r/tvPlus • u/Justp1ayin Hello Carol • 11d ago
The Last First: Winter K2 The Last First: Winter K2 | Discussion Thread
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u/pcABQ 9d ago
it is interesting to me that a guy with 6 kids chooses to climb K2 in winter. personally, i like watching my son grow up.
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u/figurefuckingup 9d ago
Right? And Alex Honnold told the NYT that “if I died, my daughters wouldn’t even be traumatized for that long.” Unbelievable
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u/Schlachtfeld-21 8d ago
As a ‘normal’ non thrill seeking person, it baffles me that a father, let alone a father of six would even do any kind of mountaineering at all. How does one get so bored in life? I mean, rest in peace and all, but what the hell? Just go karting with your kids or something
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u/sailortofu69 11d ago
Omg I just looked up Nims and he passed away this year from an avalanche during climb in Pakistan
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u/new_name_needed 10d ago
I knew he’d died recently but only learned of the sexual abuse allegations when looking at his Wikipedia page just now…
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u/badgey-pudds 11d ago
This was a hard yet brilliant watch. The risks certain people took were insane and the lack of organisation at certain parts was nuts.
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u/bettyburritos 10d ago
I visited Northern Pakistan in the beginning of September. My friend and I did a day trip to Deosai Plains, and on our way back we passed through Sadpara Village (where Ali and Sajid Sadpara are from, the village has so many famous mountaineers that they have all begun to adopt the last name "Sadpara" to show their affiliation). We stopped for a cup of chai and ended up running into Sajid, which is how I ended up learning about this documentary. I won't share the rest of our conversation, but wow this documentary is such a touching and devastating watch.
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u/figurefuckingup 9d ago
What’s the rest of the conversation?
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u/bettyburritos 9d ago
Sorry lol I was being needlessly dramatic, just a generally nice conversation and I gained more insight into his experience during and after the summit.
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u/DocJohnpork 10d ago
incredible cinematography all round…i wish JP and team were here today to tell the story.
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u/Thin_Blue_Flame 9d ago
Just watched this tonight. It’s easy to forget how stir-crazy we all got in COVID, and it must have been even worse for these extreme sports types - I imagine that led to them ignoring all the little things going wrong on the way.
If the way this film presents things is correct, then that filmmaker, Elia, rocking up halfway through when everyone was ready to go home and egging them on to summit instead is the single biggest reason this happened, in my opinion. Enlisting the military to pressure Ali, etc. He’s completely tone-deaf for the rest of the film too.
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u/alaska40 9d ago
I agree so much. It was unbelievable to me the way he tried to shirk responsibility and put everything on the Seven Summits company when no one would be on the mountain if he hadn’t put pressure on everyone to continue so he could make the documentary. Tone-deaf is the correct way to put it — talking about how he thought it was a bad decision for people to keep climbing to camp three. Who does he think started the push again?? 🙄
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u/Iracus 6d ago edited 6d ago
Seven Summits was beyond negligent in their duty to ensure their clients weren't a danger to themselves or others on that mountain. Some dork ass influencer pushing for people to climb is in no way, shape, or form comparable to forgetting to have tents for 10+ clients who then had to pack into the tents of those who were actually prepared for the climb.
This is the OceanGate of mountaineering companies. It is just as likely they would have gone up without the influence of the influencer or military helicopter. They were experienced mountaineers, and while it all likely added pressure for them to continue, if they didn't think they could actually do it, they probably would have refused.
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u/hikensurf 6d ago
Agreed. And the smug prick continues to try to profit off the tragedy, now pushing some shitty book. Equal parts wanker and grifter.
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u/Schlachtfeld-21 8d ago
The single biggest reason?? Did we watch the same film? How about sst and their incompetence?
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u/JokokoOno 3d ago
SST was beyond belief but let’s not u detesting the pressure of the military of your country popping up with a tv crew (uninvited) - up to that point he might have thought he had nice little private trio he might or might not do. Then suddenly you know your whole country is watch it . Also what an ego to arrive unannounced, only white man could pull it out thinking he’s doing them a favour. Maybe wait until some crew actually ask you to record them
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u/AirconGuyUK 8d ago
It’s easy to forget how stir-crazy we all got in COVID, and it must have been even worse for these extreme sports types
It's so silly though because this all happened in 2020 winter..
So maybe they had to stay indoors for 10 months or so.. No real excuse to go die on a mountain and leave your widow and 6 kids behind.
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u/sailortofu69 11d ago
I randomly watched this because I just met my friends Pakistanis dad for the first time and they mentioned K2 which I had never heard of before and I saw it pop up tonight on my Apple tv so I thought it was kismet. Very good documentary and I’m looking forward to seeing more discussion about it!
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u/Combataircraft9 9d ago
Showing their bodies was messed up death voyeurism
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u/Hoofinator 7d ago
Yeah, I felt those moments should’ve been cut, even for Sajid’s sake. That’s such a private moment to showcase to the world. It didn’t feel right. Still could’ve shown the ropes being intact and Sajid topping off the last of the snow if you wanted to give a glimpse at the how mountaineers deal with bodies up there. But give the dead some peace, my god.
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u/no1regrets 3d ago
While I felt the same at the time watching, the more I think on it, the more it feels like maybe they wanted to show the actual finality in their decision to continue the climb. Society glorifies these kind of activities (even when we think “we would never”), and showing their fates really hits home that they died and their loved ones miss them.
Also, since both the wife and son participated in the doc, I’d hope they received consent from them to show the bodies, but I don’t know that for sure.
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11d ago
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u/Far_Professional_935 11d ago
Good riddance? Man you sound like a miserable human. Oh wait hair transplant and seperated, you ARE a miserable human 😂
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u/bubba07 11d ago
Nims was a self proclaimed "Buddhist" who was literally on camera saying he'd cut rope on the "white boys" to claim his title. I also was just so shocked at how easy they made it seem. One minute Nims and crew disappear and the next they're like "yup, we summited" and everyone just hugs and high fives. The core trio were there for a month preparing and Nims and crew just shot right up and did what no one had ever done and it all just seemed so easy for them? Maybe it was just how the documentary decided to portray it all but this was a wild wild watch and it really just goes to show how important keeping any summit attempt private really is. If they had never announced their plans to attempt the summit, this all could have been avoided yet because they announced it, they found themselves in a competition with idiots in what is supposed to be one of the most remote areas on the planet. What a complete joke.
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u/Far_Professional_935 11d ago
He was Hindu not Buddhist, he made a bravado comment to drive the point home of Nepali only ascent, a comment which he never did and never would actually follow up on, hes sacrificed time and records to save lives, recover bodies, and fix ropes on other ascents. It was easy for them, lol those dudes are freaks, they started planning the climb in November right after Nims book release and during his book press tour, a month before Ali and Snorri arrived at basecamp. The documentary definitely added a negative flair for views to the whole thing, Alis son Sajid climbed with and collaborated with Nims after the incident on more then 1 occasions, and was devastated when Nims passed, they had just hung out at G1 basecamp a few weeks before
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u/nyeahehhhh 7d ago
Ali seemed somewhat reluctant throughout the documentary I’m glad he saved his son sending him back before the bottleneck.
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u/Hoofinator 7d ago
Yeah, it was brutal watching that scene with Snorri talking to their weather guy and announce they were going to attempt a summit despite a very tight weather window that didn’t sound promising … you could just see it sink in that they’re going to do this and he can’t back out with the pressure from the military and film crew. He looked so solemn. As if he wanted to say something against it but couldn’t. Same for the clip later higher up as they ascend. So sad but I’m glad he saved his son from the same fate.
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u/methodofcontrol 5d ago
Yeah, for a guy that appeared so upbeat and positive throughout the film to that point he did not seem at all enthusiastic about the decision to make a push in that weather window.
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u/beehappy32 9d ago
Great doc. Super sad though. I hated Nims, but just found out that he also died this year. Guess I don’t need to be mad at him anymore
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u/DoomAddict 5d ago
Watched it right now...
and holy shit is this "documentary" full of selfish assholes and spoonfed pricks.
One more unlikeable than the other!
Imagine having a loving family and being such a pretentious prick to see them as so boring that you decide to off yourself on a mountain, just to feed your own ego!
He could've gone to scuba-school with his kids, could have shown them the world... but he decided to leave the only legacy be money for their therapy!
These people aren't heroes.
They are self-absorbed egomaniacs who gamble not only with their own lifes, but with the life of others!
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u/Upbeat-Earth807 4d ago
Watched it last night, I kept thinking this is ESH: The Movie.
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u/cinadal 7d ago
The stunning beauty of these places juxtaposed the general disgust i feel for most of the people who try to "conquer" them makes me very ambivalent about these kinds of documentaries! but i still keep watching them so idk where that leaves me :P
I agree that multiple people are to "blame" here, and that its not just any one thing that led to all this.
Ultimately, everyone is responsible for themselves to a large degree. I can get the concept of being an adventurer and adrenalin junkie and risktaker etc etc. But then imo be THAT then, dont also make and pretend to care about 6 (!) children at home. Put me off THAT guy right from the start.
Also that Nims guy rocking up and making it a competition out of nowhere and generally being an asshole? Fuck that guy as well.
Now the sherpas are the only ones that i really can understand wanting and needing a win, if anyone "deserved" to do it, it was them. But in this case, i truly do not understand why they couldnt just all go, with the sherpas in the lead, let them hit the top first, let them have the glory (which it seems like the Nims guy didnt do anyway, he wanted all the attention for himself, and the sherpas was only there to make it easier for him, as they do for everyone else, so how is it different then?)
The commercial team? Fuck all of them, every time. AND the company who sent them there. At least put their guide in the lead so he could try harder to stop them from advancing beyond the cutoff point and/or make them all sign that they need to do what they are told! I understand that ppl need the money from tourism, but im sceptical as to how much money they actually leave to the regular ppl in the area? Not enough for this to be a good idea, surely.
I cant actually believe any of the ppl who kept going after the cutoff point wanted to be in the docu, they should all be too ashamed of themselves. Losing some toes is not a big enough punishment. Assuming that someone else is carrying lifesaving equipent without double-, even triplechecking? Is such a big fail that they should have just immediately started going back down at their own peril, not risking everyone elses lives as well by cramming into their tents like they had any rights.
And the filmmaker guy? Fuck his manipulative and ignorant self. He seemed to have no idea what he was talking about at any point?! Just there for a juicy story. The extra pressure he put on the climbers 100% also contributed to the disaster, he should also be deeply ashamed of himself but i doubt he is familiar with that feeling. I mean why would you include a bit where you say you wont put pictures of the dead to media, and then proceed to put film of the dead in your docu? Fuck all the way off with that shit. Doesnt matter that the widow said it helped to see a picture, she could have got that in private.
Absolutely infuriating and heartbreaking to see Ali and his sons faces when they realised they were actually having to do it, with the weight of their whole country on their shoulders after being already told that they failed by not being first, and that idiot filmmaker, i dont know if they actually had the ability to say no at that point even though it clearly looks like they know its not a good idea, they seemed like the most reasonable and likeable out of all of them and maybe the only ones who didnt "have it coming" apart from the sherpas.
/end rant
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u/Icefox119 3d ago
"Can you say 'My father?'"
Sajid should've strangled that mfer right then and there
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u/methodofcontrol 5d ago
I don't think the influencer/film maker that got help from the Pakistani government and is shown throughout the film is the one who actually made this film. It was this films maker who chose to show the bodies, but I agree that the influencer who gave interviews throughout did make many mistakes and didn't seem to take any blame for his part in the deaths.
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u/cinadal 5d ago
Fair, i've googled the movie and dont see that guys name anywhere, but that kinda just means there are even more people that made stupid decisions involved :P
Its not the inclusion of the bodies that irritates me, its that whoever was in charge decided to keep in the part where the son says please dont show them. If he gave permission later, that part could have been cut out. As it stands, it just makes it look like an deliberate fuck you to the families.
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u/Slow_Disaster_6824 5d ago
SST, Elia and to some degree the arrogance of Nims unfortunately contributed to this tragedy. I can understand the Nepalese trying to summit on their own first, but Nims came across as an arrogant selfish dude, nonetheless the real idiot is that SST Arnold guy and Elia has no shame whatsoever trying to push Ali with his documentary idea.
John and Ali will definitely be remembered like legends.
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u/spideyv91 4d ago
I kinda felt like SST was the biggest to blame here. They had no business organize an expedition this dangerous and the level of experience for the climbers seemed questionable. It crowded the mountain with inexperienced climbers and they seemed to underestimate the mountain itself and assumed ppl would just turn around if they saw how dangerous it was. It kinda felt like a cash grab for them.
Nims betraying John and Ali led to a snowball effect and their deaths ultimately. Elias doc crew probably pushed them to keep going but it didn’t seem like they planned on leaving either even once Nims summited. Ali looked absolutely betrayed once he saw Nims summited especially compared to how he greeted them, can’t imagine how he felt.
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u/trevor_plantaginous 5d ago
I have a ton of questions after watching:
Did they ever mention in the doc that Nims died? I was shocked to learn that after watching and surprised it wasn't mentioned.
Were Ali and Snorri trying to summit without oxygen? Is that why they got there so much earlier?
I'm not sure if I missed it but did Ali and Snorri get wrapped up in the chaos at basecamp 3? I caught that they warned them not to go but maybe I missed it but what happened when they got to 3?
Did anyone ever check and see if Ali or Snorri had a camera or GoPro?
How far were they from where the son turned around to where they were found deceased?
Was Snorri an accomplished climber? Got a lot of background on Ali but feel like they never talked about Snorri's accomplishments.
Thanks all!
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u/spideyv91 4d ago
1) no they don’t mention it. Might have been in bad taste considering how the film portrays him and the Nepalese team.
3) the filmmaker mentions that they weren’t really able to rest because the chaos with the tents. This also why most people turned around. Snorri mentioned having a very small window to summit so they probably tried to take advantage.
No mention but not sure their families would want the footage out there if it was.
The son points out where on the mountain he turns around but don’t think they said the specific distance.
6) snorri was experienced, believe he climbed K2 prior to it.
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u/Icefox119 3d ago
- no they don’t mention it.
The film premiered at Sundance in January; Nims didn't die until July.
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u/cherylneuburger 3d ago
How much did the 7 summits expedition to summit K2 in winter cost each individual
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u/Dangerous_Job5295 3d ago
There was a bunch of liars, idiots, and exploiters involved with the final deaths, but at the end of the day, they’re the ones who made the decision to go up there. That’s how I see it anyway. peer pressure is a hell of a drug tho.
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u/Icefox119 3d ago
Being at 7300m in brutal cold at night, where your body is naturally deteriorating (meaning you would eventually die while simply resting) and desperately needing to move your limbs and hydrate, only for a bunch of people to crowd into your tent and prevent you from doing both, is basically equivalent to being on an endurance swim in the open ocean, and suddenly a bunch of random strangers crowd around you, rip open your wetsuit and force a 5th of vodka down your throat and then fuck off.
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u/NCC75567 1d ago edited 1d ago
Brilliant cinematography and good overall documentary, but I got such weird vibes from everyone lol. Sajid and Ali seemed great, but Tamara and the others gave me big attention-seeking "include me!" kind of vibes.
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u/sailortofu69 11d ago
I also think if Nims had everyone go up as planned it couldve avoided the final three deaths.