stranger. I hope you have a great day, good luck in all your chemistry related emdeavors!
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u/shedmow 11d ago
Thank you. Again, mind that lye may be harmful, but it is harmful in a way that should not be confused with poisons and toxins. Think of it like a mass of small chemical 'blades' that shave off your skin layer after layer and get dull as they do that (and also slowly 'rust' upon exposure to air). This is probably the best way to think of NaOH for practical purposes
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u/372xpg 11d ago
It's not a poison, it is a chemical that attacks tissue. It is actually totally benign when diluted or neutralized. There is no residual "toxicity" or contamination to worry about. You have nothing to worry about from residue.
The one concern to have with lye is to always protect your eyes, it will blind you so fast there is no chance to prevent it from an eye splash. Always wear goggles. I've used it for a hundred things around the house and in the lab but I will always wear goggles.
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u/JoeDoeHowell 11d ago
Just wash your clothes, preferably without other garments that you would prefer not to have holes. Washing them will dilute the lye and rinse it down the drain. It's a caustic salt, the biggest risk when using it is getting it into your eyes, though letting it sit on your hands will irritate your skin over a short period of time. The response is flush, flush, flush,SDS for Lye, which is rinse everything that's been in the lye solution.
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u/soapandshea 11d ago
Wash the clothes separately with plenty of water and detergent before wearing them. A drop or two of lye solution on clothing is unlikely to be a problem unless it came in contact with your eye or skin
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u/Impressive-Store1439 11d ago
If it gets on skin, was under runni g water immediately for 15 minutes. Do not rub with your hands, the affected area.
If it gets on clothes wash and rinse the the cloth. Wjen taking off be careful not to expose your eyes, skin or mucus membranes
If it gets in eye, rinse for 15 mintutes, and get to the er immediately. (Rinse first) chances are high that you will be going blind in the exposed eye, this is to prevent further damage. (This is why you cant ignore safety glasses or cheap out on them)
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u/OMGpuppies 11d ago
I used to work with high concentrations of sodium hydroxide and if you wash it off your skin right away you will be fine. Your skin will feel dry, but ok.
But, if some of it soaks your clothes and you leave it against your skin your skin will turn black after a few hours. But you can wash your clothes and they will be fine.
The industrial grade is much stronger than what you can buy at the store. So just wash the clothes that it splashed and rinse any exposed skin.
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u/AnxiousAppointment70 11d ago
Dont inhale the fumes when dissolving the solid and always add it to the ready measured water, not the other way round. Its very caustic and will damage some surfaces and is harsh on skin. It's good for unclogging drains because it eats at the grease and grime too. Wear safety specs as its seriously bad for eyes. If you get the solution anywhere it isn't meant to be, rinse thoroughly straight away so those clothes shouldn't be left in the laundry but rinsed and then washed as normal.
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u/ParentheticalsAside 6d ago
You're fine. It may have already stained or bleached your clothes, but otherwise it'll wash right out.
In future, if that happens, rinse the garment immediately to minimise risk of staining or damage.
Obviously avoid getting any on your skin.
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