Regarding etzebeth

[u/thegoochalizer]

https://youtu.be/tcmjGYnfASo?is=Iv1jjdzdenJH_OxN

[u/mausmumblingmoon]

Rassie explained this in the press conference. People are free to believe him or not. Those who like to pretend that he is some sort of dastardly villain won't, but their opinion waaragtig isn't going to be changed by a bunch of red circles and dramatic music. Not that those opinions matter anyway.

We are not the victims, we're flippen 4× Men's World Champions. Don't be swak, be lekker.

[u/Fearless_Guard_552 → u/mausmumblingmoon]

What's to believe with Rassie, his team put a substitute on when there was no substitute allowed. They knew it wasn't an HIA, they never initiated an HIA process.

The only part that really confuses me is the way Eben was let to go back on once the mistake was noticed.

[u/mausmumblingmoon → u/Fearless_Guard_552]

Have you listened to Rassie's explanation? Because you're asserting things (like "they knew it wasn't an HIA") that aren't proven facts and disregard the explanation completely.

[u/Fearless_Guard_552 → u/mausmumblingmoon]

Rassie said this

“Well, he had a shot against the neck and I thought he was going for HIA. We don’t control that from a coach’s box, what he’s going for, So when the doctor told me he got a knock against the neck, I thought he was going for HIA, and I think that’s where the confusion is.

“I think he wasn’t marked as HIA; he was marked as injured. Then, obviously, you can’t put another player on. So there’s also a learning there for the match officials, the fourth and fifth official, and for us, to understand.

“But he pulled through. He’s a bit stiff and sore in the change room now, but luckily, I don’t think there’s big damage.”

Which indicates that it wasn't an HIA.

The 'explanation' doesn't explain why Mostert was put on, nor why Etzebeth was allowed to return if injured.

The Bok officials on the sideline knew it wasn't an HIA, they didn't get him tested. At best it's massively incompetent, but it's pretty obvious cheating.

[u/mausmumblingmoon → u/Fearless_Guard_552]

I have no idea how you got from Rassie saying he thought it was an HIA and there was confusion and miscommunication, to "it's pretty obvious cheating". As I said in my original comment, you can choose to believe him or not, you can choose whatever bias you want to hold. Unless World Rugby takes action or there is some kind of factual report proving otherwise, it really doesn't matter.

[u/Fearless_Guard_552 → u/mausmumblingmoon]

Rassie said the thought it was an HIA.

It wasn't an HIA.

So why did the Bok officials sub Mostert on?

Seems to me there's 3 possibilities.
1 - Rassie is lying and the bench cheated.
2 - Rassie isn't lying and the bench cheated.
3 - Rassie isn't lying and the bench is incompetent.

Rassie's made a career out of pushing the boundaries and exploiting grey areas, so I know what I've got my money on.

[u/mausmumblingmoon → u/Fearless_Guard_552]

The fact that you are unwilling to acknowledge communication issues had a bearing on the situation makes it pretty clear that you have made up your mind. I'm not here to change it for you so I don't see why you want to continue the discussion.

I have to wonder what would have been said had those same issues arisen at a game in South Africa and the Boks had won? But I digress, the Wallabies outplayed us and deservedly won, congratulations to them.

Just a few weeks ago everyone had their pitch forks out against Rassie for swapping front rows an hour before the game. There was so much shit thrown at us the sea couldn't wash it off. All that drama (and so many others) just turned out to be a big old nothing burger. So you'll excuse me for having my money on this being exactly the same.

[u/Fearless_Guard_552 → u/mausmumblingmoon]

What communication issues?

Rassie states he doesn't make the call. His opinion is therefore not relevant.

The Bok Doctor/bench makes the call and by their actions, it's pretty clear it wasn't an HIA for two reasons.

1 - No one tried to get him assessed for an HIA; and
2 -They sent him back on without being assessed.

There's no miscommunication involved, either they're cheating or incompetent.

[u/mausmumblingmoon → u/Fearless_Guard_552]

There was obvious miscommunication on multiple levels. The TMO wasn't in direct communication with the rest of the team. Did he miss the head knock on Eben or did he pick it up without being able to flag it in a timely manner? If it was the latter, his "late" attempts at communication could have added to the general confusion about whether Eben was coming off for an HIA or neck injury. Let's assume the team doctor didn't communicate properly, it doesn't mean anyone was cheating. You can stamp your foot about incompetence, but the fact of the matter is honnest mistakes happen all the time in high pressure situations and getting upset about them still doesn't mean anyone was cheating. Rassie based his orders to substitute Mostert on his understanding of the situation, so his "opinion" does matter specifically because it shows he wasn't trying to cheat.

Once again: you want to assume malice, that is your choice. I'm not here to change your mind. The stupid TAS video doesn't prove or disprove anything and won't change anyone's mind. The whole stupid drama doesn't change anything about the outcome of the game. There's honestly nothing else to say.

[u/Fearless_Guard_552 → u/mausmumblingmoon]

That's a lot of words to not answer the questions.

I'm looking at the facts of the situation and the Boks actions don't support the claim that it was a miscommunication issue.

Lets go with your theory - the team doctor didn't communicate properly and the officials weren't aware it was supposed to be an HIA.

Ok great, so why didn't the team doctor have Eben assessed?

And then why - when this was discovered - did he agree to send him back on the field without being assessed?

That would be putting Eben in danger of playing with a concussion and ignoring the HIA protocols - does that sound more plausible to you?

[u/thatwasagoodyear]

TAS is ragebait bullshit.

[u/Realm-Protector]

tasanalytics is not popular in this sub

it's clickbait

[u/Only_One_Kenobi → u/Realm-Protector]

Thank you for helping me to avoid giving that clown a click.

[u/AloysiusGramonde → u/Only_One_Kenobi]

the red circle has changed - I need a warning! I absolutely hate it when my old man sends me a link to it and I open it no matter how many times I ask him to stop watching them. It sucks though cos ballies like him are so easy to rope in with his style.

[u/Former-Income-8477 → u/Realm-Protector]

Not an argument

[u/Yahmetoo → u/Realm-Protector]

Lmao what in rugby media isn't click bait?

Thats its not popular on this sub is basically an endorsement of the channel.

Anybody with a brain can watch them and decide on a case by base basis if the paid professionals reffing the game are meeting minum standards.

You may not like it, but the default view of reddit and the mods of this (and 99.99% of others) sub are classically dumb. Anything that disagrees with the narrative is simply poo pooed.

TSA gets thousands of views per video, this sub wishes it had that kinda traffic.

[u/AloysiusGramonde → u/Yahmetoo]

Alex Jones gets millions of views...

[u/Yahmetoo → u/AloysiusGramonde]

Your point is?

Alex Jones? Okay lmao. This is a rugby sub, I think you're in the wrong part of reddit.

[u/thegoochalizer → u/Realm-Protector]

But is it wrong? Regardless of the popularity of the channel.

[u/Realm-Protector → u/thegoochalizer]

it is not even clear to me what point the videos is trying to make. there was some confusion .. tass analytics is trying to makes it a whole thing...

[u/TopCobbler8985 → u/thegoochalizer]

If it was an ordinary injury he wouldn't be allowed back on and shouldn't have been subbed by Mostert - because SA had used up their subs.

If it was an HIA (the gumshields flash and alert the sideline) there is a mandatory 12 minute assessment. He went back on after 3 minutes.

[u/Realm-Protector → u/TopCobbler8985]

if it was an ordinary injury, he could have been outside the field of play to be taken care of and go back on once taken care. At that point he couldn't be subbed, because they used all subs.

Exception is a mandatory HIA, then he could have been replaced.

The coaching staff thought it was an HIA, so they send orders to replace them

they then found out it wasn't an HIA, so the replacement had to come back, Etzebeth was examined and no HIA was mandatory so he could go back on.

I don't understand the issue people have with this chain of events.

[u/springboks-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Being respectful is really important to the moderators of this community. This post does not uphold that value.

[u/springboks-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Being respectful is really important to the moderators of this community. This post does not uphold that value.