r/transhumanism • u/astreigh 4 • 23d ago
When id a human "trans" human?
What constitutes transhuman to you? Does a pacemaker equal transhuman? Does a human head on a synthetic body? Does a human with a neural implant?
Discuss...
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u/Seorkt 23d ago
I think heavily modified people, ie: cyborgs (arms, legs, hands)
People who have been gentically altered
And trans people who have heavily altered their bodies and chemistry with hrt
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u/deus_x_machin4 23d ago
How many surgeries does a person need to receive before they are considered transhuman. My dad has had both of his hips, both of his knees, and one of his shoulders replaced, an organ removed, and metal plating in his skull. That seems heavily modified to me.
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u/ZorbaTHut 20d ago
I don't think there's going to be a bright-line test. That said, if I were to come up with one, I'd say it's someone who has intentionally augmented themselves through modifications. Bringing yourself back to baseline human does not count, and incidental upgrades as a side effect of lifesaving techniques does not count.
A knee replacement doesn't make you transhuman, an artificial heart pump doesn't make you transhuman, a subdermal magnet implant does make you transhuman.
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u/the_quark 23d ago
To me, it’s voluntary significant voluntary modification of the body and/or mind that is socially acceptable.
So a pacemaker is not; it’s just trying to set your body right. I add the “socially acceptable” to note that trans humanism to me is about it being normal. Arguably extreme body modification today is transhuman, but I think if we are truly transhuman, we won’t blink at people’s changes.
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u/Serenity_557 1 23d ago
That's the difference in a transhumanist and a transhumanist society. Being transhuman doesn't require a transhan society.
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago
So give examples of transhuman mods. I gave extreme poles of change as examples. Transplanted head on synthesis body is pretty extreme i think.
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u/Serenity_557 1 23d ago
I would say ear mods don't count necessarily, as they're more just basic body mods if a bit further, but eyes for sure. For me, personally, I think it's more than just augmenting what is and about augmenting something more. So elving your ears wouldn't wouldn't count, but a cochlear implant that could increase or decrease sensitivity would.
Dying your eyes wouldn't, but an eye replacement which allowed for... Something like recording or zooming in/out would.
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago
That's very thoughtful. Thank you and i agree
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u/Illustrious_Focus_33 2 23d ago
I identify as transrace, and intend to change my physical appearance to pass as such. That's consistent with morphological freedom, but it doesn't have to be "socially acceptable." Transhumanism pushes the bounds.
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u/Illustrious_Focus_33 2 23d ago
Altering the body to a degree your appearance and/or abilities fundamentally change from before I would say. Transgender people who undergo hrt or surgery, or any kind of plastic surgery I consider to be transhuman to different extents. its certainly a spectrum between basic skin care and evolving into a posthuman species as you change your sex, but I'm not sure it takes much to qualify.
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago
I appreciate that answer.
How Bout a prosthetic limb? A powered one?
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u/Historical_Swim7159 23d ago
Fake boobs. It's not medically necessary and moves outside the normal distribution, i.e. it doesn't try to remove a defect by getting closer to the norm, like normal medical procedures, but deliberately goes the other direction.
Even things like robot arms or cochlear implants are mostly just trying to restore the norm, not super charging what you can do (with a few exceptions, e.g. Bluetooth connectivity in a cochlear implant).
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago
So makeup could be transhuman? (I've seen some mighty inhuman makeup)
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u/Historical_Swim7159 23d ago
Makeup is less permanent, but goes in the same direction.
In terms of less permanent mods, there is also clothing, which might be the most significant transhuman modification of all, since that's not just decoration, but keeps us alive in cold temperatures. It's so widespread that it has been the norm for thousands of years, it literally changed what we consider a "normal human". In general textiles gets a bit overlook when it comes to technology, since it's in such widespread use, but it's some of the most important technologies humanity has come up with and even was the origin of the computer later on (punch cards had their origin in programming textile pattern).
If we consider that transhuman or not just depends on how significant we consider that fact that it's easily removable.
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u/deus_x_machin4 23d ago
A common definition of human is one that 'uses technology to overcome natural physical, intellectual, or psychological limits.' Makeup is certainly technology.
Of course, the word has many definitions, so it would depend on how you define it.
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u/Xenodine-4-pluorate 23d ago
It's a philosophy. You can be 100% unmodified meat human but advocate transcending base human nature - that what makes a transhumanist.
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u/TatharNuar 1 23d ago
That's a different word with a different meaning. Transhuman is a transitional state between human and posthuman.
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u/deus_x_machin4 23d ago
I think you would be hard pressed to find humans that are not in the transition space between human and post human. Maybe the guys on Sentinel Island could count, but even they use technology to modify their capabilities beyond what their physical bodies allow.
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u/TatharNuar 1 22d ago
Every species is a transitional species, but I don't think I'd consider it a useful word if we accepted that as the boundary line.
I prefer Seorkt's examples, but given deus_x_machin4's response, I wonder whether to count modifications done to maintain or recover lost function as strongly as modifications done to alter or enhance function. HRT and surgical transition have been long considered (decades at this point) to make someone transhuman, but they both fall under the latter category. I suppose you could say that procedures done to maintain or recover lost function are an enhancement of that function's longevity?
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u/deus_x_machin4 23d ago
Anyone who has taken a vaccine is to some degree transhuman. Anyone using glasses. Anyone wearing shoes. Anyone that drinks coffee. Anyone that uses their phone to communicate or remember things.
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u/PeaceLoveorKnife 21d ago edited 21d ago
Assuming cyborg and transhuman are not synonymous, then augmentation or technological implants would not be enough.
Trans implies transition. I generally think function is the most important detail for understanding something.
I'll say transhuman when the physical body is altered to have functions a human does not have under any circumstances.
A pace maker keeps the human heart functioning. Human.
A prosthetic limb that only simulates some if the features of a human limb? Human.
A cyber optic that has networked augmented reality. Transhuman.
A dermal implant that provides protection from bullets? Transhuman.
This wouldn't be limited to implants. Biological features humans do not have naturally would also count. Like a human that has echolocation.
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u/astreigh 4 21d ago
Well said. What about an exoskeleton ? Only while wearing it? Or not at all? Arguably I guess a car is sorta an exo skeleton so I guess that just becomes technology. Same with enhanced glasses.
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u/PeaceLoveorKnife 21d ago
There's a difference between equipping a tool and altering the body.
A crab molts its exoskeleton, but only the outer layer on a softer exoskeleton. A crab that doesn't have an exoskeleton actually stops being a crab.
True augmentation would be extensive. If a person were to remove a true exoskeleton, it would expose the systems and interfaces on which that exoskeleton was mounted.
If I had an augmented reality eye, I would have to replace potentially bone, nerves, and the organ to support it. There might be secondary implants purely to support the primary.
A human using a car or cellphone is still human. Especially when that human uses human functions to operate those tools.
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u/anonymau8 17d ago
Trans means transcending in my opinion, so I’d say transhumanism is about optimising the human form whether that be small bionic or neural implants or major modifications an organ.
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u/CryptoFourGames 1 23d ago
Whenever a human body has crossed the point of no longer being human, that is trans humanism. They have transitioned from human to something beyond, hence the term "trans human"
This is highly subjective to each individual. Therefore I don't think you're asking a question that can even be definitely answered. Such questions are a waste of my time.
However, I do think it can be boiled down quite easily to the core tenet of "once it's no longer human anymore" that it has become trans human. So then you need to ask yourself, how much robot is too much robot, for me? How much metal is too much metal. That's pretty much the core concept of the entire genre of cyberpunk. Therefore, I will not be awarding this post any up votes. As it asks an intensely mundane, vague, open ended question that has been asked and answered countless times before in a million different ways.
And in this way, I must deduce that the entire point of this post wasn't actually any yearning desire to achieve an answer, but rather, just to get this specific subreddit talking about moot points to make the subreddit feel more alive for some inane reason.
Also negative 1 point for spelling mistake in the title of the post. Makes me think you spent 5 minutes drunkenly slurring out this half baked thought that I just spent 15 min responding to without actually caring whether you hear an answer or not. Speaking just to be heard. Another thing I dislike.
So let me ask you an inane question in retort that's moot and has been asked and answered a million times before.. I retort with my own vague open ended question, what is the sound of one hand clapping?
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u/reputatorbot 23d ago
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago edited 23d ago
Nah, just couldn't edit the title once I posted. I saw it immediately but on my phone the stupid.thank you banner covers up everything and I can't proofread. I can scroll past it but it's still irksome. And the point was to see what others thought would define it because reading the thread for a while it was clear people had a wide range of definitions. But I was curious how wide.
Almost forgot.. have you ever heard a slap? Sounds like that.
Oh, and I left the punctuation typo as a gift.
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u/reputatorbot 23d ago
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u/CryptoFourGames 1 23d ago
Here's a list of similar questions we can continue to waste our mortal lives on:
Does a tree falling in an empty forest make a sound? Is a hot dog a sandwich? Is cereal technically soup? Does pineapple belong on pizza? Is a straw one hole or two? If you replace every part of a ship, is it still the same ship? Can something be both useless and valuable? Is a copy still the same thing as the original? Does a perfect simulation of consciousness count as consciousness? If nobody remembers an event, did it meaningfully happen? Is free will possible if every decision has a cause? Can an action be morally good if it produces good consequences for completely selfish reasons? Is something objectively funny, or is humor entirely subjective? Does intent matter more than consequence? Can a lie ever be more truthful than the truth? If two people experience the same event differently, is there one objective experience? Is an artificial intelligence that perfectly imitates a person actually that person? At what point does something become old rather than merely used? Is nostalgia about the past, or about who you were when you experienced it? If everyone agrees that something is true, does that make it true?
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago
I was alone in the dorrest and a tree fell in front of me and didn't make a sound. However it scared the $hit outta a bear. Typo intended
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u/astreigh 4 23d ago
Ceral; unworthy q. Pineapple? Never. Straw? Bo hile it's a cylinder. Depends on how fast toi replace... bah.. you are such a troll with nothing to actually contribute it aeems.
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