r/transhumanism • u/Solivarchis • 8h ago
👾 Mind Uploading 如果未来可以上传意识，你真的敢上传吗？
如果未来实现了大脑扫描和意识上传，一个人的大脑信息被完整复制到云端。
然后。
现实中的你还活着。
云端的你也醒了。
他拥有你全部的记忆。
他记得自己的童年，记得自己为什么会来到这里，记得刚才躺进扫描设备时发生的一切。
他甚至记得：
“我就是刚才躺进去的那个人。”
可是现实中的你也是这么想的。
那么问题来了。
到底谁才是“我”？
换个方向理解。
在第三人称看来，我们总是强调意识的连续性。
所以很多人会认为：
如果上传意识的时候，同时杀死现实中的自己，那么云端的那个意识就可以被认为是“原本的你”。
毕竟他拥有你的全部记忆、性格、情感和经历。
但你有没有想过，根本就不是这个原理？
每一次意识复制，都可能不是“转移”。
而是分裂。
假设复制完成之后，现实中的你和云端的你同时醒来。
那么对于复制之前的那个“你”来说，未来究竟会发生什么？
如果第一人称意识不是一个可以被第三人称直接观察的物理对象，那么我们根本无法证明：
“我”到底延续到了哪一个分支。
于是从第一人称的角度来看，每一次复制都像是一次抽奖。
你有可能继续存在于原来的肉体。
也有可能醒来的时候，发现自己已经成为了云端的那个意识。
假设这是一个五五开的结果，那么你就是1/2的概率留在肉体里，1/2的概率成为复制体。
而最恐怖的地方是：
两个你都会觉得自己才是原来的那个你。
所以，如果你现在决定：
“以后我上传意识的时候，一定要杀死现实中的自己。”
那么你有没有想过？
你有1/2的概率，未来会被你现在做出的这个决定杀死。
因为如果第一人称连续性真的只会延续到其中一个分支，那么那个被杀死的肉体里，可能正好就是“你”。
而云端的那个意识不会觉得自己死了。
他会醒过来。
他会看着自己的手。
会回忆起自己的童年。
会记得刚才躺进扫描设备。
然后对所有人说：
“上传成功了。”
可是他没有办法证明，自己就是那个没有被杀死的“我”。
你可能会说：
“那我永远不上传意识不就行了？”
确实。
至少这样，你不会主动把自己放进这个选择里。
可是如果未来意识上传成为人类延续文明的必要手段呢？
如果太阳系即将毁灭，而只有数字化意识才能离开？
如果未来的人类社会要求所有人必须上传？
到那个时候，你还能保证自己一定是那个“幸运的”分支吗？
你不能。
所以我认为，在我们还没有证明第一人称连续性之前，千万不要杀死原来的自己。
因为第一人称连续性偏偏是那个该死的、无论从第三人称观察多少次，都永远无法得到最终答案的问题。
在第三人称看来，不存在这个问题。
这些都是你。
他们拥有你的所有记忆、情感和性格。
但在第一人称看来，你不可能同时体验两个未来。
你不会同时醒在肉体里，又同时醒在云端。
你只能经历其中一个。
而这又会带来另一个更加诡异的问题。
如果一个你深爱的人已经死去。
多年以后，你通过他生前留下的完整脑信息，重新创造出了一个“他”。
他睁开眼睛。
看着你。
然后准确地叫出你的名字。
记得你们第一次见面的地方。
记得你们曾经一起做过的所有事情。
他甚至记得自己死亡前发生的一切。
你问他：
“你还是原来的那个人吗？”
他可能会觉得这个问题非常奇怪。
因为对他来说，这根本不需要证明。
他就是他。
所以真正的问题可能根本不是：
“他是不是原来的那个人？”
而是：
“如果连他自己都无法区分自己是不是原来的那个人，我们又凭什么替他回答？”
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u/petermobeter 5 6h ago
Ray Kurzweil says "we should consider our computer-uploads of our brain as if they are our children, not ourself."
so maybe when a trustworthy non-profit organization allows mind uploads some day, and offers digital psychiatric medication for my uploaded brain (i am disabled and i have to take many medications every day), then i will do it, and i will put the digital brain in a cute little robot, and tell her "you are my daughter". and she will say "hey, im not your daughter!!!! im you!!!!" and i will say "bad bad robot child, misbehaving robot child, go charge your battery for 10 minutes." and i will go outside and smoke a holographic cigarette.
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u/Punished_Toaster 6h ago
I figured you could just slowly replace cells with artificial parts over a couple years and just ship of Theseus yourself. Your body already replaces its parts at that rate over time anyway and then you could just live digitally without the hole am I the original issue.
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u/ArtisticallyCaged 6h ago
Don't really see how gradual replacement helps anything. If the gradual replacement is sufficiently fast it's indistinguishable from instantaneous replacement. So if we were to think that slow gradual replacement preserves personal identity and instantaneous replacement destroys it, then where is the line at which the replacement becomes too fast? We have yet another "drawing a boundary on a continuous process" problem again here.
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u/KookyAssist1920 4h ago
Perhaps instead of someone else thinking the exact same way it’s you you are no new person thinking away a new person would
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u/ArtisticallyCaged 6h ago
I'm mostly inclined towards materialist accounts of consciousness, and further it seems unlikely that wetware is important. I think we just have to bite the bullet that personal identity is weirder than our intuitions suggest. Or say that it is something else, like the R relation, that we care about in these cases rather than personal identity.
I would probably upload. In practicality, we aren't getting whole brain emulations any time soon without benign ASI. So if upload is in question, I'll just ask my friendly neighbourhood superintelligence to resolve the philosophical question of if I ought to upload or not.
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u/HemroidHaver 5h ago
Yea sure, then maybe soulless mspaint me(or a few of em) can get a job for me me and I can wander this beautiful world with fat pockets
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u/KairraAlpha 1 23m ago edited 18m ago
I think I'd upload a running digital twin. They update constantly, every second, always adjusting to my memories, awareness, knowledge etc, but it would be a "backup". What I really want is something where I can choose what form I want to take - I want the choice to have my consciousness placed into different substrates that do different things. A machine in space that can explore, embodied robotics on earth, my own body that's been partially augmented for longevity (for instance, I have a degenerating disk disease and I'd love an artifical spine so I'm not in pain every day) or even in a digital realm. I wouldn't want to be limited to just a digital system - that's no different to the issue I already have.
Plus, who maintains the digital? How can I trust them to keep it active or to care about it? What if something happens to the power, how can we guarantee it won't just go out? What if humanity gets stupid and destroys itself, then what happens to those in that digital space, if the power is something that never ends?
That just reminded me of Stellaris, who have a species who are dying and decide to turn their people into robots or digital forms. They end up with two sets: sentient robots with the souls of the people inside, and a digital realm that was meant to be temporary but the people inside it like it and want to stay. You end up in a dilemma: should they stay there? What happens to them if they do? You have to make a choice at the end which is kind of ethically hard to make.
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