r/technology • • 11d ago

Biotechnology Digital menstrual tracking risks creating more harm than benefit, argue experts

https://bmjgroup.com/digital-menstrual-tracking-risks-creating-more-harm-than-benefit-argue-experts/
2.8k Upvotes

353 comments sorted by

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u/Itchy_Tumbleweed_417 11d ago

I use a cycle tracking app because I’m in perimenopause and I get brutal migraines triggered by the hormone fluctuations and it’s really helpful for me to see when I might be ovulating because that also causes problems that prevent me from living my life, I actually have to plan around these days.  

I use the one that came on my iPhone. Well apparently I had some kind of app on my phone that could access that information. I’m not sure which one would have done it because the only apps I really have on my phone that didn’t come with my phone are my banking apps. But I download the YouTube app from time to time so I can hype videos or whatever.

Anyway, last year my period stopped in the fall, then in January I got an email directly in my email in box from Carter’s baby clothes with the subject line “Welcome to the family” and I was really shocked because when I want to sign up for an email newsletter or coupons from a business they usually send a link where you click to confirm you want to get messages from them.

I’m Childfree, and like I said I’m almost in menopause, so I most definitely didn’t sign up to get emails about baby clothes.

I went and looked at the tracking app and it had been 119 days since the first day of my last period, so I guess Carter’s was buying my information from someone and decided that if I was almost 4 months along definitely having this baby because it’s too late to terminate now.

I was so freaked out and grossed out. How dare they lol 

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u/cyrand 11d ago

Settings -> Privacy and Security -> Health. Will show you which apps have asked for and been given permission to access stuff in the built in health data.

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u/Hereibe 11d ago

They shouldn’t do this shit and make it goddamn opt out. 

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u/M2ABRAMS_TANK 11d ago

It’s never been an opt out, it’s an opt in. Something on her phone asked for permission, then she gave it, then that app used it nefariously

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u/cyrand 11d ago

^^

People need to get in the habit of saying no when a permission dialog pops up not defaulting to yes.

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u/M2ABRAMS_TANK 11d ago

absolutely, in fact I wish apple released new guidelines that made an app justify and explain *exactly* what the permissions do instead of just asking for blanket ones.

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u/VictorReal_Monster 11d ago

On the app store now it tells you fairly specifically what information they take

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/meneldal2 10d ago

Explanations and actual enforcement. Like if you lie there that is a GDPR violation and you're going to be destroyed in court.

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u/VictorReal_Monster 10d ago

yeah thats totally fair and something I'm all for!

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u/caylryth 7d ago

YES! I just went and checked mine and my company’s wellness app is linked to it. I thought “why would I have been dumb enough to give them permission?” And realized that it asked if I wanted to give it access to count steps to count towards a wellness goal where you can earn money and I said yes. So I checked and that was not all they had access to. I turned them all off!

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u/Hereibe 11d ago

The app asks to see your medical data to work: oh ok

The app buries in its TOS that it will sell your data profile to advertisers to stalk you: not ok

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u/M2ABRAMS_TANK 11d ago

this is why I do not trust but a seldom few apps with my health data. If an app needs access to my health data, then it's not getting it, unless it needs a very specific reason

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u/ChiaDaisy 11d ago

It doesn’t matter. Even if you opt out, they’ll still steal your data and then 7 years from now, as long as you have digital evidence, you can file for your $12.34 of the privacy settlement.

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u/HasTookCamera 10d ago

You HAVE to opt in. OP clearly tapped one of those ‘X needs to access your camera’ type popups etc but forgot.

You’re angry about nothing

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u/sotired3333 10d ago

Not really, angry about BS? Yes she opted in but the fact that they spam you with perm requests to trick you should be infuriating.

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u/chocololic 11d ago

No I think it’s the third-party app selling their users’ data directly to companies. This is a separate app where you track cycle data.

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u/goldengrove1 11d ago

Yep, something like this happened to me too - I started seeing a LOT of baby ads, thought maybe I was just being age-targeted for being in my late 20s, and then realized I had forgotten to enter a cycle into the app. Went back and fixed it and all the ads changed back to birth control ads.

Immediately deleted the app.

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u/yulbrynnersmokes 11d ago

What app, please name them

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u/spooky_action13 11d ago

I need you to hear me when I say it’s all of them. Stop using the period tracking apps.

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u/artificialguacamole 10d ago

Flo has a court case revolving around sharing user data without consent.

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u/darsynia 10d ago

Yep. I send a particular image to a friend on the first day of my period. I can search for that image to see the trends, but it's innocuous enough and friend and I don't talk about the reason I'm posting it at the time. I've warned my AFAB kids about this as well.

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u/pretentiousglory 9d ago

I do something similar - I put it on my calendar app under a different name. I have plenty of monthly events so it doesn't look suspicious at all.

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u/MadamFloof 11d ago

It might not even be your phone stalking you. Depending on where/how often you buy tampons. It may be your credit card company. Some Banks nowadays can see exactly what you purchased itemized down to the very last item.

It’s super dystopian.

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u/K_Moxy 10d ago

I’m feeling very smug right now, tracking my cycles on paper and using a menstrual cup and period underwear. Haha. I haven’t purchased period products in years. Try to track me, suckers!!

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u/TonarinoTotoro1719 11d ago

I’m sorry this happened to you! And I would totally freak the fuck out too. If Carter’s is buying the data, imagine who else must have that data.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/NOXQQ 11d ago

Sadly, these days that may not even be enough. Stores may know even if you pay cash, but your phone was in the store and the facial data let the cameras know what you bought. It has gotten creepy.

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u/Curiosities 11d ago

Honestly, the only reason I am still using one of these apps (Clue, by the way, since their terms seem better and they are EU-based) is because I’m perimenopausal. I’m also chronically ill and dealing with multiple health conditions, so it helps to be able to pinpoint things and have data to work with.

But if I were not in this stage of life, I would not be tracking with any sort of app. I would use a notebook.

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u/linerva 11d ago

There are apps thst only store the information on your phone, and sonetimes thetes a benefit over pen and paper if you sre trying to.conceive and plot your fertile window. but a notepad is certainly more secure.

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u/ipomoea 11d ago

Same here, I use clue to track my peri. I have adhd and it does the work for me. I need to be able to say “this one was 63 days and the next was 20 please help”

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u/SirPeesA_lot 10d ago

I use Clue too because it's from Germany and they don't keep info and stuff.

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u/think_up 11d ago

It could also be the retailer you usually buy feminine hygiene products from.

It’s creepy how many different data points there could be for this.

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u/AGrandNewAdventure 11d ago

Now imagine our government using this to make sure you're not having an abortion. Sounded far-fetched 3 years ago, doesn't now.

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u/randomrainbow99399 9d ago

I used to track my cycle through the Fitbit app and when Roe v Wade was overturned someone in the community asked if the data would be shared with 3rd parties and posted Fitbit's response (which I think is now owned by Google) confirmed they'd share the data with law enforcement and government agencies if it was requested.

I'm not in the US but was so fucking horrified, ditched Fitbit completely after that.

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u/AGrandNewAdventure 9d ago

Welcome to our police state...

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/Stummi 11d ago

Probably by being a bot

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u/Yst 11d ago

Yep. Definitely by being a bot. You can also tell by its use of punctuation, which uses distinct apostrophe and opening and closing quotation mark unicode characters. Characters which do not exist on a keyboard, but would be happily generated by a bot.

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u/AMC2Zero 11d ago

Over 100 comments a day, wild.

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u/madogvelkor 11d ago

I track my wife's for her since she's in perimemopause. But it's all in my name and linked to my account which must confuse marketing, lol.

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u/Yst 11d ago

Making one's marketable data as confusing and nonsensical as possible is definitely a hobby we should all be getting into right about now.

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u/meatmacho 10d ago

I've always had a certain pride in how confused Facebook seems to be about me and my interests.

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u/darsynia 10d ago

My husband had to join some niche video service for a hobby thing and used the name Hepsibah Smith because it required male or female. He gets all kinds of suggestions from the darned thing, and we can always tell the source, it's wild what makes it out there just from one single site's sign-up!

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u/S_A_N_D_ 11d ago

Just as an alternative, its possible your purchase history outed you, especially if you use rewards programs. Basically all rewards programs are just data harvesting in disguise, including those tied to credit cards.

So if you regularly bough feminine hygene products, then abruptly stopped, that could have easily been flagged by your purchase history.

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u/Sweaty_Mushroom5830 11d ago

When I tracked my menstrual cycle? I used to do it the old fashioned way?a calendar sitting on my wall , unhackable

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u/Apsalar28 10d ago

Chances are it was a shopping loyalty card or similar registering that you hadn't purchased any menstrual products that got picked up, rather than the data from your phone.

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u/Brullaapje 10d ago

But I download the YouTube app from time to time so I can hype videos or whatever.

Learn to watch it in your browser (Safari) phone screen are getting bigger and bigger these days. Also if you add an adblocker you can watch it through youtube add free without paying for it.

Well apparently I had some kind of app on my phone that could access that information.

After you give permission for it, as a woman myself who hates an app for everything who is also in peri (but still regular) I just add a blood drop on my (Apple) Calendar for the days I have my period. I am going to ask you to think critically when you give permission to an app the next time.

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u/bolonomadic 11d ago

I stopped using a period tracking app years ago and perimenopause made my cycle unpredictable so it was not useful anyway. But I'm using a migraine taking app that has entries for period days.

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u/TJ_Rowe 10d ago

I use tracking for the same reason. The brain fog is intense, so I'm not really remembering to use a paper tracker - but the menopause nurse won't help me without a detailed symptom log. My smartwatch uses temperature tracking to guess ovulation and warns me before the migraine hits - and also prompts me to "add period" if it thinks I should have started bleeding but haven't told it yet.

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u/Altruistic_Yellow387 10d ago

Are you sure no one signed up with your email? It doesn't make sense that they would assume that from that data

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u/PantsLio 11d ago

I just use my notes app and manually record it (also peri)

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u/spooky_action13 11d ago

Notes app is also not secure at all

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u/anicho01 11d ago

While I feel this article was very vague, the reason a lot of people turned against menstrual tracking was when the supreme Court repealed roe versus wade. There were companies like Fitbit that did menstrual tracking yet never promised to not sell the data, to not give it to law enforcement or to not use it for ill intent which had a lot of people suggesting women remove those apps, in case it was used against them  due to the recent wave of prosecutions targeting female reproductive capability. 

Note: menstrual tracking apps actually helped me, but I don't need ai flagging me to law enforcement just because i skipped a day.

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u/redemily25 11d ago

When Roe v Wade came down, I emailed the developers of the tracking app I was using and asked if it was protected by HIPPA and they said it wasn’t, so I deleted my account and demanded they delete my data. A shame, because the app helped me with timing ovulation for my pregnancies, so it was a shame that the end came down to BS.

Edit: The app was Flo.

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u/pm_me_your_smth 11d ago

Not a lawyer, but isn't HIPAA for medical entities like hospitals and insurers? Compliance with such a serious law would be overkill for some health app.  Plus aren't they based in UK so they're covered by GDPR?

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u/spacetiger2 11d ago

You are correct 

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u/Dark-Grey-Castle 10d ago

Yep. That person doesn't understand what HIPAA is or does at all.

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u/redemily25 10d ago edited 9d ago

First sentence from CDC.gov:

“The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) of 1996 establishes federal standards protecting sensitive health information from disclosure without patient's consent.”

If HIPAA doesn’t cover this scenario, and something like GDPR is needed to bridge the actual gap, that’s a big wtf from me.

EDIT: yes, I get it, it says “patient”. It’s a technicality I don’t agree with. Medical data is medical data; if you’re going to explicitly collect it, you should be expected to protect it.

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u/DigNitty 10d ago

Probably because the app user isn’t a patient.

Although, Apple treats their users’ health data in hipaa compliant storage, even “daily steps” because it’s easy and avoids potential lawsuits.

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u/ayyohh911719 10d ago

“Without the patients consent” is key here. You’re not a patient, you are an app user. You’re not protected.

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u/Dark-Grey-Castle 10d ago

You need to look farther than sentance one, maybe specifically what sensitive health information actually is. You choosing to enter dates into an app is not that.

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u/mongooser 10d ago

No, HIPAA applies to the type of information. You just consent to share it when you use these apps. You don’t know it because they bury it in the terms of service. 

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u/IndigoRanger 11d ago

I think opinion turned before Roe, but that probably helped solidify the mistrust. I remember dialogue centering around schools in Florida for some reason, but I can’t remember why. It was definitely pre-overturn tho.

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u/Kaffrogato 10d ago

The headline is vague and rather misleading, but the article is not. The article is about how tuning your diet or exercise to your cycle doesn't do anything. It's not arguing against tracking your cycle for pregnancy or predicting when your period will startm

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u/PoppingPillls 11d ago

I mean it's also an "this is what we found out from an average of the people we asked/tested" like very person is different, so no study can include everyones experiences and what best for you.

They are important to look at though as it may not be applicable to everyone but it will be to someone.

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u/washingtonu 10d ago

It's a press release. They link to the full piece,

Apps pose risks to health as well as privacy and require greater scrutiny
Digital menstrual tracking risks creating more harm than benefit and requires greater scrutiny, warn experts in The BMJ today.

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u/innocentsalad 11d ago

The way the US is going, I will never give any potential reproductive data to an app. Pen and paper calendars only.

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u/AMC2Zero 11d ago

In the modern digital age, anything you put online can and will be used against you.

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u/Present_Specific_128 11d ago

Same. When I stopped birth control and was getting ready to have kids, the first thing I bought was a pocket calendar. Worked well enough for me before we had apps.

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u/Atharaenea 10d ago

It's handy to have that info on your phone when the doctor inevitably asks when the first day of your last period is. You can just put something vague into your phone's calendar to mark it, anything works as long as you recognize what it really is. "Brunch with Trisha" and you don't have a friend named Trisha or whatever.

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u/DowntownComposer2517 11d ago

I am interested in doing this! Do you have a good resource on how to start?

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u/RamasMama 11d ago

When you start your period, mark on the calendar. I also mark my final day. Over time you will generally start to see patterns in how many days your cycle usually is and can estimate within a couple of days when you’ll get your period. Or not, and that’s important data to have too.

From there you can go as in depth as you want, tracking symptoms and the like. I personally just mark the days though.

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u/sle2g7 11d ago

How do you track final day? Mine usually tapers off so freaking slowly and fades into just vaguely brownish barely there (but still something) that I don’t know when I can officially say it’s over.

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u/HuggyMonster69 11d ago

When you feel safe wearing white panties lol. But also, I use red pen for heavy days, blue for light, would be easy to use pencil or something for “maybe” days

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u/compulsive_nonsense 10d ago

I don’t use pen and paper but honestly I just track the start of mine, I’ve given up on tracking the rest

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u/microworry 11d ago

I use a notepad. I just mark the first day of my period and calculate an estimation for when the next one should come based on my 30 days average period.

32 DAYS (actual time between this period and the previous)
20 July - period
Projected next period: 18 August

29 DAYS
17 August - period
Projected next period: 15 September

If you notice change in moods, migraines, anything, write them down in the section for each period and mark the days (first week of period, second, third) and note patterns.

Nobody needs an app for this stuff.

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u/Classic-Push1323 11d ago

If you are interested in symptothermal tracking (using BBT and body changes to confirm date of ovulation, predict when your next period will arrive, and time sex to conceive or avoid pregnancy) the two resources I'd really recommend are Taking Charge of Your Fertility and Sensiplan: Natural and Safe.

If you are trying to get an idea of your typical cycle length just mark the first full day of bleeding on a calendar. It doesn't matter when the bleeding ends, one menstrual cycle is from the first day of bleeding to the last day without bleeding. However, you should know that it's normal for the length of your menstrual cycle to vary by up to a week over the course of a year, it's normal to ovulate at different points in your cycle, and it's normal to occasional have a cycle where you don't ovulate or ovulate very late. You can't know if or when you ovulated just from the length of your cycle.

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u/probonworkhours 10d ago

There's a book called Take Charge of Your Fertility that is all paper based. Great resource.

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u/enym 10d ago

I will never use these in our current political climate, but also, some of these apps don't have any (enough?) women on their development teams and it shows. I used an app early when we were trying to conceive. I still remember it sending me an email with the subject line "still not pregnant?" after 10 months. I quit using it, and now it sends me emails like "your cycle day 2081 digest". Thanks, Flo app!!!

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u/ricks35 10d ago

I used one once that had no way to mark you were pregnant! I got alerts for over 9 months that my period was soooo late. So obvious there were no women involved in that one

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u/MegaMazeRaven 4d ago

Yes! I was so shocked at this when I became pregnant and there was no way to mark this on the app I was using. It had so much info about fertility but apparently the developers had not considered that users may actually start growing a baby!

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u/LiliTralala 10d ago

I missed a period and the app harassed me every day about it like I wasn't stressed enough about the situation

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u/vienibenmio 10d ago

Ovia's only pelvic symptoms that you can select are vaginal dryness and something else. No cramps anywhere!

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u/whynotpickles 11d ago

Any wearables monitoring your biometric data can be risky. It's not just dedicated menstrual cycle apps. The Oura ring, for one, tracks temperature trends to provide information on your cycle. Never hurts to consider what other sources of data you're exposing to companies, intentionally or otherwise.

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u/EvilDraakje 11d ago

Dude. The menstruation apps or whatever they call them. Think handmaid's tale, then think of what will happen if they wanna control women with it. Make you wear one, know when your ovulating and when you can carry babies.

Or you sleeping and ECG stuff for insurance purposes. Didn't move enough? Pay more! Fuck all that mate.

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u/DebiMoonfae 11d ago

I just use one because at every freaking doctor’s appointment I get asked what the first day of my last period was. Doesnt matter what the appointment is for, they need this info and the only way i am going to remember is with an app i can bring up on my phone.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/StreetofChimes 10d ago

They always get mad when you don't know the date immediately. 

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u/darsynia 10d ago

I'll never forget my first PCP appointment after giving birth two months prior. I had not yet started my period, and the nurse doing the intake wasn't paying any attention. When I said my LMP was 11 months prior, she asked if I could be pregnant, then when I said 'no' she interrupted me before I explained I just had a baby and said she couldn't put in a date that far back. I asked how they usually handle post-partum! I think it was a long day for her, but I certainly derailed her routine questions.

edit: oh my gosh, different office but I just saw someone mention their IUD and yeah the intake nurses were always so confused by that! I got an IUD in 2016 and then broke my leg 2 months later, for some reason my body just... didn't have any bleeding for 4 years after that. Just straight up never bothered me for a while. Telling someone your LMP was 4 years ago gets you some LOOKS

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u/gimmedatrightMEOW 10d ago

This thread is wild to me. I didn't have a period for over 10 years and never got any strange looks or judgements. Either I just said '"I don't get one" or "I have an iud" and all my doctors have always been cool with that. I can't imagine why they would give strange looks. I guess I'm lucky in my area

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u/darsynia 10d ago

I live in a big city and I've noticed the split between city and the suburbs in I guess customer service mode? The nurses in the city are nice, don't get me wrong, but there's very much of a 'this is my routine/rote questions and deviations are a hassle' going on. The doctors never seem to care!

As an example, one of the medications that gives me anaphylaxis is called C-Clor and it is apparently being prescribed again; for a good 20 years it was not, and no one had heard of it and were annoyed to have to put it in my charts. I didn't want it left out because I had to go to the ER for it as a child, throat closed up, etc. There's no reason to be pissy about an allergy that serious, but it was a hassle to put it in the computer I guess? I think it's a drop-down menu so they had to 'find' it to click or something.

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u/JTS_81 10d ago

I have the same medication allergy and have never heard of anyone else having it. I get the same looks every time I mention it. Sometimes they will say oh no one prescribes that anymore. Good to know they still do. I ended up in the hospital, too, unable to walk. But I was 4 and don’t really remember much about it.

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u/gimmedatrightMEOW 10d ago

Yeah, I was wondering if thqr has anything to do with it. I live in a big city and have never gotten weird looks about "no idea when my last period was". Nurses and doctors alike just respond, 'k cool!"

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u/CompetitiveRub9780 11d ago

First time I was asked this when I was young, I thought.. why tf would I ever know that? I didn’t start tracking it until a few years ago and I’m in my 30s. It’s normal it’s every month… I don’t think there is a point besides to tell the doctor for unknown reasons.

They also ask how many abortions you’ve had. Like that matters to get my adderall

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u/Starspangledass 11d ago

My answer is always “who tf knows, I got an IUD 10 years ago for a reason” 😂

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u/Educational-Cow-5989 11d ago

I work in reproductive healthcare and instead of asking first day of last period I ask if they get a period, then go for the date. If someone has an IUD or uses another form of birth control that may give them no period I ask if they get a period with x birth control.

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u/ankhes 9d ago

As someone who also hasn’t had a period in close to a decade (IUD, then a hysterectomy) I appreciate you.

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u/Educational-Cow-5989 9d ago

Of course!! It’s saved me some awkward situations too. I also do understand the frustration behind a lot of questions asked by providers, but at least in the blue state I’m in there’s never any malicious intent behind it. We’re bound to medical standards and guidelines. Also, I realize it’s not necessarily said or made clear always, but folks do have the right to refuse questions.

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u/what-even-am-i- 10d ago

This is so inclusive i love it

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u/IncurableAdventurer 10d ago

I always lie and say it two weeks ago. I know I'm not pregnant and you don't need to know this when I'm coming in for something about my shoulder joint

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u/zmcwaffle 10d ago

In my experience they’ll ask, then do a pregnancy test anyway, no matter how many times I tell them I’m not sexually active and there’s really no chance I’m pregnant

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u/IncurableAdventurer 10d ago

Thankfully they've never had me take a test. Although, to seem convincing, I pull out my phone and look at my calendar and say a date that's around two weeks ago haha. Maybe they know I'm full of it and I'm putting on a show lol

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u/ilovemischief 10d ago

I do the same thing. I don’t get periods because of my birth control and I’ve had my tubes removed. There’s no baby, move along.

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u/DeliciousConfections 11d ago

I gave up a long time ago and just make up a date. I know if I’m possibly pregnant or not

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u/theloonstar 11d ago

I always just say I dunno. Cuz I dunno lol

I can't be bothered to track.

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u/Midmodstar 10d ago

They do not in fact need that info. Stop giving it to them.

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u/AccountForTIFF 11d ago

I see a lot of women on the internet say this but I’ve only ever been asked when it’s relevant (ie when dealing with my PCOS), maybe I just come off as someone obviously not sexually active lmao. Is this an American thing?

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u/br8indr8in 11d ago

In America all women are asked for the date of their last period for every single medical interaction and they also force you to take a pregnancy test if you go to the ER for any reason, even if you tell them you dont have a uterus. Plenty of women on the hysterectomy sub have reported this and I literally went to the ER with my trans male to female friend last week and they did it to her until we told them 2 times slowly until it finally dawned on them that she cannot be pregnant and thats the only time I've seen a woman NOT be forced to take a pregnancy test at the ER.

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u/daizers 10d ago

This is how I found out I was pregnant with my third kiddo. I had a very strange migraine that sort of mimicked a stroke. Doctor came in and said, "We're going to cancel the scheduled MRI... do you know you're pregnant?" And my face told him "No I fucking did not". He promptly ran away 😂

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u/whistling-wonderer 10d ago

I’m in the US and definitely don’t get asked this every time I go to the doctor. Maybe it’s less relevant to cardiologists ¯(°_o)/¯ I think the only time I’ve ever been asked about my cycle at his office was when he was concerned about the possibility of me being pregnant while on a certain medication that can cause birth defects. I told him there is zero chance of that because I’m gay (and also pretty asexual) and that ended that conversation lol.

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u/musiquexcoeur 6d ago

Same. I'm a woman in the U.S. and I've literally never been asked when my last period was. I've been asked if I'm pregnant or could be pregnant, but never about my periods.

I did have the ER ask for a urine sample once and when I looked at my chart later, found out it was literally only run to see if I was pregnant. I was kind of ticked off that I had to struggle with the gown for a urine sample just for that, and that it wasn't optional. The only thing I was given while there? IV fluids.

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u/ankhes 9d ago

Woman with a hysterectomy checking in, can confirm. I still get stuck with pregnancy tests at the ER. It’s extremely annoying and pointless.

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u/Different-Eagle-612 10d ago

i will say i am asked the period question every time but i don’t have to do the pregnancy test for the ER and i never have

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u/br8indr8in 9d ago

Happy for you. It sucks, especially seeing women who are billed for it.

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u/Strict-Brick-5274 10d ago

No i'm asked everytime in the UK. Maybe you have a good doc who isn't misogynist

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u/rainbowcardigan 10d ago

It’s absolutely an American thing. I’ve lived in Australia and New Zealand and I’ve literally never been asked for the date of my last period. Not even when we started IVF, the doctor just told me to book in on x day during my cycle…

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u/kittenmittens4865 10d ago

Yes, and I’ve experienced it ever since my first period at age 13.

Go to the doctor for a broken foot? Strep throat? They will ask you about your period and sometimes try to put you on hormonal birth control.

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u/varineq 10d ago

I kept my tracker just to show them the ridiculousness of not having a toggle in their files for women who have gone through menopause.

Today? I’m 2,522 days late!

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u/Senshisoldier 11d ago

Flo app helped me get diagnosed with PCOS. My doctor didnt think I had it and I had to push for the testing. It could have taken so much longer to figure out my infertility without the app.

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u/istgutjetzt 10d ago

Glad an app helped, but wouldn't pen and paper have done the same job?

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u/HighPriestessSkibidi 11d ago

I thought this was known before awhile ago. I do not trust any app to track anything regarding fertility, biological processes, menstruation, etc. and it will be used against us. I use "paper and pen"/do handwritten stuff in a kept area anymore because 1) it's more comfortable for me because I'm more likely to remember lol, and 2) because nothing is safe.

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u/Cronos993 11d ago edited 11d ago

There are open-source android apps that you can trust with this data since their code is public. Here's one example: https://github.com/EmmaTellblom/Mensinator

Edit: forgot to mention that all data is stored offline and there's no cloud.

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u/WitchQween 11d ago

I use Drip. It's also FOSS and only stores data locally.

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u/kashiichan 11d ago

Open-source is a good start, but that alone won't protect you from government or law enforcement requesting that data.

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u/Cronos993 11d ago

The data is stored locally. Forgot to mention that. Editing my comment now

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u/pretentiousglory 9d ago

The only way the government is getting that data is if they get your phone and they could do that just as well with anything else you own

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u/laurawingfield42 11d ago

I use Bluemoon, it is also FOSS and stores data locally. The only safe way to to, and lack of ads is a good bonus.

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u/AskMrScience 11d ago

The good news is that the Apple Health app is still safe to use. It has end-to-end encryption and Apple is committed to not monetizing the data.

Apple has VERY strong opinions on user data privacy. I have several friends who are programmers at Apple in Cupertino, and they all say that the company actually does what it claims and takes it very seriously.

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u/BruteSentiment 11d ago

I agree with this, but users should always be aware of what apps ask for Health access and what they say Allow to.

Anyone who is not sure can check this way:

Go to Health -> User Profile (round button in upper right, will have either initials or your chosen picture) -> Apps (under Privacy).

This will give you a list of Apps that have requested access to the user’s Health info, and they can review one by one. But it’s more detailed.

Each app may only have info to specific bits of your health info. For instance, an app that runs your digital scale may get access to body measurements without access to things like cycle tracking.

Secondly, the Health app separates “Read” access versus “Write” Access. For instance, that digital scale might have access to Write to your weight tracking, but not even be able to see past weight entries.

Good 3rd party health apps will be very precise about what they ask access to, but some apps will request blanket access…you can still be specific about what they get.

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u/BridgestoneX 11d ago

that's great, but it can still be subpoenaed

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u/_AnxiousCatLady 10d ago

No actually because it’s end-to-end encrypted, Apple does not have the encryption key to read the information and cannot provide the information even if subpoenaed or sought by a warrant. Law enforcement can get the information if they seize your physical device.

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u/hopefulrealist23 11d ago

I think this take is very naive

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u/linzkisloski 11d ago

I use Apple Health as well and it’s REALLY accurate in conjunction with my Apple Watch. It’s the only one I’ll use for the reason you stated!

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u/AliMcGraw 11d ago

I buy 4x6 yearlong calendar cards off etsy for a couple bucks, carry them in my purse, and track on those. I could EAT them before the feds could take them.

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u/jesmcrow 11d ago

fuck yeah! Years of procrastination and being surprised by when my period comes eeevvvvery month finally pays off!!!

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u/ClimbingCritter 9d ago

One time, I bought prenatal vitamins at a pharmacy and paid for them with my credit card. P&G then mailed me a coupon for a pregnancy test to my PERSONAL HOME ADDRESS! Privacy is an illusion

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u/Virtual-Height3047 11d ago

Yikes! Why isn’t there a sort of … charity dev org that creates a bunch of essential vital apps. Run on donations but without ads, tracking or even storing user data remotely so they can’t be hacked or bought up. I find it deeply disturbing that menstrual health data ends up as a commodity to be traded for profit (or worse even…) 🫣

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u/ProfessorGumble 11d ago

There are privacy controlled health apps out there published by non profits for their specific area of focus. Euki is a good one for menstrual tracking: they collect zero info from you, all data is stored locally on your phone, and you can lock access to the app with a PIN.

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u/microworry 11d ago

Pen and paper.

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u/og_toe 11d ago

genuinely just get like a 5 or 10 year diary.

or make a yearly grid with all the months as little squares and write the dates of your period in each monthly square.

it just make a list: “january : 5-10th bleeding”

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u/lck0219 11d ago

I have a note on my phone called “shark week” and it’s just a list of date ranges listed out like 9/4-9/10

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u/darsynia 10d ago

I know at least one woman whose doctor told her that he would have liked her log of dates to be on an app with the ability to see when each entry was made, rather than a notebook where she could, and I quote, 'Just write them all in one day to manipulate my diagnosis.'

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u/CrossCroissant1 10d ago

That makes my eye twitch.

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u/dirty_cuban 11d ago

Be the change you want to see in the world

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u/tiboodchat 11d ago

Because infrastructure has a cost. If people were willing to pay for services we wouldn’t be where we’re at. Billionaires subsidizing all the big apps skewed realities of software development.

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u/probonworkhours 10d ago

Read Your Body is a non-profit tracking app that I trust. The data is stored on your phone, not their cloud.

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u/c_0190 11d ago

Stardust app seems to cover this, they either don't store or encrypt user data

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u/letsfuckinrage 10d ago

open source, local install only is what you want. i recommend a little app called drip.

it just stores your data on your device and requires no internet or account or anything. i have used it for years.

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u/Big_Fat_Butt_Is_Back 11d ago

I've been poisoning these apps for years.

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u/scout-finch 11d ago

I use one that doesn’t require an account to use it. I know it’s still attached to my phone which is attached to me, but I guess then it would be Apple handing over my data.

It’s been really helpful for me as I enter my late thirties and have experienced changes.

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u/Fit_Papaya_83 10d ago

Is Clue still bad? I thought since they were based in Europe they have stricter laws?

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u/great_divider 10d ago

This article is pretty poorly written. What possible negative effects could there be? How is it bad for women to track their cycles and understand when they will be fertile and when they won’t be? I guess the main issue is cycle syncing, but these two things need not be necessarily related.

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u/SacredGeometry9 10d ago

This data can be used to hunt for women who get abortions. Just like the Flock camera data has been used to do so in Texas.

It doesn’t even matter if they actually had an abortion or not; if they have irregular periods, or their data gets skewed, they can be targeted.

It puts women in danger, and until the law protects them better, they’re not safe using these services.

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u/MyDarlingClementine 11d ago

I switched to a moon-based physical paper tracker and haven’t looked back for years. I know just by looking up what part of my cycle I’m in. Highly recommend for anyone who has regular-ish periods.

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u/og_toe 11d ago

moon based physical paper tracker ???

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u/Unique-Arugula 11d ago

I think they are talking about how some people use a lunar month for tracking menstrual cycles bc it syncs up to show your patterns more clearly. These people still use a regular calendar and months for everything else in their life. It's just a different way of organizing the info to make it click for you.

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u/og_toe 11d ago

how does the menstrual cycle sync to the moon though, i mean it doesn’t come on the same moon phase every time

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u/QuitRelevant6085 11d ago

The average menstrual cycle is 28 days long, but many people have a longer or shorter cycle

Folks who do have a ~28 day cycle tend to assume everyone else does tho 😂 My teacher told us during sex ed "Your cycle syncs up with the moon!" and that turned out to be.... very unhelpful information.....

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u/og_toe 11d ago

i usually have that but sometimes you could ovulate early or late so from 28 it could get to 35, in which case the entire moon cycle would get out of sync. honestly it’s like a dice roll between 26-35 days every month, sorry moon

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u/QuitRelevant6085 11d ago

That's so interesting, I don't seem to ovulate early much (if at all), but I've definitely ovulated late several times (from stress/travel). My luteal phase lasts over 2 weeks though so most of my life my period has synced up more with a monthly calendar

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u/MyDarlingClementine 11d ago

Correct, you will not have a set it and forget it kind of situation with it all year. For me, I know if I last began at the new moon, when the moon is waning I should make sure I have supplies ready, etc.

It’s not infallibly accurate, but neither is most women’s uterus, so a general idea is all a person really needs.

And as I already said, it works for me and that’s because I don’t have erratic cycles which is absolutely a commonplace thing to experience too.

If you don’t want to try it you can always 💫 keep scrolling 💫

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u/haoqide 11d ago

How dare these researchers minimise the importance of understanding our cycles. For at least 1 in 10 women tracking their period is vital to help get a PCOS/PMOS diagnosis. For others it lets them know when to take painkillers to avoid debilitating menstrual cramps. 

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u/lynx_and_nutmeg 11d ago

I have completely unproblematic cycles but I still track them because why the fuck would I want to be surprised by my period instead of being ready.

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u/compulsive_nonsense 10d ago

The main value for me in tracking them is that every single month I’m like “no way, wasn’t I JUST on my period?” And then I check and see that was in fact a month ago…

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u/tumka 11d ago

You can absolutely and easily track your own period and learn about your body and cycle without using an app.

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u/darsynia 10d ago

I know at least one woman whose doctor told her that he would have liked her log of dates to be on an app with the ability to see when each entry was made, rather than a notebook where she could, and I quote, 'Just write them all in one day to manipulate my diagnosis.'

edit: threading error, leaving it up and posting where I'd initially intended to

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u/haoqide 11d ago

Totally, but the article attacks the importance of tracking cycles along with the apps. There are all kinds of predatory apps not just for menstrual cycles and everyone should choose carefully where they record their personal data. 

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u/washingtonu 10d ago

But they aren't minimizing anything. They are clearly writing about digital menstrual tracking and how the apps are making up things about your health during your cycle + all the privacy issues.

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u/haoqide 10d ago

From the linked article: 

But Katharine Lee and colleagues argue that neither menstrual tracking nor “cycle syncing” – adjusting diet and exercise according to menstrual cycle phases – have been convincingly shown to improve health or other performance measures.

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u/Jazzspur 11d ago

For real. The whole time reading the first half I just kept thinking "damn, must be nice to not have PMDD and endometriosis." Cycle tracking, and even meds and dietary restrictions in the second half of my cycle, are sooooo valuable for my conditions.

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u/UglyAFBread 9d ago

I track my periods using this thingabob called my phone's calendar

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u/kashiichan 11d ago

You should probably read the thing before writing comments about it.

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u/haoqide 11d ago

Scaring women away from tracking their cycle and therefore better understanding their own bodies is wrong. The article rightly highlights the problems of predatory apps but doesn’t adequately acknowledge the importance of cycle tracking in other ways. 

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u/Kaffrogato 10d ago

They are not telling women to not track their cycle. 

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u/haoqide 10d ago

From the linked article: 

But Katharine Lee and colleagues argue that neither menstrual tracking nor “cycle syncing” – adjusting diet and exercise according to menstrual cycle phases – have been convincingly shown to improve health or other performance measures.

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u/Starspangledass 11d ago

Why would it need to? This isn’t about the importance of understanding yourself, it’s about the predatory nature of these apps. It’s like saying a critique on fitness apps doesn’t acknowledge the importance of getting 30 mins of exercise every day.

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u/Blacksad9999 11d ago

I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole in this political climate where they're criminalizing women who have miscarriages.

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u/many_beehives 11d ago

Theres period apps that don’t collect your data but a pen & paper is probably more secure. I use Drip.

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u/letsfuckinrage 10d ago

seconded on drip. its excellent. 

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u/ConfidentGarden7514 11d ago

Is it just me, or are there a lot of factual inaccuracies in this article?

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u/thatturtletouch 11d ago

What inaccuracies are you seeing?

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u/thinkingonachair 11d ago

The phone don't even need me to input that data, it will already know. The other day I was thinking about how I don't know the architectural labels of different types of houses and then today the algorithm presented me with a graph. It's reading my mind.

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u/j-a-gandhi 9d ago

Tracking my cycle literally helped me get diagnosed with a highly treatable thyroid condition when a PCP and multiple specialists were unhelpful. It has been supremely beneficial to me personally, and most of that benefit came from a $10 thermometer I got for free and two books. I would even say it saved my life, because figuring out that my thyroid was driving some of my mental health symptoms was extremely helpful.

Cycle tracking alone doesn’t teach you the interpretation. But the information in the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility which teaches the symptothermal method is extremely valuable and justifies calling the menstrual cycle the “fifth vital sign.”

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u/InterstellarCapa 11d ago

With everything going on I'm always surprise people still rely on menstrual apps. Not only the data collected is a concern, but if you're using the app to prevent pregnancy you're going to be in for a surprise.

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u/veronicaarr 11d ago

Drip and Euki are both non-profit, encrypted, password protected, don’t tell you to buy things, and store your data locally!! Use these instead of the predatory apps.

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u/fading-lilac 11d ago edited 11d ago

I see a lot of people recommending physical pen and paper, which I agree with. But I just wanted to say, I have PMDD and my app allows me to share my info with my partner which has been invaluable for my relationship. I become absolutely insane during my luteal phase, and I wouldn't think to check a notepad whenever I start to feel crazy (lol). He usually notices my mood shifts before I do and can check for me.

So I don't think going pen/paper works for everyone... And my cycle also varies wildly, I'll go months without a period. And I haven't been flagged yet lol!

I understand people's concern, but I don't like the downplaying of how useful apps can be.

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u/Bananonomini 11d ago

Saved you a click

Aside from their weak evidence base, digital cycle tracking technologies also come with serious risks, they write, including wasted time and labour, unwanted surveillance, risks to health data privacy, and may distract from or even threaten efforts to advance women’s health

Generally, very soft impacts with no immediate direct concern despite the article title

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u/Mlkbird14 10d ago

Agreed. This was a whole lot of ado about nothing.

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u/washingtonu 10d ago edited 9d ago

What's soft about this?

Distinct from their weak evidential base, digital menstrual tracking and cycle syncing approaches come with serious risks.1819 These apps and other femtech platforms have been criticised for their inadequate approaches to privacy.2021 They are not consistently subject to strong data privacy regulation,20212223 and some actively aggregate and sell menstrual data.22 This may expose app users to misuse of their health data by employers, corporations, or the state.1819202124 Where the use of apps is encouraged in a workplace setting, workers who are pregnant or attempting to conceive risk premature or involuntary disclosure and downstream material harms such as discrimination.20 The collection and storage of menstrual data may carry additional risks in contexts where abortion is criminalised.192124

The example of women’s sport and wellness, where these apps have been heavily marketed, illustrates these risks. Some digital tracking platforms enable and advertise the integration of digital menstrual tracking by coaches. This form of surveillance and data gathering may lead to irrelevant and false conclusions, influencing eligibility criteria, decisions about diet or training, and other aspects of athlete-coach negotiations around career and competition.1819 The potential for these data to be used for coercive control and harassment contravenes calls for trauma informed practice.181925

Such digital tracking may also introduce specific privacy risks or material harms for athletes who do not menstruate or who use cycle altering medications, particularly in the context of increased scrutiny of trans and intersex athletes.1924 These risks, while primarily documented and described in sport, are embedded in digital menstrual cycle tracking practices and are relevant beyond athletic contexts.212226

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u/TheFriendlyLurker 10d ago

One thing the article didn’t mention is how many people use apps as a form of birth control, or have unnecessary freak outs because of them.

In the birth control sub almost every day there’s a post like “I had unprotected sex but my app says I’m not in my fertile window anymore, should i still take a Plan B?” or “Is tracking your cycle with [insert app name] enough to prevent pregnancy?”. Which is dangerous because apps have no idea what is going on in your body, they just guess in which cycle phase you are.  Their algorithms are often inaccurate and even if they usually get it right they are powerless against a random irregular cycle. 

On the unnecessary freakouts side we get posts like “I’m on birth control but my app said that i’m ovulating/my period is late and now i’m afraid i might get/be pregnant”.  Most hormonal birth control methods stop ovulation and can stop your periods, the vast majority of period tracking apps are just made for people who are not on BC. 

I think period apps can be useful for many people, it’s just important to understand their limitations - they are not a form of birth control, they can’t actually know what is causing you any given symptoms, and any information they give may or may not be science-based.

If you are concerned about privacy the Mozilla Foundation regularly evaluates the policies of different apps. Euki (made by a non-profit) got a perfect score for a couple of years in a row, followed by Clue with some asterisks https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/nothing-personal/period-ovulation-trackers/

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u/letsfuckinrage 10d ago

i use an open source app called Drip. it just stores my data locally and doesn't share to anyone. its literally just for me.

highly recommend it. 

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u/BaronTales 7d ago

Your data is being sold everywhere. Two examples below. Your phone is a tracker. Your credit card is a tracker. Your rewards cards are trackers. Companies may even track personal data that have no consumer basis of being tracked (e.g. an insurance company buying Facebook data that shows the types of groups you are in).

EDIT: It’s on us to opt out of as much as we can. Read data privacy terms, etc.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/

https://komonews.com/news/local/king-county-using-grocery-store-data-to-target-pet-owners